The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.
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Does anybody know what prices they are going to quoting for the renewals yet? Because unless they offer it at least at cost to the unfortunate cadets who are in this position, I think they are showing themselves yet again to be the money grabbing cooperation that they really are. Considering that are partly to blame for the situation that these cadets are in.
Are cadets renewing their MEPs as well?
The other question is that as I am led to believe that the contract only states that they have to keep you in the holding pool for up to a year does anyone know what will happen after the 12 months of swimming are up?
Are cadets renewing their MEPs as well?
The other question is that as I am led to believe that the contract only states that they have to keep you in the holding pool for up to a year does anyone know what will happen after the 12 months of swimming are up?
Smell the coffee people - some of us have been grinding it for well over a year now.
Dozens and dozens of new entrants to the pool each month. NO permanent jobs on the horizon. IR's lapsing and sim skills rusting. It can only end in one mess and there was never anything in the brochure about a job or maintaining currency.
The burden of risk was moved from the airlines to the wannabes and the mechanism was CTC.
Like rampant house prices - everybody won until the music stopped.
WWW
Dozens and dozens of new entrants to the pool each month. NO permanent jobs on the horizon. IR's lapsing and sim skills rusting. It can only end in one mess and there was never anything in the brochure about a job or maintaining currency.
The burden of risk was moved from the airlines to the wannabes and the mechanism was CTC.
Like rampant house prices - everybody won until the music stopped.
WWW
The question I would ask is what would the benefit be to CTC of dropping people from the hold pool after x months? Even if the pool size was becoming unmanageable, it doesn't alter the statistics:
Cadet dropped from hold pool = cadet not placed, statistics look worse.
Cadet kept in ever-increasing hold pool = cadet still not placed, but still in hold pool so eventually when they are 'placed' (on FlexiCrew or whatever), the statistics look slightly better and CTC save face.
Either way, they already have your "bond" in their bank account by that point, so they don't appear to stand to lose anything by keeping you in the hold pool and appearing to try to place you; likewise, if they ditch you after x months, it might put potential future applicants off and damage the statistics.
The question is how big will the hold pool grow before it really does become unmanageable? I, for one, am glad I'm well out of there.
Cadet dropped from hold pool = cadet not placed, statistics look worse.
Cadet kept in ever-increasing hold pool = cadet still not placed, but still in hold pool so eventually when they are 'placed' (on FlexiCrew or whatever), the statistics look slightly better and CTC save face.
Either way, they already have your "bond" in their bank account by that point, so they don't appear to stand to lose anything by keeping you in the hold pool and appearing to try to place you; likewise, if they ditch you after x months, it might put potential future applicants off and damage the statistics.
The question is how big will the hold pool grow before it really does become unmanageable? I, for one, am glad I'm well out of there.
Last edited by Zippy Monster; 15th Jun 2009 at 16:21. Reason: First part removed, to be on the safe side...
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I don’t know about the contracts for the ATP cadets, they may be different.
But ever since CTC went integrated they have appeared to be moving away from what they were renowned and respected for and towards the larger scale pilot farm similar to OAT where provided you can afforded the cost then you are in. A concern that was prominent with the cadets even in NZ when iCP was introduced.
As for getting rid of cadets, I do agree with Zippy Monster. However, my concern would be that they introduce a change of priority in the cadet placement pool if people have been in the pool over 12 months. Have any of the cadets had anything in writing about this perhaps in one of their HoW updates? If not, perhaps someone on the staff could clarify the situation via a company e-mail to help ease the stress of holding with a £80 grand plus debt whilst on jobseekers.
Of course, CTC may have some dignity and pride left and be fair to their cadets, considering as I gather, the cadets are not customers
But as CTC are now making them pay for renewals I personally wouldn’t trust any of them as far as I can throw them.I'm starting to think perhaps Rob Wren was right to leave as I gatrhered he left because he didn't like the direction where CTC where going (although that is a Clearways rumour).
But ever since CTC went integrated they have appeared to be moving away from what they were renowned and respected for and towards the larger scale pilot farm similar to OAT where provided you can afforded the cost then you are in. A concern that was prominent with the cadets even in NZ when iCP was introduced.
As for getting rid of cadets, I do agree with Zippy Monster. However, my concern would be that they introduce a change of priority in the cadet placement pool if people have been in the pool over 12 months. Have any of the cadets had anything in writing about this perhaps in one of their HoW updates? If not, perhaps someone on the staff could clarify the situation via a company e-mail to help ease the stress of holding with a £80 grand plus debt whilst on jobseekers.
Of course, CTC may have some dignity and pride left and be fair to their cadets, considering as I gather, the cadets are not customers
But as CTC are now making them pay for renewals I personally wouldn’t trust any of them as far as I can throw them.I'm starting to think perhaps Rob Wren was right to leave as I gatrhered he left because he didn't like the direction where CTC where going (although that is a Clearways rumour).
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Every 12 months it needs revalidating. So has anyone worked out why contractually ATP trainees might be able to stay longer in the hold pool than 12 months but Wings trainees can't?
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Not sure if a public forum is the best place to discuss the finer points of the contract. Not only is it technically in breach of terms&conditions, but gives those it does not affect more reason to stick their beak in.
The CTC forum is the place for it - there it will be viewed by those who may be able to explain or comment constructively.
The CTC forum is the place for it - there it will be viewed by those who may be able to explain or comment constructively.
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Anyone paying 100k+ would be right to investigate what their likely employment prospects are at the end of it ?
At the moment it sounds like even CTC graduates are still struggling to get placed with airlines ? A real shame - as even 2 or 3 years ago CTC seemed to be a sure-fire route to becoming a first officer, if you got past selection...
