TheBeak

No problem, it is ONLY my take on it. And good on you for maintaining your pleasantness despite probably being told what you didn't want to hear. Others could do with taking heed on this site!

mattyh1986

a lot of doom and gloom, I am currently in the process of applying for a position on CTC wings Cadet scheme, is this a big mistake?

TheBeak

There's no harm in applying and with regards to the outcome of actually training I don't know. I can't say this enough though, really think twice before you secure your family home against a loan with ANY FTO. It is insane. It isn't about obtaining the licenses or passing the exams, I am sure CTC can do that better than most but it is about finding employment - sustainable, long term employment that is going to pay 7-8 years of £1200 a month after tax. If you want to fulfil a life long pipe dream and fly a jet for 6 months, you probably should have started around about 2 years ago. Or you could start now, go modular and buy a job with Ryanair. Or you could get a PPL, train in something else and give it a swerve because it doesn't look like airline flying will be the same again. Training is all much too much of a business I am afraid.

davepearsall

my advice would be as long as you can afford the repayments then there shouldn't be a problem.

This is of course under the circumstances that you DON'T get a flying job after training. If you have a fall back career and have the ability to make the repayments then it is of course feasible.

TheBeak

no offence......but well done for stating the obvious. If you can meet the repayments then of course there is no problem but before living you would need to be earning pretty much £20000 just to service the loan. And I really don't believe in the second career thing much, I know trainees who are qualified doctors, engineers, cabin crew, architects, ramp agents, lawyers, accountants, ex military officers and none of them can get a job so what do you recommend? Shelf Stacker? But then comes the problem of needing £1200 a month just to service the loan so that counts that out.

wirefly84

It all comes down to peoples individual circumstances. I am going into this with my eyes open, and NOT assuming employment once i qualify.I believe in the 1 job to every 10 pilots estimate,however i think it is down to people to decide if they think they can compete in such a competitive industry. It is a very wise move to have a back up plan, I myself will be applying for permanent jobs suited to my degree way before i finish my training, also having saved up a 'contingency' fund if i dont find employment any time soon.Yes its a risk, and nobody on here can even guess what the industry will be like in 2 years time, however, if at every oppertunity you prepare for the worst and dont assume everything will be rosey,you will eventually have the edge when things do improve.Only time will tell, but i would much rather take the risk and work my arse off for 2 years in a dead end job paying my loan off, yes it wont be the high life and yes i wont have much to live on, but i couldnt care less as that knowing that 1 day i will live my dream will make it worthwhile, just depends how much you want it.People will say its their dream, but can you live with the consequences if things dont go to plan and be prepared to take responsibility for your debt? Thats where i think many cadets go wrong, and dont think the likely outcomes through.I myself am prepared to take this step - knowing the disadvantages far outweigh any possible advantages,that doesent make me a 'fool' just someone that is prepared to make the neccessary sacrifices to get where i want to be in life.

TheBeak

Uhhhhh yes it does.

You mention about planning for things. Murphies law is if something can go wrong it will do at the worst possible time in the worst possible way. An extended law of this is, if you plan to do something, things WILL go wrong, if you don't plan things, you will probably fail.

Your plan sounds a little idealistic despite how realistic you feel you are being. So you will apply for jobs will you? No one will take you seeing that you are quailfied as a pilot, they know you aren't intending to hang around. Unless you have some experience in something where you may be able to apply for a contract role but there aren't many around. Simply having a degree (who doesn't with 300,000 graduating this year alone) doesn't qualify you for anything, you need experience, much like being a pilot. So how do you explain your pilots license? Or how do you explain a 2 year gap in your C.V.? You are being blinded by the love of flying, and if you haven't tried it yet, you'll be even more blinded by it once you have tried it but get real.

Take your plans, remove your ability to apply for a job long before you qualify, remove your savings through things running on longer than you planned and then CONSIDER THE FACT YOU ARE WILLING TO SECURE AT THE END OF IT ALL £85000 ON YOUR PARENTS HOME!

no sponsor

Well, once the economy recovers, and it will, you will be entering an aviation industry which will not expand at the rate it has in previous years. EZY, RYN, and the others will be in a saturated market. There will be only so many more aircraft these airlines will buy. At some point, like most other airlines, the fleet expansions will stop, and you will face a situation similar to today even when the economy is OK.

