UK jobs market and where and how to find that first job?
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you are right, look at my posts.I have spent over 80'000 euro with no job.
and most of my friends, have no job.
Europe count over 15000 unemployed pilots.
wait a few years and keep an eye on aviation.why to rush???worry to miss the train.
what you will miss is a normal life, with house, wife, and money!
many people do not belive me, or think I am a troll. But at the end , who is the troll with a frozen ATP, no money and NO JOB???
If I knew this forum years ago, I would not have started my training, But I would have applies in the airlines with 0 hour.
and most of my friends, have no job.
Europe count over 15000 unemployed pilots.
wait a few years and keep an eye on aviation.why to rush???worry to miss the train.
what you will miss is a normal life, with house, wife, and money!
many people do not belive me, or think I am a troll. But at the end , who is the troll with a frozen ATP, no money and NO JOB???
If I knew this forum years ago, I would not have started my training, But I would have applies in the airlines with 0 hour.
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Newbie, take no heed of A320s post! Just because he has no Job with an airline right now doesn't mean he will never get one, although a positive and optimistic attitude could do wonders for him!
Have a look at this thread:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=214174
With hard work & determination you have as much of a shot as anyone else with a fatpl, althought don't expect to finish training and walk straight onto the flight deck of a shiney new a320, like some have done, it will lead to dissapointment!
Have a look at this thread:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=214174
With hard work & determination you have as much of a shot as anyone else with a fatpl, althought don't expect to finish training and walk straight onto the flight deck of a shiney new a320, like some have done, it will lead to dissapointment!
i cant believe it Join Date: Nov 2005
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If you have inside contacts (preferably skippers) and/or are prepared to do the hard yards and develop a network ie: get out and meet professional pilots, join flying clubs and buy beers etc then the process could be a lot easier. Many many many jobs go unadvertised and whilst it is tempting to sit around playing on pprune and firing off a thousand cv's whilst it is raining outside you might just strike it lucky. Its one approach but not necessarily one that will give you the best chances of securing a job. Of course there are no guarantees in this game either so caveat emptor.
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flz the UN doesnt fly anything, its all contractors. johannesburg airport would be a good place to start, maybe ask around the african forum here on the prune. US company Air Serve (cant remember the address) are a UN contractor using caravans (and other types).
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To 5 Rings
5 Rings,Hello mate,
I'm in a similar situation you've been in. I have my Canadian commercial license without multi/IR. Currently reside in leeds doing ATPL theory through bristol ground school. I plan on returning to Canada to complete my multi/IR and immediately return to do my commercial /multi ride, then 15 hours and IR ride. The question I have is: Which flight school in Canada did you go to? Which school in the UK did you convert yourlicense with, including theory? Are there many differences between instructional/examination standards in the UK compared to Canada.
Any advise would be a great help!
I'm in a similar situation you've been in. I have my Canadian commercial license without multi/IR. Currently reside in leeds doing ATPL theory through bristol ground school. I plan on returning to Canada to complete my multi/IR and immediately return to do my commercial /multi ride, then 15 hours and IR ride. The question I have is: Which flight school in Canada did you go to? Which school in the UK did you convert yourlicense with, including theory? Are there many differences between instructional/examination standards in the UK compared to Canada.
Any advise would be a great help!
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15000 unemployed pilot for the 25 countries of Europe.
I know, it is a lot, but sadly it is true.I think it is more...
3000-4000 for france
same for italy
2000 portugal
3000 germany
2000 austria
etc,...
most of these pilots have a CPL with 250h, IR, MCC,...
it is a lottery.
I know, it is a lot, but sadly it is true.I think it is more...
3000-4000 for france
same for italy
2000 portugal
3000 germany
2000 austria
etc,...
most of these pilots have a CPL with 250h, IR, MCC,...
it is a lottery.
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Originally Posted by A320rider
15000 unemployed pilot for the 25 countries of Europe.
3000-4000 for france
same for italy
2000 portugal
3000 germany
2000 austria
etc,...
.
3000-4000 for france
same for italy
2000 portugal
3000 germany
2000 austria
etc,...
.
thats excellent news!
