So where are all the jobs then?
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which concord captain was earning bucks and saying dang? And how did he become a concord captain if he thought there would be no radiation in space?
Keep looking for work. It took me four years after qualifying to get my first job and I've gone through quite a few now. The company I was working for went bust during summer 2008 and I've only recently started working again. The shrinkage in aviation means that newbies are up against some very experienced pilots even for quite junior jobs. But from an employers perspective its not always best to go for the bloke with most hours because the salary is more, the likelyhood of them leaving is greater, and sometimes ingrained habits don't fit the new business. So emphasise your flexibility, demonstrate a willingness to be involved, make sure you can live anywhere, and keep sending CV's and making phone calls even if there are no job adverts because the last thing that a company is going to waste money on right now is an advert for a pilots vacancy. Stick on a suit, go visit people - not airlines because they won't be interested, but all the smaller operators.
Also, help out everyone you can because other pilots are not your competition and this industry is a very very small world. During your career, someone, somewhere will help you out in return. So don't s**t on anyone.
Good luck!
Keep looking for work. It took me four years after qualifying to get my first job and I've gone through quite a few now. The company I was working for went bust during summer 2008 and I've only recently started working again. The shrinkage in aviation means that newbies are up against some very experienced pilots even for quite junior jobs. But from an employers perspective its not always best to go for the bloke with most hours because the salary is more, the likelyhood of them leaving is greater, and sometimes ingrained habits don't fit the new business. So emphasise your flexibility, demonstrate a willingness to be involved, make sure you can live anywhere, and keep sending CV's and making phone calls even if there are no job adverts because the last thing that a company is going to waste money on right now is an advert for a pilots vacancy. Stick on a suit, go visit people - not airlines because they won't be interested, but all the smaller operators.
Also, help out everyone you can because other pilots are not your competition and this industry is a very very small world. During your career, someone, somewhere will help you out in return. So don't s**t on anyone.
Good luck!
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You may not like Tom's answer to your question....
.....but it was a correct answer. People do lose hope and forget about a career in aviation.
Not quite sure what sort of answer you were seeking other than a truthful one.
Originally Posted by baz76
Does this mean that people like me who have always wanted to be a pilot (not necessarily airline pilot) loose (sic) hope and forget about it?
Not quite sure what sort of answer you were seeking other than a truthful one.
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people don't lose hope, people are forced to leave and give up.
between:
- having a family and a car, and a normal life ...
OR
-paying a company to work with no life and NO money, and reach 50-60 years and still be poor with no women interested by you.
what do you chose?
between:
- having a family and a car, and a normal life ...
OR
-paying a company to work with no life and NO money, and reach 50-60 years and still be poor with no women interested by you.
what do you chose?
Last edited by batman123; 25th May 2009 at 07:10.
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The industry pay outs
If people continue to pay for the privilege of employment (an obsured concept ), then it appears the best method to aquire a jet/turboprop position is a fat cheque book.
"Oh and its not what you know its who you know". If I could gain a pound for everytime thats been mentioned!!!!!!
"Oh and its not what you know its who you know". If I could gain a pound for everytime thats been mentioned!!!!!!
Last edited by Epic_mg; 22nd May 2009 at 20:49.
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Batman, you're right. Make the best of things. Life's what you make of it.
Epic, I understand you're p!55ed off, I've come accross the type of people you talk about, but really that attitude won't do you any good.
There's alot of new talent out there who can't get a start. It goes with the territory and we knew what we were letting ourselves in for.
Just my 2 cents worth, again
Epic, I understand you're p!55ed off, I've come accross the type of people you talk about, but really that attitude won't do you any good.
There's alot of new talent out there who can't get a start. It goes with the territory and we knew what we were letting ourselves in for.
Just my 2 cents worth, again
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Boys and Girls,
Wake up and smell the coffee. Look around at the current economic climate and the actions of major national carriers.
Voluntary and compulsory redundancy are abound. This will lead to an overspill of qualified, trained and experienced pilots in the workforce. Add to that that many schemes are written to offer new positions to those who have lost their jobs.
The bottom end of the market is fed by the slow movement of pilots between companies and aircraft. That doesn't happen at the moment. People are clinging desperately to their jobs.
If the upswing kicks in I don't think air travel will ever be the same again. With Government taxes making it even more expensive to leave the country plus, when the interest rates start going up along with the fuel price, the price of tickets will also rise. Bigger, longer range aircraft, worse crewing regulations and short rest stops are going to decimate the required number of pilots.
I've been in the industry for 20 years now. I wouldn't recommend it to my son, nor to anyone else.
You pays yer money and takes yer choice.
Wake up and smell the coffee. Look around at the current economic climate and the actions of major national carriers.
Voluntary and compulsory redundancy are abound. This will lead to an overspill of qualified, trained and experienced pilots in the workforce. Add to that that many schemes are written to offer new positions to those who have lost their jobs.
The bottom end of the market is fed by the slow movement of pilots between companies and aircraft. That doesn't happen at the moment. People are clinging desperately to their jobs.
If the upswing kicks in I don't think air travel will ever be the same again. With Government taxes making it even more expensive to leave the country plus, when the interest rates start going up along with the fuel price, the price of tickets will also rise. Bigger, longer range aircraft, worse crewing regulations and short rest stops are going to decimate the required number of pilots.
I've been in the industry for 20 years now. I wouldn't recommend it to my son, nor to anyone else.
