Angry Post
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Angry Post
I have never used this website personally but my partner uses it frequently and up until now I have never been interested but it’s the only way I’m going to express my opinion about the whole aviation industry.
My partner spent 65,000 pounds, as I’m sure many other people have too if not more and he has applied for more jobs than I can remember but he is getting nowhere fast and he has been fully qualified since July 2006. How are all these pilots supposed to get jobs when the websites are all down so making it impossible to fill out an application? Also airlines that just don’t respond to applications just to say that it wasn’t successful, is this really too much to ask, you know for a bit of courtesy!!
I’m sure everybody can agree that it is extremely stressful trying to get a job at the best of times but when you don’t get one after spending so much money to train (and it’s not easy), my god what a kick in the teeth!
My partner is under a great deal of stress and I appreciate that others are as well but it’s the wives and families that suffer too.
My anger is aimed at the airlines here and I feel so sorry for the other poor sods that are in the same position as my partner, I also feel sorry for their families having to deal with the stress also.
What is needed? A golden handshake maybe, would this make a difference? Or do you have to be a celebrity like Will Carling to fly for an airline?
What the aviation authority should also think of is the length of time before the IR etc expires. If a pilot doesn’t get a job within a year then it costs up to an extra 5,000 approx to renew these. Honestly this is not possible when you have no income to pay for such things!
Feel free to add comments but I’m sure if the comments come from a person at an airline it will all be excuses and crap. Sorry but my partner is 34 years old and is a lot more mature than some of these younger pilots who get in because their father or family members work for the airline. Honestly!
Airlines say that you have to have a certain amount of experience to get a job but how can you do that when you don’t get the opportunity to gain experience? Surely this doesn’t take a genius to work out!!!!
I pray for the day that there is a shortage of pilots and the airlines then need to call upon people with low hours begging them to fly their planes. I hope everyone will be in the position to not bother returning his or her calls!! If Ryan Air can afford to take on pilots with 250 hours why can’t any other airline? At least O’Leary gives you lot a chance…if you’ve got 20K that is….
Good luck boys and girls!
My partner spent 65,000 pounds, as I’m sure many other people have too if not more and he has applied for more jobs than I can remember but he is getting nowhere fast and he has been fully qualified since July 2006. How are all these pilots supposed to get jobs when the websites are all down so making it impossible to fill out an application? Also airlines that just don’t respond to applications just to say that it wasn’t successful, is this really too much to ask, you know for a bit of courtesy!!
I’m sure everybody can agree that it is extremely stressful trying to get a job at the best of times but when you don’t get one after spending so much money to train (and it’s not easy), my god what a kick in the teeth!
My partner is under a great deal of stress and I appreciate that others are as well but it’s the wives and families that suffer too.
My anger is aimed at the airlines here and I feel so sorry for the other poor sods that are in the same position as my partner, I also feel sorry for their families having to deal with the stress also.
What is needed? A golden handshake maybe, would this make a difference? Or do you have to be a celebrity like Will Carling to fly for an airline?
What the aviation authority should also think of is the length of time before the IR etc expires. If a pilot doesn’t get a job within a year then it costs up to an extra 5,000 approx to renew these. Honestly this is not possible when you have no income to pay for such things!
Feel free to add comments but I’m sure if the comments come from a person at an airline it will all be excuses and crap. Sorry but my partner is 34 years old and is a lot more mature than some of these younger pilots who get in because their father or family members work for the airline. Honestly!
Airlines say that you have to have a certain amount of experience to get a job but how can you do that when you don’t get the opportunity to gain experience? Surely this doesn’t take a genius to work out!!!!
I pray for the day that there is a shortage of pilots and the airlines then need to call upon people with low hours begging them to fly their planes. I hope everyone will be in the position to not bother returning his or her calls!! If Ryan Air can afford to take on pilots with 250 hours why can’t any other airline? At least O’Leary gives you lot a chance…if you’ve got 20K that is….
Good luck boys and girls!
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Sorry to hear about that. However he did pass in July 06, which can be regarded as not so long ago. Keep knocking away and one door will open 
Has he had a sniff anywhere? interviews etc? Or is it a case of just direct no? Maybe a rethink in approach is required if he hasn't had any sniffs.
Has he had a sniff anywhere? interviews etc? Or is it a case of just direct no? Maybe a rethink in approach is required if he hasn't had any sniffs.
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First of all, I am very sorry to hear about all the stress and anguish this is obviously causing you and your partner. It is a frustrating experience spending a lot of hard earned cash on your training and then find out that a job is not waiting for you at the end of it all. But without me sounding like I intentionally want to rub salt in the wound; this is nothing new!
