Silverjet Second Officer Recruitment

[TurboJ]

I know I’ve over simplified this, but 2 years monitoring seems a very long time to me.

yep, you forgot to mention the wide body heavy jet experience, as well as the transatlantic, trans polar experience, with logging 757/767 P2 time.....

how much advantage is 24 months A/P monitoring actually going to give you over a guy with a new TR,

.........substantially more experience, I would say - you would be an expert at the aircraft systems, the routes, the sim and probably 500hrs or so in the log book......and £31k ish to pay the bills.

TJ

[Thomas coupling]

17p today, flying down in the weeds and no chance of extra lift methinks. Bye bye baby.......
Shouldnt have castigated ken L.

[Dreamshiner]

And the winner of most obscure post on a thread goes to . . . . . . . (drum roll) . . . . . . THE ONE ABOVE

Congratulations

[mightymouse111]

If the aircraft they were going to get to fly to the West Coast have been put on hold, then I presume that the Second officer positions needed to fly there will have also been put on hold.

[Dreamshiner]

I would still be surprised if they didn't hire the cruise pilots for 4 reasons:

a) The main restriction of an airline is rules, regs, etc. Captains aren't in the greatest supply plus they cost a lot so you want to optimise their usefulness. A cruise pilot extends the duty time of the more critical to flight F/O and Capt. Where I currently work a crew of three can have a duty time of up to 15 hours and a crew of 4, 17 hours. As a result and correct me if I'm wrong anyone but potentially SJ's layover time may be reduced if they fly with cruise pilots to current destinations of NY and Dubai. (that may cause a whirlwind on this thread now)

b) You expose someone to the airline industry gently without having to worry about flying a 180k aircraft. Over the two years the cruise pilots will be assessed, maintained in sim landings and licences kept current. The airline can also determine, based on their performance and character how likely they are to be a strong asset in the future. You'd be niave to think any airline does not look at and grade its young pilots for future commands, their work ethic, look at their sickness', demeanour and how they interact with other employees. Silverjet would get to do this over 2 years and cherry pick.

c) Don't quote me but IATA brought in a reg back in September about flights over water at night and a need for a third pilot. North American to European NATS are primarilly an overnight jaunt.

d) When/if they do roll out new routes then they are able to hit the ground running. Plus basic for a FO is £47k and £27k for a cruise pilot.

[no sponsor]

I would doubt S/O would be hired if the longer routes do not materialise. A company which is focusing on cash flow and consolidation will be putting S/O recruitment below other priorities. Do not blow your hard borrowed/earned cash on chasing a 767TR for these guys. Wait and see what will happen over the next 6 months or so.

As for the use of S/O, many ultra-long haul airlines use them, specifically Cathay and SIA. TNT are advertising for 744 S/Os now, which I suspect will be for some very long sectors. An F/O from my airline is about to join Cathay as a S/O on the 777, and he will only be a cruise pilot for the first 18 months, then gain a promotion to a F/O. I suspect he will be bored out of this mind after being a F/O on 737s and ATRs. I think he has around 2500hrs!

As a low houred pilot, you really need to build up experience in all phases of flight, from climb, cruise and descent. Descents and landings are the ones you'll need most practice on; so the more landings the better. This is really best done on short-haul flights, so you can get at least one landing per day, if not more. But of course, you'll take anything you can get, but just don't blow money on a TR without at least working out that if SJ go under, then what are your other options.

[Dreamshiner]

I can only speak for myself nosponsor but I have a 757/767 TR on my licence.

If nobody is hiring FO's to do the numerous t/o's and landings then you got to go with who is hiring. We all have to keep a roof over our heads.

I don't know how airlines or recruitment agencies work but I'd be interested to know if they place more emphasis on 12 months cruise pilot on a widebody trans-atlantic and 1 year FO opposed to 2 years on a ATR/Q400 short hops. I suppose it would depend on what your career aspirations are.

Last time I looked UK based companies looking for FO's were thin pickings except Ryanair and you need to pay for a TR there too.

