Should low hour pilots start on Turboprops?

[captainyonder]

These days there is a great belief within the wannabe community that Airbus or Boeing are the only ways forward at the end of training. While many new pilots long to get on to a medium jet straight away, is this necessarily healthy? Many old school pilots argue that they started on turboprops and that is where they really learnt their trade.

I'm interested to hear peoples thoughts on this, both wannabes and experienced flight deck. I am very lucky to be in the position to either take a job with a very unfriendly loco (guess who!) on the 737 or fly a turboprop for my first job, and suprisingly at the moment I find myself swaying towards the latter. I can't help thinking that the more hands on approach of turboprop flying will only go to make me a better pilot and I will be taking home just as much money on a prop as I would be on a jet after I've shelled out for my TR.

Your thoughts would be appreciated!

[Re-Heat]

Many old-school pilots started on fast jets, heavy RAF transport aircraft, helicopters, heavy BOAC long-haul jets, BEA heavy turboprops, and a plethora of others besides short-haul turboprops.

It is the variety of backgrounds and experiences that ensure a strong basic standard across all; I am quite sure that if everyone solely had turboprop experience prior to jets, that a great deal of other flying experiences that have a positive contribution would be unnecessarily sacrificed.

Depends what you want and where you will get the best experiences - working as hard as possible to experience more routes, captains and operating conditions might arguably be obtained at Ryanair than a smaller turboprop outfit. Or it might not depending upon your abilities and experiences.

The opinions of any one person are always going to be to justify their individual experiences and perceptions.

[davey147]

As said above, it is a personal decision.

If I was in your possition I would go for the Turboprop job, mainly for the experience, the majority of pilots I have spoken to all say that the fun flying is before you move onto the Jets.

It also depends how old you are I suppose, if your 30+ i'd go with the 737.

My plans are to take the Instructing route, then maybe air taxi or TP, then hopefully on to the jets. I have no motivation to go straight onto jets from my training, I want to enjoy life (we only get one) and experiences. Money isnt everything

[shajeeth]

Starting Off in a Turbo Prop.

Well, I'd say it's better off that Low- Hour Pilots should start off in Turbo Props. The complexity of a Turbo Jet can be really hard to put up with if you are fresh out of a Piston Engine Cockpit. The Props help us grapple it by step, and since it's not as complex as a Turbo Jet, it shall make it easy for us to understand the Mechanism and Operations of a Turbo Jet in no time.

Cheers,
Shajeeth.
(BLUE SKIES.).

[potkettleblack]

Two things spring to mind. Firstly return on investment and secondly should the market implode do you want to be typed on a medium size jet that is readily marketable across the world or on a TP.

Also don't sell yourselves short. My first commercial a/c is a jet and I enjoy flying it. I enjoy going up high and flying a relatively long distance at high speed. Its good to be above most of the weather whereas my other colleagues are dodging CB's etc below me. I enjoy having nice long runways and ILS's to play with. Call me risk averse if you like but I enjoy the simple life. Hell I am not afraid to admit that the auto pilot will do a much better job of flying the aircraft than I ever could. I don't particularly miss the hand flying that I would have gotten if I had gone down the TP route. What I do enjoy however, is the higher pay cheque each month to pay off the investment that I have made in my training. Also the job security of knowing that I am typed on an aircraft that if it all turned to custard I could show my wares across most of the world.

Sure take whatever job comes along first (beggers can't be choosers etc etc) but if moving onto a jet is your ultimate goal then I wouldn't leave it as there is already a long queue of people ahead of you with experience from the low cost carriers that will be building hours and trying to get out. In times of limited jobs they will be way ahead of you.

[berserker]

I say go for the TP.
I am currently flying a 20+ tonne TP, and I love every minute of it.
The pay is not the best, but the challenges of flying into mountanous areas in wintertime and a nice x-wind beats drinking coffee flying at FL350 on your way to just another holiday destination
But in the end, it`s your choice
Good luck!