I am not an airline pilot, I am currently completing my CPL and will shortly be starting the IR course. I am loving every minute of my training, however not one day goes by where I shed a little bit of anxiety about what will happen when it is all over. I have a wife, who is pregnant, a mortgage and all the other good things that go with family life. I have been honest and have told everyone that is near and dear to me that there is every possibility that I will not walk into a Turboprop or Jet job with a measily 250 hours. And if that is the case, well bugger it, I'll just have to get on with it. Plan B, as they say!
One of the most important things that I was always told that if you don't get the dream job, you need to stay in aviation and make it happen. Maybe do an instructors rating. You will be among pilots every day, you will be gaining hours and experience. Fair enough, the pay is crap, but you are flying. It gives you an opportunity to network. I can count at least 5 people that I know who landed airline jobs from being instructors or working at a flying club. You would be amazed at the amount of people from various backgrounds that you can meet at these places!
Your profile says that you live in the Stansted area. Get your partner to visit various charter / air taxi companies that operate in the South East. There are bloody loads of them. Ask them about the possibility of being a safety pilot. He won't be paid and he won't be able to log the hours. But it is experience, it shows he is proactive and it looks good on the cv. And it could lead to something. There is also the chance of glider towing, dropping sky divers - all things that can be done with a CPL. There are so many of airfields offering this in the South-East. If it were me, I'd go round all of them - continually! It shows the right attitude.
What about trying to work for an airline, maybe in Ops, rostering, throwing the luggage onto the plane even. He would have one foot in the door doing this, it would help with the networking and getting his face known. Showing a bit of enthusiasm and willingness to press on when things don't go to plan often pays in the end - well so I'm told.
So best of luck to you both, stay positive, I really think it will happen.
I am not an airline pilot, I am currently completing my CPL and will shortly be starting the IR course. I am loving every minute of my training, however not one day goes by where I shed a little bit of anxiety about what will happen when it is all over. I have a wife, who is pregnant, a mortgage and all the other good things that go with family life. I have been honest and have told everyone that is near and dear to me that there is every possibility that I will not walk into a Turboprop or Jet job with a measily 250 hours. And if that is the case, well bugger it, I'll just have to get on with it. Plan B, as they say!
One of the most important things that I was always told that if you don't get the dream job, you need to stay in aviation and make it happen. Maybe do an instructors rating. You will be among pilots every day, you will be gaining hours and experience. Fair enough, the pay is crap, but you are flying. It gives you an opportunity to network. I can count at least 5 people that I know who landed airline jobs from being instructors or working at a flying club. You would be amazed at the amount of people from various backgrounds that you can meet at these places!
Your profile says that you live in the Stansted area. Get your partner to visit various charter / air taxi companies that operate in the South East. There are bloody loads of them. Ask them about the possibility of being a safety pilot. He won't be paid and he won't be able to log the hours. But it is experience, it shows he is proactive and it looks good on the cv. And it could lead to something. There is also the chance of glider towing, dropping sky divers - all things that can be done with a CPL. There are so many of airfields offering this in the South-East. If it were me, I'd go round all of them - continually! It shows the right attitude.
What about trying to work for an airline, maybe in Ops, rostering, throwing the luggage onto the plane even. He would have one foot in the door doing this, it would help with the networking and getting his face known. Showing a bit of enthusiasm and willingness to press on when things don't go to plan often pays in the end - well so I'm told.
So best of luck to you both, stay positive, I really think it will happen.
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I can obviously empathize with you and with your partner even more,however thats the deal with all freshly qualified pilots,it has become even worse in the past few years since alot of pilots are willing to self fund their own type,thus giving the airlines good reason to request it so.
I finished my training up to MCC in July 2006 and was and still am in no position to fund a type rating, only last week have i signed a contract after a long stint as a professional CV dispatcher.
Just a thought...has your partner been probably aiming to high in his job search or limiting his options to the UK market.? i used to apply for anyjob from small turbo prop operators to huge airlines.
Just hang in there and good luck.
P.S. i found www.ppjn.com to be a lifesaver.
I finished my training up to MCC in July 2006 and was and still am in no position to fund a type rating, only last week have i signed a contract after a long stint as a professional CV dispatcher.
Just a thought...has your partner been probably aiming to high in his job search or limiting his options to the UK market.? i used to apply for anyjob from small turbo prop operators to huge airlines.
Just hang in there and good luck.
P.S. i found www.ppjn.com to be a lifesaver.
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Thank you to you all for your replys. He has tried to find a job with out paying for the training but has since given up and he recently applied to Ryan Air. He has tried all walks of life not just the big jets. Infact he recently went down to Southend Airport and walked into the Airlines offices..Most were polite but someone was quite rude to him...He went to one called TransEuro which have small 5 seater planes but even they wanted 700 hours...It seenms the only winners are the flight schools
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There is no suprise that you can descend into negativity about the whole aviation industry when things like this occur. And as hard as it might be, it is important to stay positive. I don't think I am talking out of my ass when I say negative people find it harder to progress. That is not an aviation slant, that is life. I experienced it in my previous career, and it is very evident in the new path that I have chosen to follow. It is not a dig, I know it is very easy to slip into that frame of mind when things aren't working out as intended. However letting yourself wollow in self pitty gets you no where. I hope it works out for you both and your husband gets his break. Be positive!