Zippy Monster

Please, I implore you - don't do that. How much do you ACTUALLY know about being an airline pilot? Have you asked a real-life line F/O what the job is really like? Have you actually looked beyond the Ray-Bans and the nice uniform?

I can assure you - it's a great job, I wouldn't swap it for anything else. But worth putting my parents' house on the line? Considering the current economy and recruitment market? No. Trust me, it's not worth that.

Not saying don't train - but be sensible and don't be blinded by fancy images and FTO marketing and "the dream".

TheBeak

Yes, I know, that's why I said re-consider the fact that anyone would be willing to secure the loan on their families home - it is insane. As for the uniform and the ray bans, I don't like the shirts, they never seem to fit and as for pilots who where Ray Ban aviators

Zippy Monster

Wasn't aimed at you, Beak... I was agreeing with you!

davepearsall

TheBeak - I did indeed state the obvious. Short and sweet and got to the point, which makes a refreshing change on this forum!

It is certainly possible and there are many individuals that have come out of flight training, not got a flying job and haven't ended up with the bailiffs knocking on the door of their parents homes.

Suggestions of a job you ask, well I am lucky that I work in a Science Department in a school. Science teachers (especially Physics teachers) are much sort after. I still always get my local job paper (which is considerably thinner than usual for obvious reasons) but it always always advertising for teachers, cover supervisors and technicians.

I DO recommend getting a profession before commencing flight training. However make sure it is one where their are jobs readily available.

Ollie23

Just the motivational read i needed before hitting the ATPL books!!

Unfortunately it sounds pretty much spot on, those going through the wings selection process take note.

I was very lucky and had some inheritance so didn't draw on anything like the full loan, if I was faced with the prospect of servicing £1000+ a month for 8 years I would have run a mile.

sharpclassic

At last someone is talking some sense.

Anyone thinking of applying to CTC, Oxford, Cabair, FTE, anyone....

Listen to those of us who have been through the process. Those of use who are now in full time jobs. Those of us who have 400hrs on a A320 and can't even get a job in Tesco.


TAKE NOTE!!!!

mattyh1986

Guys, I appreciate everything your saying, but your making it sound like there is 0 hope for anybody becoming a pilot at the moment.

nevilinio

The Beak,

I would hope that most guys (and gals) who have entered this training would have thought about having something to fall back on. I for one have a fairly reputable degree with experience in the real world. I hear what your saying about 300,000 graduating this year, but not all of those will be doing mickey mouse courses with no job prospects at the end.

Dude, thats lame, what does that say about the quality of the individual who is churned out the end of the training? Seriously! Maybe you need to lower your standards and go for McDonalds.

There are so many people on this forum, giving it their best to put potentially excellent pilots off from commencing their training. Who are they to say that when those guys (and gals) finish their training it will be exactly the same situation. I feel for those who are coming out of their training now, I do, but dont you think your efforts should be better spent focussing on improving your CV's or practising for those all important technical interviews rather than pulling others down?

Just a thought......

BitMoreRightRudder

I don't think you get it. It says nothing about the quality of the individual, and everything about the state of the industry and the type of people who hold management positions in airlines like easyjet. All the "who's the best pilot" cp you saw in Top Gun doesn't count for anything when you are trying to keep a job in the real world.

d41xcs

mmmm i just love the negativity around this place at the moment! i think we should start a new forum titled something along the lines of "Why you're stupid/deluded to apply to CTC/FTE/OAA etc", so that all those people who want to apply, but want someone else to tell them what to do, can get the advice they deserve.

Those people who have thought it through, properly, long and hard, should then be allowed to post on this forum, which i believe was originally set up to offer advice about the CTC selection process and the course thereafter.

mattyh1986

WELL SAID! , there is nothing wrong with people offering guidance and support but there is far too much negativity flying around (no pun intended). It seems like too many people see all wannabees as stary eyes dreamers who don't consider the facts.

nevilinio

D41xcs, Spot on