[PPRuNeUser0165]

I can’t really believe we are having this chat? I mean I thought we are all either aspiring pilots or pilots, and if not actually care enough about the industry to join Prune! Surely if we are all committed to flying and ADDICTED like me then it can’t matter what low houred or any other pilot for that matter starts to fly in! I would be happy crop spraying in Outer Mongolia for sake! I am awaiting a start date for OAT and can't wait! The idea of what I will be flying in 2 years hasn’t crossed my mind and to be honest won’t really care as long as iam flying!
Sorry to rant but going the integrated route you meet alot of people doing the course because daddy has a spare 70 k! If you really want to fly what you fly shouldn’t pose a potential ball ache!!
Good luck all you fellow hard core pilots!!!

[redsnail]

My personal opinion and I've now flown both.

Go for the turboprop job as financially, you're in a more secure position esp if you don't have to pay for the rating. You'll learn a lot more about weather flying, esp in the terminal area than flying a jet. You'll do a lot more sectors (generally) and you'll be exposed to a lot more than with the jet. This is all good experience which will stand you in very good stead for the future.

If your turboprop has glass and FMS etc then you won't miss out much versus the jet.

Hand flying skills are maintained and believe it or not, it's useful.

When you do move to a jet the experience will help greatly. I found that my experience with the t/prop in manky weather translated easily. About the only thing I was challenged with was the FMS as I hadn't used one before. Also, instead of 3 miles a minute, I have to use 6-7 miles a minute. That took all of 30 seconds to get used to.

The future is impossible to predict. You might get laid off just after you start with the jet job and all that's out there is a t/prop job... Also, you might decide you want to fly a corporate jet and the "hands on" experience will definitely help you here.

Experience isn't just only hours. It's being exposed to many different things and learning.

Good luck.

[tom775257]

IMHO take the jet (if there is no other difference in T&C and you have a job secured at the end etc) Jet flying isn't that hard, and will open up much more job opportunities later! So long as you have reasonable capacity and a good pilot I'm sure you would find the jet fine.

Regarding hands on with the jet, depends on the company. My chief pilot would be pissed off if I didn't fly with all automatics/FD off on a regular basis. What trade do you learn on a TP that you don't learn on a jet?!

Cheers.

[Deano777]

Take whatever you're offered, if you're offered both take the jet, it's a no brainer

Captain, if the loco you are on about is the one I am thinking then personally I would rather work in MacDonalds than be exploited by them, at least we would get free burgers (contradicts what I just said but with this carrier it's a different kettle of fish)

[redsnail]

tom,
If your SOPs allow for hands on flying then that's great. As you know, jets don't spend much time in the weather, but, history has shown that wx in the terminal area is what takes them out. I have found that a t/prop pilot has a much more awareness of wx as they are exposed to it a lot more.

Many jet operators SOPs actively discourage hand flying. This is a shame IMHO.

If the original poster has to pay for a rating to fly a jet versus not pay for a rating to fly a t/prop I would suggest he goes for the t/prop job.

[Maude Charlee]

Dear oh dear oh dear. It's about lifestyle folks, not machinery - at least that's what everyone whinges longest and loudest about on the line.

Take whatever offer allows you to enjoy whatever takes your fancy outside of the tube. Personally, I'm a TP operator, soon to be jet, but already wanting back on the TP ASAP because it has a significantly better lifestyle attached to it than the humdrum existence I can expect on my new toy.

As for your jet offer, I wouldn't work for that guy if you offered me a million quid and a no-holds-barred night alone with Kylie!

[Finals19]

Maude Charlee has it in one.

For me, its definitely about lifestyle - thats the key factor in the decision.
In another life, admittedly as Cabin Crew, I experienced long haul flying on jets. Let me tell the uninitiated that it SERIOUSLY SCREWS with your home life...waaay more than S/H flying (be that in TP or jet) Aside from the longhaul issue, I would agree that the nature of TP flying is going to keep you "on your toes" and your hand flying skills sharper (although with the advent of full glass and FMS a la Dash 8 Q400, I wonder if the gap is narrowing?) but thats a personal choice.