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Guys,
I'm really starting to get doubts. It's taken me a few years of hard thinking and rationalisation to convince myself that I should take the plunge and start the training. As much as I would love to fly for a living, I am really starting to wonder now, every where I look I hear the same sad tale....no jobs, years of searching, tried everything, broke and on the verge of bankruptcy, paying for TR's, still no job, no hope, surplus of pilots..... etc etc etc
Should I just forget dreaming and stick to what I know, wife, house, reasonable job, average money, comfortable etc.
I'm starting to panic, really don't know what to do, should I risk my families comfortable life for the sake of fulfilling a dream which could ruin me if it does not come off, for me its such a big gamble. I just don't know what to do....
It so sad that this wonderful industry has turned in to what it has. So So sad.
Sorry, I know I haven't really contributed, I just needed to express what I am feeling right now.
I'm really starting to get doubts. It's taken me a few years of hard thinking and rationalisation to convince myself that I should take the plunge and start the training. As much as I would love to fly for a living, I am really starting to wonder now, every where I look I hear the same sad tale....no jobs, years of searching, tried everything, broke and on the verge of bankruptcy, paying for TR's, still no job, no hope, surplus of pilots..... etc etc etc
Should I just forget dreaming and stick to what I know, wife, house, reasonable job, average money, comfortable etc.
I'm starting to panic, really don't know what to do, should I risk my families comfortable life for the sake of fulfilling a dream which could ruin me if it does not come off, for me its such a big gamble. I just don't know what to do....
It so sad that this wonderful industry has turned in to what it has. So So sad.
Sorry, I know I haven't really contributed, I just needed to express what I am feeling right now.
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yes batfink58 me too, I'm thinking the same thing. I'm doubting if I should go on and pay for a training or forget about it. It's easier for me since I'm just 22 and have no wife/childs. I have found 2 solutions:
1-) I try to join the Air Force (Canada) and sign a 7 years contract.
2-) I get an IT job with my diploma (Network Administrator), do my Private Licence, and if I really love flying, then I take a loan and pursue my formation.
On the other hand, my optimistic brother who is an F/O on the A320 tells me that this is the perfect time to be a pilot as the industry is picking up....
1-) I try to join the Air Force (Canada) and sign a 7 years contract.
2-) I get an IT job with my diploma (Network Administrator), do my Private Licence, and if I really love flying, then I take a loan and pursue my formation.
On the other hand, my optimistic brother who is an F/O on the A320 tells me that this is the perfect time to be a pilot as the industry is picking up....
Jet Blast Rat
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Originally Posted by batfink
every where I look I hear the same sad tale....no jobs, years of searching, tried everything, broke and on the verge of bankruptcy, paying for TR's, still no job, no hope, surplus of pilots
For a start get your grammar up to scratch, as your job applications scattered with errors such as the "every where", "families" and "in to" will just be binned. It might seem pedantic here, but if you don't know that those three items were incorrect in your post then you need to work on that. To be a pilot you do need to pay attention to detail, and the first indication a potential employer sees of that is in the covering letter to your CV.
Then start looking into what you want out of the job, and if like A320 then it is just the prestige of a "glamorous" jet job then don't bother. It isn't glamorous, and it isn't necessarily where you'll end up. In my opinion it isn't the best flying, I don't think it would satisfy the love of flying that made me invest the time, money and effort in getting here.
Jumbo
The market is further ahead this side of the Atlantic, at least in the UK.
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I’m glad to hear that things are going well in the UK. I am hoping to move across the pond within the next few months and will be excited to get a chance to see the country from the air. With any luck I will be getting paid to do it. As of yet, I have had very poor responses from the Air Operators that I have contacted, but I’m sure that the list I have from ‘pilotcareercenter’ is not representative. I’m sure I’ll have better luck when I’m face to face with company owners and such.
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i also like to say that I once started with father. and many mothers, and sold my mothers to sponsor flight training for f.atpl - i not good son
. but we weep what we sow and chestnuts of wisdom can fall far from the tree. now many years later no A320, no money, no job and no mother's, but big debt and very cold atpl. see whatt can happen if u want to be a pilot! only jobs today are for the rich boy's with mothers who dont need to win the lotery. million's of pilots in places like the falkland islands, st helena and brokeback wyoming with good grammar like mine have no job's but are all still looking. as a young man or woman or whatever you should listen because your parent are right to tell you too stay at school to be an astronaut. i know. 