Granted no hands on flying below 20,000ft but experience watching from the jumpseat beats working in an 9-5 office while holding a fATPL.

You can never get what you want in life, so you make do with what you can. Plus its not always about the quality of the flying, sometimes its about the lifestyle of longhaul vs. shorthaul.

I do echo your sentiments about SJ's position though, will be interesting to hear the financial predicitions in March when they are published.

[littco]

2 Articles in the FT last week and another in the Telegraph today, all hinting at the impending doom of the company. They need a 65% seat occupancy to make a profit and currently running at 60%. Read what you like into this but possibly not an ideal company to go and work for, from what i've read this week it doesn't look good for the company..

[BIG MISTER]

Quote from Silver Jet :-

On behalf of Silverjet I would like to thank you for your application.

Please note we are only able to consider those with a current 767 type rating and those that meet the requirements as advertised. If you do not meet the minimum requirements, I regret to tell you that your application will not be processed further on this occasion. Any future changes to the requirements will be advertised on our website.

For those that have the experience as advertised, thank you for your interest and we will be in contact in due course.

Unquote.......hope this saves some of you sometime !

[JB007]

Take it from me, this deal is cr@p!!!!

The 3rd pilot is a CAA variation required on flights in excess of XYZ hours (Can't remember without getting my Part A out!) in order to gain more flying duty period. In Silverjet's case, at the cheapest way possible! I can see where they are coming from but it ain't a good deal for some poor SO who's paid 30k just so they can stretch these B762's to the US West Coast...

Certainly not an issue when flying to EWR or DXB.

But...

If the longer routes are not happening...then I would guess, the 3rd pilot isn't either...

[Dreamshiner]

As always someone on here reads a post, jumps the gun and goes in both barrels smoking without looking at the thread title or relevance, just because they saw one little comment that pinched a particular nerve ending and the rest mist decended.

What I said wasn't a statement (however your little rant could be justified possibly - and only by IM if it were), it was a question, granted I omitted to use the '?' which I understand has been universally adapted by most of the planet (except the Spanish who insist on turning it upside down).

The question was asked due to a conversation I had with a recruitment consultant who confided that he was not putting any turboprob guys forward for heavy jet jobs (quite why I don't understand but as it was less competition for me I wasn't going to argue why to my own detriment). Therefore I was looking to see if anyone (from personal experience) could back up or quash the premise.

However I do appreciate the condescending and patronising tone of your reply and I'm sure there are a number of cruise pilots out there who find your comments about their job being akin to Microsoft generated frolics equally offensive.

You may want to remove that sizable chip from your shoulder before the draft from your turboprob blows it off. I suggest altering your little blue lever to 'full fine' as this helps ..... so I'm told, I have yet to get to the lesson from Martha King on FSX.

Evident you love flying the Q400/ATR as you moved to India to pursue it. However I defy any newly qualified pilot to turn down a cruise pilot job 'No no, I am waiting for a turboprop job as it will make me infinitessimally a better pilot'.

Sorry to everyone else who has subscribed to this post and who may read it from now on, I advocate keeping threads on topic and get annoyed when they stray. However Flyerguy 'properly' just got on my tits.

Also for any aspiring or newly qualified pilots out there, be aware you will encounter a few people like this who insist that either your ability or morals are lacking for not following a certain path. I suggest you take what you need from what they say and swtich to autopilot for the rest. However ensure that you don't bring out a paper, magazine, novel and/or warm beverage in the process otherwise they will get rather upset.

[dougy24]

Flyer Guy

Question?

Has Flyer Guy actually flown a jet and done any long haul trips? he seems very well imformed as to what cruise pilots may or may not do !!!

Dream shiner.... i totally agree with what you say..and yes maybe the chip on his shoulder does not permit him to climb above FL240 !!

[Mister Geezer]

The Times - 6 Feb

Exclusively business class airline Silverjet plummeted by 23 percent, losing 8.75 pence to 29.25 pence, after the group announced its aircraft were only 54 percent full in January and that it will continue to lose money until the end of next month. Chief executive Lawrence Hunt nonetheless expressed optimism the group can make up January's shortfall in February and March. He said: "The board continues to be confident that Silverjet will achieve its first month of pre-tax profit and be cash generative in March 2008."

