mattyh1986

Please don't reply telling me I'm stupid and naive and uninformed and im going to destroy mine and everybody's lives if I progress with CTC. I'm not saying that what your saying is wrong and you have some vaild points and its very important anybody considering an FTO gets as much information as possible in order to make an informed decision, its why Im on this forum and its why others come on this forum. (However this is still a Rumour network not fact)

It has been boldly highlighted that its a VERY risky game at the moment, lets leave it at that and trust that everybody understands.

RobStob

Exactly 99.

I wasn't even approached about my finance until after selection, so how on earth did it have any bearing on whether I got in or not? There were only 4 of us remaining after the maths/aptitude tests alone, which was hardly influenced by my financial background. 3 of us passed interviews, and only I passed the sim assessment. TheBeak, you have some very valuable and level-headed advice, but I have to completely refute your sugestion that financial status dictates who is offered a place. I could credit that if they queried it during selection, but they just don't. That's not me being arogant or exhibiting naivety, just outlining how they are approaching selection, from someone who has recently gone through the process. Also, there were people in far, far better financial status than me at selection who didn't get through.

Oh, and second that post, Chilli! I didn't see your post when I wrote mine! Spot on, mate.

One9iner

Very well put Chilli Corneto.

TheBeak

99jolegg maybe you should be a in poilitics or journalism hat I actually said was:

not just:

And who said I trained with CTC? I have referenced my posts throughout to ALL FTOs. It isn't just CTC at all, it's all FTOs, FTE were probably the most salesy I dealt with of all as it happens. You go and enjoy your training and if CTC or any other FTO wont filter out the crap at least the banks will filter out some.

That's all, good luck, be positive and I hope it is all as great as you all 'believe' for all of our sakes.

One9iner

Someone needs to grow up

99jolegg

Yes, you did...but the last part makes no sense to me so I left it out...

From what I can understand, you're saying that CTC have seen some sense, so have let him through to make some money? Either that or your second sentence just suggests you are sticking with your original statement. No idea what you're getting at.

TheBeak

Wow they have lowered the standard haven't they? I was saying OR maybe, JUST MAYBE they have seen some sense. i.e. They (being CTC) have seen some sense and aren't behaving like a business and are not just taking people for the sake of the money and are infact they are retaining some standards. I couldn't possibly comment on which option it is but by the sounds of you it is just some people don't have the money.

bigjarv

I love it when people resort to using "quotes" to defend themselves. Particularly when it is a quote of their own post!!! Tee hee!!

All I can add is something I have said before. CTC's success relies on people being successful and being satisfied. That applies to student and employer. To my knowledge both are currently, on the whole, pretty happy and have got what they paid for. They must be doing something right! That includes their selection process (which is basically stolen from BA without the psychometric testing).

It's bloody hard getting into CTC. Well done guys.

Bleak! I think you have probably made your point. Lets move on! Have you read your own posts by the way?!?! Very useful feature that read over peoples every post thing! Can you not see how people may react to your comments? Writing style is as important as the content! Much like body language counts for much more than what you say! In your posts its like you are waving your fists at people with smoke coming out your nostrils!!! Just some advice for you. Well done for opening peoples eyes thou. You are right to draw attention to the costs and the economy.

wirefly84

just a positive post for once- today at work (heathrow airport) I spoke to 2 ba captains,1 senior fo,and 4 fos, all seem to think its a good time to start training,the captains even said theyve seen this cycle before,and all regard ctc very highly,even coming frm oxford and cabair themselves,there exact words were "go for it".

topcat970

Finally some positive news! Thanks Wirefly.

Thumbs up to Chilli as well

Zippy Monster

'Positive news' would be something like "BA starts recruiting again" or "easyJet take cadets on permanent contracts". Fair enough, the pilots to whom you refer are working in the industry and more than entitled to their opinion, which is exactly what this is - opinion. What makes their opinion any more valid than those who are saying "at the moment, most definitely do NOT go for it"?

Did they elaborate on why exactly they think it's a good time to start training, other than having seen this proverbial 'cycle' before?

Actually in my airline it's quite good. People are still flying, load factors are high, sales are good and people are just getting on with the job at hand.

TheBeak

I'm not actually against CTC at all and never have been. I didn't train with them either, so good on you for assuming. My point isn't again ANY FTOs infact, they are businesses and their purpose is ultimately to make money and they need to do what they need to do in order to achieve that. My problem is with any kind of training beyond a CPL any time soon and certainly any kind of integrated training. It's immensly frustrating when one is trying to give advice to people who in the main just wont take it. You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

DanConer, at least someone has some sense i.e. you. This is nothing like ever before, the airline industry is so different to 1991 and 2001 etc when there were notable lulls in the industry. And once a pilot with an airline ones FTO is irrelevant, there is no huge excitement or great respect surrounding CTC graduates. Come back down to Earth.

Ollie23

Oh dear, it all seems to have kicked off on here since I last logged on.

The level of immaturity and arrogance shown by many people on this thread is astounding, it's hardly a surprise us integrated cadets get such bad press. I see the reputable posters have long since vanished.

mattyh1986

Beak, you are right CTC are a business, but it works both ways. CTC want to make money they aren’t a charity and just enjoy helping people follow a dream, however, to make money they rely on a customer to buy their product, if their turning out poor quality products their customer retention is going to be poor. Which is why they do a selection to ensure their cadets are trainable and maximise the possibility that they will gain employment and ultimately meet their customers expectations, which is, a good quality pilot.

As a business they need to minimise their risk, CTC guarantee £30,000 of training costs if they take anybody on they will start having to pay out because people will be failing and have to drop out.