. but we weep what we sow and chestnuts of wisdom can fall far from the tree. now many years later no A320, no money, no job and no mother's, but big debt and very cold atpl. see whatt can happen if u want to be a pilot! only jobs today are for the rich boy's with mothers who dont need to win the lotery. million's of pilots in places like the falkland islands, st helena and brokeback wyoming with good grammar like mine have no job's but are all still looking. as a young man or woman or whatever you should listen because your parent are right to tell you too stay at school to be an astronaut. i know.
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Maybe I should not comment as I am not so up with the aviation scene in Europe, but if you are in your early 20s, with the money to invest, I would say go for it…
I saw a statistic that at in Australia 80% of Commercial pilots holders do not work as pilots! All the same, there is work if you want it bad enough. Many people just seem to think it will be handed to them on a plate, few drive around the continent knocking on ever door at every airport, as I and my mates did. Admittedly, it did not work…first time...so I did it again!!! Finally I got my job…
I know things work somewhat different in Europe, but my point is that if you are prepared to work anywhere, for any wage, then you will get some hours, and on you go from there…If you are not prepared to do that to begin with, then forget being a pilot...I
If your idea is to just accumulate 250 hours, and buy a A320 type rating, and expect an airline to snap you up, then you have the wrong attitude to begin with…
I’m sure I’ll have better luck when I’m face to face with company owners and such.
Sure you will! When I wanted to go to your country (Canada) to work, I e-mailed around 100 companies, 2 got back to me to say “no thanks”…Still, I got a job by knocking on doors when I arrived…
I saw a statistic that at in Australia 80% of Commercial pilots holders do not work as pilots! All the same, there is work if you want it bad enough. Many people just seem to think it will be handed to them on a plate, few drive around the continent knocking on ever door at every airport, as I and my mates did. Admittedly, it did not work…first time...so I did it again!!! Finally I got my job…
I know things work somewhat different in Europe, but my point is that if you are prepared to work anywhere, for any wage, then you will get some hours, and on you go from there…If you are not prepared to do that to begin with, then forget being a pilot...I
If your idea is to just accumulate 250 hours, and buy a A320 type rating, and expect an airline to snap you up, then you have the wrong attitude to begin with…
I’m sure I’ll have better luck when I’m face to face with company owners and such.
Sure you will! When I wanted to go to your country (Canada) to work, I e-mailed around 100 companies, 2 got back to me to say “no thanks”…Still, I got a job by knocking on doors when I arrived…
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Originally Posted by A320_rider
no mother's ... see whatt ... dont need to win the lotery ... million's ... have no job's but are all still looking. as a young man or woman or whatever you should listen because your parent are right to tell you too stay at school to be an astronaut...
with good grammar like mine
with good grammar like mine
You've made my day brighter. Just lovely, mate...
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Yes,you're all right at some point.
Ofcourse it was better back then when my father started a pilot school,and company sponsored his flight school,his TR and he got a job right away,but it's never gonna be like that anymore!!!!and that's what all of us should realise.those days are past,and are not coming back.
you see,in life,you gotta take some risk,otherwise everything would be as we planned,which is impossible.
in my country,there is only one (1!!!!) airline,so if i thought like most of guys do,i would never even think about getting a licence,beacuse it's very,very hard to get a job.but,i'm ready to struggle a couple of years,because that's what i wanna do with my life.it's better to struggle a couple of years,than be unhappy next forty years working in some office 9-5.
btw,if you look in the newspapers for some other jobs,EVERY company,not just the airlines,wants you to have some previous experience,but they still hire people without experience.ofcourse they would prefer one with experience,but if they can't find one,they'll hire one with knowledge(licence) required without experience.it's that simple.
put yourself in a position of an airliner.
you would probably prefer one with experience,with TR,with hours on type over some low hour guys fresh off the flight school.but,if there's not any of those with experience,you'll start thinking about giving a chance to those w/o experience.