You pays yer money and takes yer choice.
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I remember similar posts when I was training in 2001-03 and job hunting in 2003.
Yes experienced pilots are laid off, but some never actually get made redundant and other get in effect early retirement and so are often removed from the pool of qualified pilots out there.
Also the qualified laid off pilots often quickly get taken on by other employers or reemployed by there original carriers, this receives little or no attention from the media or posters.
If you are newly qualified or finishing training keep the faith I suspect that when it does start moving...
As for longer, bigger aircraft, well I think they are more crew intensive if anything. Need to nightstop crews and the longer sectors mean that crews reach their monthly and annual limits with less flights.
Yes experienced pilots are laid off, but some never actually get made redundant and other get in effect early retirement and so are often removed from the pool of qualified pilots out there.
Also the qualified laid off pilots often quickly get taken on by other employers or reemployed by there original carriers, this receives little or no attention from the media or posters.
If you are newly qualified or finishing training keep the faith I suspect that when it does start moving...
As for longer, bigger aircraft, well I think they are more crew intensive if anything. Need to nightstop crews and the longer sectors mean that crews reach their monthly and annual limits with less flights.
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attitude change
First off everyone has to deal with getting on somewhere. Times have been rather tough and airlines have a larger pilot group to recruite from. I think you should change your attitude and stop bitching about how you didn't get picked up right away. Just go with the flow. If you walk into an interview acting like your entitled to a job, you might as well admit to a drinking problem cause no one will higher you.
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Gazeem,
Sorry, but you are living in a dream world if you think that is the case. Although crewing on the 777 or the 744 is at about 11-12 crews per aircraft (soon to be reduced to on average 10-11), the 380 and its stretched brethren will ALL be crewed in exactly the same manner but have more seats and, thus, less regularity. All told, less hulls therefore less pilots. Bad for pilots and, IMHO, bad for passengers as they lose the luxury of regularity.
Add to that the reduction of down route rest times, loss of the 'heavy' crew on many routes and the proliferation of 2 pilot long haul routes and the picture doesn't look too rosy.
The demise of the down route rest times has been going on for years and the CAA CAP restrictions are not about to be changed. Ask anyone who has flown the Globespan JNB route what minimum turnaround can be.
As for longer, bigger aircraft, well I think they are more crew intensive if anything. Need to nightstop crews and the longer sectors mean that crews reach their monthly and annual limits with less flights.
Add to that the reduction of down route rest times, loss of the 'heavy' crew on many routes and the proliferation of 2 pilot long haul routes and the picture doesn't look too rosy.
The demise of the down route rest times has been going on for years and the CAA CAP restrictions are not about to be changed. Ask anyone who has flown the Globespan JNB route what minimum turnaround can be.
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I am a recruiter as well, and most CV go to trash, specially the one from pilots who said who have done "integrated"...
I don' read them anymore, If I see any Oxford, it goes directly to trash and no answer of course!
I don' read them anymore, If I see any Oxford, it goes directly to trash and no answer of course!
dartagnan:
And there I was thinking that it was your CVs that always 'go to trash'.
With your rather staggering claims of weilding great power over wanabe pilots, combined with a blatantly vindictive crusade against integrated-trained pilots, this appears to be a classic case of 'how the persecuted persecute.'
Or possibly delusional dreams of grandeur and power? I must admit I had to re-read this rather unbelievable post many times to check that I hadn't misunderstood your English. Then I checked it wasn't 1st April...
Your moaning posts seldom fail to irritate, but this one catapults you into a whole new league.
And there I was thinking that it was your CVs that always 'go to trash'.
With your rather staggering claims of weilding great power over wanabe pilots, combined with a blatantly vindictive crusade against integrated-trained pilots, this appears to be a classic case of 'how the persecuted persecute.'
Or possibly delusional dreams of grandeur and power? I must admit I had to re-read this rather unbelievable post many times to check that I hadn't misunderstood your English. Then I checked it wasn't 1st April...
Your moaning posts seldom fail to irritate, but this one catapults you into a whole new league.
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Mike, I am confident 'Dartagnan' has never even glanced forward of the cockpit door!
If I was a betting man, I'd reckon he is purely voicing frustration with his own untenable position. Perhaps an evening on MS FS might quench his thirst! More, if he gets dressed up in some gold bars for an added dose of reality. His 'Back patted', he could then head down to 'Bar Med' on Tuesday and see if he can pick up a young impressionable lovely!
If I was a betting man, I'd reckon he is purely voicing frustration with his own untenable position. Perhaps an evening on MS FS might quench his thirst! More, if he gets dressed up in some gold bars for an added dose of reality. His 'Back patted', he could then head down to 'Bar Med' on Tuesday and see if he can pick up a young impressionable lovely!
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give up
I have 16000 hours airline flying around the world. The job sucks and If I were you I would definately give it up. I have the Uk ATPL first time pass. Means jack.
The job sucks and just find another profession and do the flying part time.
I have a son and I will not be recommending a career in the aviation industry but yes I would teach him to fly for fun.
Good luck
The job sucks and just find another profession and do the flying part time.
I have a son and I will not be recommending a career in the aviation industry but yes I would teach him to fly for fun.
Good luck
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PC-12 pilots
It's true.... times are very tough out there but if you are looking to relocate abroad things are "less bad". I'm looking for a PC-12 pilot w/ >800h experience for a 12 month locate in Asia should anyone know of anyone.