FT - 11 Feb

Billionaire UK property developers the Reuben brothers are ditching plans to take an equity stake in Silverjet , the first UK all-business-class airline, after a sharp decline in the company's share price. The brothers agreed last November to a 10 million pound convertible loan to the airline, which could be converted no later than Feb. 11 into equity at 60 pence a share. But with the share price falling on Friday to a new low of 24 pence -- having floated at 112 pence in May 2006 -- the airline is expected to announce on Monday the loan will remain as debt.

Come on folks... as they say you can't polish a turd! The future is hardly rosy for Silverjet, as much as I would like them to succeed!

The deal as a S/O is in all honesty a crap one. No hands on flying at all whilst doing the same if not at best, a very limited selection of routes. The only thing stimulating in the cruise will be reading the woeful tales of the airline industry in the broadsheet newspapers in between fuel checks. All for £28K as well and quite clever from Silverjet’s point of view since in that 2 year period you won't leave since you will be as attractive as a chocolate teapot since your flying skills will be rusty at best! So they get cheap 'labour' for a ‘guaranteed’ two years and you have to be type rated as well. Finally you can guess who devised this cunning scheme - yep the beancounters!

[mightymouse111]

Heard from inside the SJ camp that lots of CVs have gone missing, they have now selected those for interview but apparently lots lost in the system.

[Pick me Flybe!]

why the **** would anyone shell out 25k to get rated on the 767/757 to become a cruise relief pilot for 2 years and only get to fly when the FO wants out of his seat to go for a slash

If your gonna pay for a rating, pay for one where you are gonna get to fly the bloody thing, like Ryanair?

A mate of mine did an ATR rating at exeter for 16k and got a job the day after he finished his course as an fo with air aurigny

[Stpaul]

Agree, if you are going to pay for a rating, do one where you get to fly. BUT, if you already have a 767 rating, limited experience and no job, surely this is an opportunity to get that first step on the ladder.
I understand that they are only interviewing those with a rating, therefore the discussion about whether or not to pay is irrelevant.
It also does not matter what the future of the company is, because some experience and salary is better than none.

[Mister Geezer]

Generally airlines that use cruse pilots often have a fairly diverse network of routes. Eg Cathay... so even though you won't do any flying the difference in routes will provide that much needed stimulus to the work place.

With Silverjet as a Cruise Pilot, you are only probably going to operate on a very small selection of routes (unless they expand significantly). People are talking about experience etc but just what experience are you going to get sat in the cruise doing the same route trip after trip? The only decision you are likely to need to make is do we go left or right to get round that CB?

To sum up - if Silverjet had a diverse route network then it could be an interesting place to be a cruise pilot. Lets look at it from a different way - if you decided to move on from Silverjet imagine how you could describe your current role to your potential employer

• Do the same route or limited selection of routes!
• Potentially rusty flying skills!
• Limited oppertunities for gaining new experience.

Tempting catch for a new employer?

[Dreamshiner]

See this is where this thread should not have went and I apologise to everyone out there who reads this little tet-a-tet.

Only thing that gets on my man boobs more than getting the someone going off on one without just cause or reason is people who insist on breaking down a previous post by copying quotes and attacking it.

I am not applying for Silverjet as I'm already in employment and I don't think leaving my secured 767 job for one not so secured is the right move at present.

If you read my original post again you can see there was no ambiguity its never questioned the competence of turboprop pilots.

I've nothing to apologise for mate except presuming by what you typed as your location was correct.

[Thomas coupling]

There you go: Silverjet in administration as of today. I did say they'd not survivie the year but May is a little early. The excuse is fuel costs. Smoke screen methinks?

[Dreamshiner]

A bit of solidarity for the 12 who were hired only a couple of months ago. Its not an ideal situation, hope it works itself out.

Now another load of pilots on the market this summer, the agencies with be getting excited.