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I understand completely, it can get very depressing after several months of no flying and no prospects i was in a similar boat, it is very easy to say stay positive but actually living it and experiening it is a different ball game. However, saying that you do have to keep going, keep trying everything, look at aerial photography firms thats where i got my first break. Some will pay fairly well and you'll get some amazing experiences. Apart from that there's very little else one can say other than we're all in the same boat, it's a git of an industry but there it is!!!
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Just because you have all the qualifications doesn't mean that an airline owes you a job. There are hundreds if not thousands of people in the same boat. Obviously the airlines can be picky on who they employ just like any business. Getting the fATPL CPL/IR is only just the start of the battle. Posts like this really get up my nose, its market forces love, with a glut of qualified pilots an fATPL is not a golden ticket for a jet job. If it was everyone would be doing it!
Last edited by smith; 17th Feb 2007 at 14:15. Reason: spelling mistake
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Dear Madam,
First flight as a trainee at 26. First job as a pilot at 34. I'm now 37. In the meantime, like many, I had to struggle with the ups and downs of life, doing sh**ty jobs striving to keep licenses current, undergoing the severe critics of the entourage according to which I was just waisting the household funds, doing only one or two flight a year because of the limited means, applying everywhere I could (that costs money too!!). And had to go to africa to finally get some experience with the prospect of being interesting for european airlines some day. Mortgage still has to be payed but given the salary low level, asked for a stand by period to the bank which has been kind enough to grant it for limited periods that have to renewed on regular basis. Tell me about stress !!! yeah ! That's damn hard!
Not mentionning people who don't know anything about the subject and dare describe you as a looser, since they could have observed the young age of some copilots they happen to have seen in some low cost airline cockpits !!!
Don't get me wrong. I am not bitter. I just want to point out that this is not an easy way, and the strengh you need to face all this lies in knowing what you (your husband) want ultimately and when you agree to go that way, then give him maximum support. Ranting against the system ain't bring anything positive. Keep your enegy to develop resilience against adversity, and be positive. Be totally committed to the job hunting. Then it will happen.
All the best
bleeds
First flight as a trainee at 26. First job as a pilot at 34. I'm now 37. In the meantime, like many, I had to struggle with the ups and downs of life, doing sh**ty jobs striving to keep licenses current, undergoing the severe critics of the entourage according to which I was just waisting the household funds, doing only one or two flight a year because of the limited means, applying everywhere I could (that costs money too!!). And had to go to africa to finally get some experience with the prospect of being interesting for european airlines some day. Mortgage still has to be payed but given the salary low level, asked for a stand by period to the bank which has been kind enough to grant it for limited periods that have to renewed on regular basis. Tell me about stress !!! yeah ! That's damn hard!
Not mentionning people who don't know anything about the subject and dare describe you as a looser, since they could have observed the young age of some copilots they happen to have seen in some low cost airline cockpits !!!
Don't get me wrong. I am not bitter. I just want to point out that this is not an easy way, and the strengh you need to face all this lies in knowing what you (your husband) want ultimately and when you agree to go that way, then give him maximum support. Ranting against the system ain't bring anything positive. Keep your enegy to develop resilience against adversity, and be positive. Be totally committed to the job hunting. Then it will happen.
All the best
bleeds
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SMITH, If posts like these get up your nose, don't reply to them. There is nothing like stating the obvious. Everyone realises it's hard, however saying that people moaning annoys you just adds to their anger!
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Smith ,i agree that no one owes anyone a job,however you must understand ones frustration.
After spending all that time and money towards getting your blue book,the least one must expect is a chance,surely getting your blue book is enough proof of ones dedication and reliability
For some reason when a doctor or a lawyer graduates he/ she is not driven to the point of despair and does not have to beg for a first job wherever it is.
you have to admit that one of the reasons that most fresh pilots are faced with this situation is due to the airlines realising that they will always get what they demand, as the saying goes ''beggars cant be choosers'' & its attitudes like yours that gives airlines the go ahead to behave such
After spending all that time and money towards getting your blue book,the least one must expect is a chance,surely getting your blue book is enough proof of ones dedication and reliability
For some reason when a doctor or a lawyer graduates he/ she is not driven to the point of despair and does not have to beg for a first job wherever it is.
you have to admit that one of the reasons that most fresh pilots are faced with this situation is due to the airlines realising that they will always get what they demand, as the saying goes ''beggars cant be choosers'' & its attitudes like yours that gives airlines the go ahead to behave such
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£500???