This is not marketing hype, I am not being blinded by sales jargon this is common sense and fact. I am not going into this blind and everybody is entitled to their opinion. People on here are not necessarily disagreeing with you, and a number of people have actually praised what your saying, myself included. What’s annoying people is your approach to it, you come across aggressive.


As for the news about the BA pilots, How refreshing to come on here and read something that made me smile.

BitMoreRightRudder

Gents I suggest everyone calms down. The Beak may be a little direct, but the point is, be careful. Let's not be bashful, getting onto the CTC course is far from easy. All those who get to NZ have done well.

Think long and hard about what you are committing to, I think that is all that is being suggested. I'm 3 and a bit years into airline flying and I'm still knee deep in debt. To the tune of 44,000 quid (I borrowed 60k in 2004 at 2% above base, and Ive been paying back £1000 every month since the middle of 2006). And I've been flying and earning decent money since I finished at Nursling. It is a matter of luck, and good timing. If you have considered all this and still have the desire to go ahead with your training, then myself and every other ex-ctc person out there wishes you all the best.

wirefly84

Yes i agree with BMRR,everyone does indeed need to calm down slightly. DanConer however,with regard to the talk i had with various pilots, i was not trying to kid anyone, or myself infact.Nothing makes their opinion any better than those advising NOT to start training, however last time i checked this was a forum to share information to potential cadets, and those were the answers that i was given - and therefore the answeres i shared. I apoligise if doing so offended you! Please note i was not refering to this as 'positive news' , just throwing in some pilots 'opinions' as i thought they might be relavant on a forum such as this.

Wing_Bound_Vortex

Couldn't agree more with BMRR, ( and he knows me well, how are you mate? ) if you've thought it all through and really, really know the risks you're taking on, then the best of luck. It isn't easy to get through selection nor get through the course as a whole, just throw yourself into it and see what happens the other side of training, that's all you can do if you're already in the process.

If you're thinking of starting training soon, in the hope of there being an upturn 2 years down the line, then i think you're being very brave, but again the best of luck, timing is at least half the battle of finding a job in this business. You may just be lucky. Or not. Can you accept that risk?

A final cautionary note. I know of at least one FO who is now paying for his type rating and line training at BMI this summer, total expenses up to that stage over £125,000 to get in that right seat....... So will they have a job offer after their contractual 3 months of line training is finished? Again i leave it for you to look at the market and figure out what the realistic chances are. Can you imagine the repayments on that sort of debt??

Don't ever let yourself get into that situation.

Good luck

WBV

Lyndon24

Can anyone tell me what other budget Airlines offer the cadetship programmes which involve me heftying out 30 000 Euro,..any idea how many people that go through this process are not inducted into the company?? What other companys have similar programme besides Ryan Air?? Thanks

Jimmbo

Heya guys,

I am currently going through the CTC process, having passed phase 3 last week and booked into phase 4. I'm extremely excited about possibly being able to start pilot training, having wanted to fly for the last 10 years, and finding out I cannot go military due to childhood asthma, I resigned myself that if unsuccessful with CTC I would have to find a different career.

My parents are extremely conscientious and need some firm reassurances if they are to help me secure a loan. They want to know that CTC are not a mickey mouse company and that neither the bank or company is about to go bust. Obviously, in all that they will want to know that I will be able to pay for my loans (so it will not come back and bite them).

As such I've trawled through several websites and found this thread in particular quite disturbing. As thebeak would say I've been looking for confirmation bias and not entirely taken into consideration that in 2 years time I could be looking at loan repayments and no job. I have several questions about reassurance over the company, but I suppose the primary question is should I be going through with CTC at all?

I understand that they have an excellent record at placing people. I was also told that they are partnering with new airlines. However, I have spoken with friend who's currently on his 6 month placement with EZY (having gone through CTC) and his explanation of the bond repayment differed considerably from Lee's presentation, and not for the better.

I appreciate those that suggest leaving the training for a few years until the market is more stable, but I see several problems with this. Firstly, would it not have seemed stable at the time of entry for my friend in EZY? Now he's having to resign to the fact that he will be lucky if he gets his bond back, and that he'll have to do agency work for the next few years. Secondly, during the presentation Lee stated they are raising the bond from 60,000 to 69,000 starting on the August course. I am potentially in the position to start in July (on the basis I pass phase 4), so is holding off a year (in a job where I am currently not paid much above basic salary) financially a good idea as I will undoubtly not recover the £9000 cost through working an extra year?

Sorry for the mammoth message. Its my first here on the forums and I seem to be in a position of many questions, and very few answers at the moment.

mattyh1986

Jimbo, I'm in exactly the same position at the moment. Im about to go to phase 4 on Thursday and would look to start in July to avoid the price increase.

CTC are a very reputable company, the big advantage I see for CTC is that you get a type rating without having to fork out £20,000 (as far as I understand please somebody correct me if I am wrong). If I went with FTE or Oxford it would cost me £80,000 and still no guarantee of a type rating.

As for finance and loan, its a bloody risky business taking out a large amount of money and putting it against your families house and again i'm in exactly the same position. I have some personal capitol but would still need a loan.

I think its vitally important to assess how you would manage if you have to spend 3-6-12 months without a flying job post training, my plan is to stay at home use my degree to get a job and just get by until my break comes, but there is no certainty. You are risking a lot so just be sure.

I also am going through the same thought process in terms of deciding if i should sit on it and wait a year or so. There are 2 factors which tell me to start in July, 1stly I want to avoid the increase in cost, and secondly I believe the economy will be recovering 18 months from now.

PM me if you wanna chat more, maybe I'll see you out there in July.