Ofcourse it was better back then when my father started a pilot school,and company sponsored his flight school,his TR and he got a job right away,but it's never gonna be like that anymore!!!!and that's what all of us should realise.those days are past,and are not coming back.
you see,in life,you gotta take some risk,otherwise everything would be as we planned,which is impossible.
in my country,there is only one (1!!!!) airline,so if i thought like most of guys do,i would never even think about getting a licence,beacuse it's very,very hard to get a job.but,i'm ready to struggle a couple of years,because that's what i wanna do with my life.it's better to struggle a couple of years,than be unhappy next forty years working in some office 9-5.
btw,if you look in the newspapers for some other jobs,EVERY company,not just the airlines,wants you to have some previous experience,but they still hire people without experience.ofcourse they would prefer one with experience,but if they can't find one,they'll hire one with knowledge(licence) required without experience.it's that simple.
put yourself in a position of an airliner.
you would probably prefer one with experience,with TR,with hours on type over some low hour guys fresh off the flight school.but,if there's not any of those with experience,you'll start thinking about giving a chance to those w/o experience.
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Send Clowns,
Thanks for your input. I value your comments and suggestions.
However, I admit the grammar in my last post is poor, to be honest I did not even check my post since I was frantically bashing away at my keyboard to express my feelings. Grammar was the last thing on my mind at that time.
Anyway, excuses aside, I wish we could all be as perfect as you!!
Thanks again, you have been a great help (not)
Thanks for your input. I value your comments and suggestions.
However, I admit the grammar in my last post is poor, to be honest I did not even check my post since I was frantically bashing away at my keyboard to express my feelings. Grammar was the last thing on my mind at that time.
Anyway, excuses aside, I wish we could all be as perfect as you!!
Thanks again, you have been a great help (not)
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It still amazes me how many people think that 250 hrs a CPL/IR and an MCC course will get you a job in a shiney airliner. Having worked on every continent bar Aus. and having never found as a rule that you will be employed in any regional or low cost airliner with less than 800 hrs or so, and that is being very kind. Sure there are the exceptions like in any industry, but if you go into this thinking you are an exception you are in for a wake up call.
Get more experience than the next guy, travel if you have to, to far away exotic countries and go do the sh!tty flying jobs that other people think are beneath them, come back with some good stories and even better flying time and see how easy it is to get a job.
Get more experience than the next guy, travel if you have to, to far away exotic countries and go do the sh!tty flying jobs that other people think are beneath them, come back with some good stories and even better flying time and see how easy it is to get a job.
Jet Blast Rat
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Batfink
If you want people to understand you, and to help you, you have to take seriously what you post. I was genuinely interested in where you are looking to find what is going on in the industry, because it doesn't look anything like the view from where I am. It would be a shame if you made a decision based on limited information then regreted it 10 years down the line. I was also genuinely trying to help advise you. This is a conservative industrys in which communication is considered of primary importance. If you really do want to fly then you will need to take advice from other people, as we all have done, and many people will offer help. However you will have to change your attitude, even if you don't agree with the advice don't jump on those that give it.
This business more than any other I have worked in is about how people percieve you, and what they think about working with you. More people get jobs by personal contacts than by replying to adverts, so if you go around with that attitude you will put up the backs of people who would otherwise have helped you.
B200
Some people really do get jobs at 250 hours on turboprops and jets, at least in the UK. I know several. However you are right that people have to be willing to work hard in other areas - and A320 again suggests he is only going for a jet job, and shows us all why he should never have tried to be a pilot.
If you want people to understand you, and to help you, you have to take seriously what you post. I was genuinely interested in where you are looking to find what is going on in the industry, because it doesn't look anything like the view from where I am. It would be a shame if you made a decision based on limited information then regreted it 10 years down the line. I was also genuinely trying to help advise you. This is a conservative industrys in which communication is considered of primary importance. If you really do want to fly then you will need to take advice from other people, as we all have done, and many people will offer help. However you will have to change your attitude, even if you don't agree with the advice don't jump on those that give it.
This business more than any other I have worked in is about how people percieve you, and what they think about working with you. More people get jobs by personal contacts than by replying to adverts, so if you go around with that attitude you will put up the backs of people who would otherwise have helped you.
B200
Some people really do get jobs at 250 hours on turboprops and jets, at least in the UK. I know several. However you are right that people have to be willing to work hard in other areas - and A320 again suggests he is only going for a jet job, and shows us all why he should never have tried to be a pilot.