How you work this £500 out...£300 per hour for flight...approach fee landing fee etc...
so after not doing mullti IR flying for a year you can jump back in the plane and do it all first time with no practice in SIM or practice flights...you must be good....maybe not £5000 but dont think an hour and half of flying...
This is another reason your poor sod husband gets no job....discrimination is too much...French Only?? I speak blardy French can I have job please!
Stopped hiring new F/O's for the 2007 season. Planning to recruit about 15 F/Os and 15 captains (french only) for creating the new air france low cost transavia based at LFPO. 15/Feb/07
so after not doing mullti IR flying for a year you can jump back in the plane and do it all first time with no practice in SIM or practice flights...you must be good....maybe not £5000 but dont think an hour and half of flying...
This is another reason your poor sod husband gets no job....discrimination is too much...French Only?? I speak blardy French can I have job please!
Stopped hiring new F/O's for the 2007 season. Planning to recruit about 15 F/Os and 15 captains (french only) for creating the new air france low cost transavia based at LFPO. 15/Feb/07
Last edited by A340rider; 17th Feb 2007 at 15:34.
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I have a job, but I would be mortified if my girlfriend/wife wrote such a thread about me.
He is in the same boat as many, we all had to go through hard times to get where we are, and that is true of any job, be it flying or something else.
Accept it, stay motivated and remember your husband is not the first who is experiencing this and nor will he be the last.
He is in the same boat as many, we all had to go through hard times to get where we are, and that is true of any job, be it flying or something else.
Accept it, stay motivated and remember your husband is not the first who is experiencing this and nor will he be the last.
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Think Laterally
Yes it is a huge investment - there are people who have spent 90K with no job.
Owing to financial issues including unemployment, rule changes from national to JAR, depressed airline market, etc, I took over 8 years to get a CPL/IR. Granted that was in the old days (1990s) when you had to get a BCPL then do 700 hrs before sitting CPL exams then build more time to do ATPL (CAA got threee exam fees that way!). Now you can get a frozen ATPL with only 250hrs. That's actually a lot faster and cheaper than the old system but you end up with a lot less experience.
Do not rule out Flying Instruction as an excellent way to develop flying skills (not only in others!). "OK, but why spend 6k when I can get a type rating with 20k......?", lots of wannabees ask.
Be careful what you hope for - flying a 737 five times a day as an FO with zero time on the ground to even visit "duty free shops" during turnarounds, early starts, late finishes, roster changes, and no g-tee'd weekends off, is not as glamorous as some people imagine! Lot's of airline pilots dream of actual hands on flying. With many Company SOPs now demanding autopilot use they tend to do most of the latter in a sim once a year! A long haul pilot might only get 2 landings a a month.
The industry is changing - there are instructor jobs out there offering GBP40k salaries and no i don't mean just the highly experienced Twin IR Oxford/CTC/Cabair postions.
Flying is something you must stay current on or interviewers will think you're not committed enough and you will feel less able to do a sim ride. Get him airborne at least once a month. If that is out of reach finacially, make sure he at least practices on MS Flight Sim or Xplane things like ILS approaches to minima.
Other job options options include local flying club ferry flying, freight flying with light twins, relief work in Africa on turbine aeroplanes, etc etc....
Above all don't give up without exploring ALL the options! All the best!
Owing to financial issues including unemployment, rule changes from national to JAR, depressed airline market, etc, I took over 8 years to get a CPL/IR. Granted that was in the old days (1990s) when you had to get a BCPL then do 700 hrs before sitting CPL exams then build more time to do ATPL (CAA got threee exam fees that way!). Now you can get a frozen ATPL with only 250hrs. That's actually a lot faster and cheaper than the old system but you end up with a lot less experience.
Do not rule out Flying Instruction as an excellent way to develop flying skills (not only in others!). "OK, but why spend 6k when I can get a type rating with 20k......?", lots of wannabees ask.
Be careful what you hope for - flying a 737 five times a day as an FO with zero time on the ground to even visit "duty free shops" during turnarounds, early starts, late finishes, roster changes, and no g-tee'd weekends off, is not as glamorous as some people imagine! Lot's of airline pilots dream of actual hands on flying. With many Company SOPs now demanding autopilot use they tend to do most of the latter in a sim once a year! A long haul pilot might only get 2 landings a a month.
The industry is changing - there are instructor jobs out there offering GBP40k salaries and no i don't mean just the highly experienced Twin IR Oxford/CTC/Cabair postions.
Flying is something you must stay current on or interviewers will think you're not committed enough and you will feel less able to do a sim ride. Get him airborne at least once a month. If that is out of reach finacially, make sure he at least practices on MS Flight Sim or Xplane things like ILS approaches to minima.
Other job options options include local flying club ferry flying, freight flying with light twins, relief work in Africa on turbine aeroplanes, etc etc....
Above all don't give up without exploring ALL the options! All the best!