Though it would be interesting to hear some confirmation / facts and opinions regarding the current situation for newly graduated CTC cadets ? Unfortuantly if the world and airline economy is in recision then they cant force airlines to take their pilots ?
At the moment it sounds like even CTC graduates are still struggling to get placed with airlines ? A real shame - as even 2 or 3 years ago CTC seemed to be a sure-fire route to becoming a first officer, if you got past selection...
Though it would be interesting to hear some confirmation / facts and opinions regarding the current situation for newly graduated CTC cadets ? Unfortuantly if the world and airline economy is in recision then they cant force airlines to take their pilots ?
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but gives those it does not affect more reason to stick their beak in.
Though it would be interesting to hear some confirmation / facts and opinions regarding the current situation for newly graduated CTC cadets
The vast majority of those placed for the summer will be backstroking in the pool again come October. The potential size of the pool by March 2010 is well into the hundreds.
Check the smallprint. Nothing is guaranteed and nobody has to keep you current. The burden of risk is firmly on the cadet.
WWW
Check the smallprint. Nothing is guaranteed and nobody has to keep you current. The burden of risk is firmly on the cadet.
WWW
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In reply to Mister McDoo,
I believe that here is the best place to discuss this issue as it not only effects all of the current cadets (holding or otherwise) BUT it also effects anyone considering CTC either for the ATP scheme and it most defiantly effects those youngsters out there who are considering putting their parents house at risk for the Ab-Initio entry.
Otherwise the ONLY way for the potential cadets to realise the potential risk is to pay and then pass the selection procedure.
If the staff at CTC are anything like they used to be when I was there, they would have already have seen these concerns on this thread. Let us hope that there is an answer soon through the official channels or there are going to be a lot of worried cadets.
I believe that here is the best place to discuss this issue as it not only effects all of the current cadets (holding or otherwise) BUT it also effects anyone considering CTC either for the ATP scheme and it most defiantly effects those youngsters out there who are considering putting their parents house at risk for the Ab-Initio entry.
Otherwise the ONLY way for the potential cadets to realise the potential risk is to pay and then pass the selection procedure.
If the staff at CTC are anything like they used to be when I was there, they would have already have seen these concerns on this thread. Let us hope that there is an answer soon through the official channels or there are going to be a lot of worried cadets.
Let us hope that there is an answer soon through the official channels or there are going to be a lot of worried cadets.
Certainly when I was there, getting a straight answer to anything through official channels was pretty difficult.
I agree with the points about discussing stuff here. It's not much use on the CTC forum because relatively few people see it / bother to visit; also, those that are still on the course may be reluctant to speak their minds for fear of 'rocking the boat', so to speak. The same people who moderate that forum have the responsibility for placement with an airline, remember...
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getting a straight answer to anything through official channels was pretty difficult.
I've generally found since my first day at the selection process that trying to get a straight answer out of the management is a futile exercise.
ultimately its the pilot who needs to convince the airlines that they should employ them
What exactly is your point?
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Originally Posted by ScottFlyer
Good point Zippy but ultimately you, nor I, know the details of the staff laid off. Maybe they were 50-60 year olds who thought that it might be a good time for early retirement or maybe decided that a redundancy package was best for them based on factors XYZ in their life.
They weren't 50 or 60 year olds, they were miles away from retirement and the only reason they were laid off was financial motivation.
If you read these forums and this thread, you'd find quite a bit of information about them...including some posts from those that were actually laid off.
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I think we can all agree that the cadets laid off by Monarch and Easyjet were not 50-60 years of age...luckily most did find alternative employments, with and without the help of CTC.
The pool is over 6 months worth of cadets deep and it's getting deeper, now where did I pack that life raft?
The pool is over 6 months worth of cadets deep and it's getting deeper, now where did I pack that life raft?
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ScottFlyer you are in for one hell of a nasty surprise in 2-3 years. What on Earth are you basing your prediction on? You are like a bulls*it sponge, you just soak it up. As always, nothing against CTC but get real, you aren't as smart as you think.
You need to see a shrink.
You really think you have done well don't you? YOU ARE IN FOR NASTY SURPRISE fella. I am sorry but I haven't seen anyone so foolish on these threads in such a long time. You aren't even being optimistic you are delusional, insane and possibly on here to annoy people. I can't believe we missed it all - ScottFlyer has found the answer to becoming a pilot!
So according to you there is a pilot shortage looming, the CTC cadets laid off after 6 months were all in their 50s or 60s and it is just a case of wowing in the interview to secure a pilot position. How about getting the interview in the first place? How about passing the TR? How about getting the money in the first place to train? How about having the courage/stupidity to train right now given the economic climate?
No wonder the Labour party might actually get voted back in with people like this in our country. FOOL.
as in 2-3 years there will be a shortage of pilots no doubt
From past experience interviews are one mechanism. It is here that the employee has the chance to, as they say, wow the employer.
So according to you there is a pilot shortage looming, the CTC cadets laid off after 6 months were all in their 50s or 60s and it is just a case of wowing in the interview to secure a pilot position. How about getting the interview in the first place? How about passing the TR? How about getting the money in the first place to train? How about having the courage/stupidity to train right now given the economic climate?
No wonder the Labour party might actually get voted back in with people like this in our country. FOOL.
Last edited by TheBeak; 20th Jun 2009 at 07:32.
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Pool is somewhere around 80 at the moment, job prospects for the foreseeable future are far from good.
CTC are entitled to limit your time in the pool to 12 months, although it has yet to happen, is this to be expected soon?
CTC are entitled to limit your time in the pool to 12 months, although it has yet to happen, is this to be expected soon?