I am mid thirties, past 1000hrs in m/e time and converting an ICAO licence. I am most definitely looking at S/H flying once converted, but my take on getting hired at a T/P operator is slightly different to most here. I would see such a move with a decent operator more as a long term career move - captains at certain TP operators can command 60-70K/year and if money isn't the be all and end all, then that's just fine.

[MIKECR]

Maude Charlee,

Would it make a difference if it was Danni instead???

[Orp Tolip]

Can't really argue with many of the comments made so far.
You're lucky to be in the position where you can choose, so choose wisely.
I'n my pre-aviation career we were encouraged by the company to take responsibility for our careers. Thus we were encouraged to request the training we wanted and were supported in our endevours to move onwards and upwards.
If you genuinly have the choice then think about where you want your career to go and where you want to end up and choose accordingly. Plenty of info dotted around this site.
It really is all about lifestyle, but that in itself is a very individual set of criteria, encompassing money, flying time, time away from home, days off, roster stability, career progression opportunities, type of flying, desire to 'see the world', working with a small team, being a small fish in a big sea etc etc etc.
Agree with Redsnaill sort of, although I missed out TP's myself, I did a few years air-taxi and survived. Turbo props will give you more weather experience and possibly a quicker command, though command at Ryanair can be quick I believe.
It may not all work out as you hope, but you really need to think about the future and where you want to end up, and position yourself accordingly.
In this instance I don't think there is a wrong answer, although personally, had I been in your position, would have steered clear of taking on yet more debt (I'm still paying my training off some 6 years after obtaining the frozen ATPL).
Good luck

[Lord Lardy]

I think is the question is should low hour pilots start off on turboprops?

Like redsnail above, I started off on a 20 tonne turboprop. It was the best and hardest experience I have had in my aviation career to date. I did over 3000 hours on one, approximately 1000 in the left seat.

Now flying the airbus for the last number of years. Have to be honest and say that looking back, the turboprop was a dog to fly in comparison. The airbus 320/321 which I'm now on are alot easier to fly. The automation of the jet is fantastic. It's alot easier to control in critical situations i.e Engine failure on take off etc. Having had the experience of two engine failures, cranking down the landing gear by hand, and a couple of flapless landings on the turboprop, I can say that nothing even close to this has happened me since flying the bus of the sky.

So 8000 hours later, what do I think is the hardest to fly. Without question the turboprop. What is the most comfortable to fly? Without any doubt the jet. Reckon my hand flying skills today are considerably less than years ago. But then again, thats what the airbus was built for.

[lovezzin]

shajeeth...''Turbojet''

Turbojet? what the..?

i think you'll fine civil airliners are turbo fans...sorry to be nitty gritty :P but i just spent the last three years getting the differences drilled into me at uni!! so i thought i would point it out LOL

[tom775257]

Redsnail: Thanks for the response, I had not thought about that aspect re: WX. (although I'm meeting more CB's at FL390 than I would like). I remember getting good advice from you when I didn't even have a PPL so people should listen to you. Many thanks in retrospect.

Lord Lardy: An interesting response, I naively thought that a TP would be easier. Live and learn.

All the best.

[Craggenmore]

Should low hour pilots start on Turboprops

.
It depends upon age. If you do do T'props then expect to earn alot less for the years that you are on them, but its good experience and I can spot it in my captains - who has flown them and who has not. I by-passd them, so I earn 45k instead of 25k. Cost the difference up over just 2 years and you have your training costs back.

Many jet operators SOPs actively discourage hand flying. This is a shame IMHO.

If you work out of large airports you aint got no choice but to keep to profile and the automatics do a far better job that we can do - there's no place for larging it at number 6 in the queue at AMS or CDG at 6am and getting it wrong. Its just too inconvenient for all concerned.

[Adios]

Take the turboprop job if you really think you'll enjoy them. Fly them for a year or two then start looking for a jet position. You'll probably find you bypass a certain vulgar Irishman completely this way and have a heck of a lot of fun doing it.