FO's paying to fly?
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ACP ,it does help.
You are confirming what i and a lot of other poeple here have stated about you and your buddy's,you are a cancer to this industry. I hope that some of the guys/girls in the LHS at your company will deal with you the way you deserve. In the company i work for, me (and a lot of other guys) will apply CRM(with individuals like you) only to the point were a safe flight is gauranteed, other than that you would be on your own and you can stick that TR in your
Good luck.
You are confirming what i and a lot of other poeple here have stated about you and your buddy's,you are a cancer to this industry. I hope that some of the guys/girls in the LHS at your company will deal with you the way you deserve. In the company i work for, me (and a lot of other guys) will apply CRM(with individuals like you) only to the point were a safe flight is gauranteed, other than that you would be on your own and you can stick that TR in your
Good luck.
The purchasing of line time effectively makes you a prostitute (harsh words but well deserved) and the airline a customer and the "training" organisation a pimp.
Just thought I'd quote these words again for those of you who don't read too well.
Along those lines, I believe Stapelford/Astreaus are ACTIVELY discouraging older (30+) ab-initio trainees on their integrated+100hrs 737 "course" (and I use that term loosely esp. as I have never heard of a "course" that discriminates on age) which suggests to me STRONGLY that they are using this as a cheap (and profitable) way to recruit young, new (and naive) pilots into their "culture" and keep 'em on AND not as a pure "training" device (where age would I assume be somewhat less material).
Welcome to the new World.
Just thought I'd quote these words again for those of you who don't read too well.
Along those lines, I believe Stapelford/Astreaus are ACTIVELY discouraging older (30+) ab-initio trainees on their integrated+100hrs 737 "course" (and I use that term loosely esp. as I have never heard of a "course" that discriminates on age) which suggests to me STRONGLY that they are using this as a cheap (and profitable) way to recruit young, new (and naive) pilots into their "culture" and keep 'em on AND not as a pure "training" device (where age would I assume be somewhat less material).
Welcome to the new World.
Last edited by flash8; 20th Dec 2005 at 15:40.
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Hazehoe,
The airline I am working with used to hire F/Os for line training and there is no problem with those in the RHS as long as you do your job. It's not because you have decided to pay for your first experience on a jet that your are a bad boy or that your personality is bad. By the way, you have to do a sim evaluation and an interview before joining the airline, if you are not safe, they don't take you (and your money).
Have you just realised that you are trained and paid for that?
I hope that some of the guys/girls in the LHS at your company will deal with you the way you deserve
In the company i work for, me (and a lot of other guys) will apply CRM(with individuals like you) only to the point were a safe flight is gauranteed
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ACP ,are you really a pilot? have you ever done a CRM course?, who is talking about you being safe or not? Can you explain "used to hire F/Os for line training"?
Yes, i know what i am paid for and i just told you how i handle that!!
Dream on
Yes, i know what i am paid for and i just told you how i handle that!!
Dream on
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ACP,
thanks for the information at least someone here has backed it up... however.
"You have to wake up guys, flying a jet is not more difficult than a light twin"
When will you guys wake up ..its not flying the plane thats im worried about .... its the fact you no command experiance. the 1000-2000 hrs you gain in GA is all command nowone to hold your hand on a stormy night on IFR charter..
You also say that the guys in the RHS have no problem with you...... they may say nothing to your face but you are a scab in they eyes of all professional pilots, you have taken some "qualified" pilots job because you have forked out the cash..
its sad where u guys are taking this industry.... my advise to others, dont take the easy way out. Flying in the bush is an experiance/adventure and you will have some great stories to tell, and you will become a much better pilot.
Duff Shark
thanks for the information at least someone here has backed it up... however.
"You have to wake up guys, flying a jet is not more difficult than a light twin"
When will you guys wake up ..its not flying the plane thats im worried about .... its the fact you no command experiance. the 1000-2000 hrs you gain in GA is all command nowone to hold your hand on a stormy night on IFR charter..
You also say that the guys in the RHS have no problem with you...... they may say nothing to your face but you are a scab in they eyes of all professional pilots, you have taken some "qualified" pilots job because you have forked out the cash..
its sad where u guys are taking this industry.... my advise to others, dont take the easy way out. Flying in the bush is an experiance/adventure and you will have some great stories to tell, and you will become a much better pilot.
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Duff Shark: I had 215 hours, did a 737 rating with 100 hours.. got a job on the 737 after a month. There are others like me, BUT there are also others without jobs. The SSTR is a gamble.. make no mistake about it!
Scroggs: I have met a few people who refused to fly anything but jets and one of them actually got there (no SSTR, just hard work through the back door of a particular airline). Furthermore, there are many who come straight out of flight school and self fund a TR. However, there are many others who would be willing to fly anything. SSTR in my opinion is an extension of desperation.. a fear of never getting to fly anything!!!!
Many people on my SSTR course had been out of flight training from 1-3 years. I myself worked in flight ops (company went tits up), looked for air taxi work.. they weren't interested and fair play to them because they know they can get another muppet more experienced equally as prepared to work for peanuts. If I had not passed the selection to start the SSTR then I would have been forced to pay for a FIC, I had not flown an aircraft for over two years.. people don't start to take you seriously anymore. I was unprepared to sit on my arse and watch newly qualified guys come out of flight school and reap the rewards of an industry that is vibrant.. so I did something about it and for me it paid off.
As others have posted, the industry is vibrant, and you can get offered jobs without a TR, my first interview with a regional airline came sadly too late as I was fully committed to the TR, but it shows the chances are there. FlyBE, Air Southwest, ThomsonFly, BA mainline and citiexpress, Cityjet, Air Aurigny, Air Wales.. there are many more.
PicMas: Yes you are bitter, it's a pity. I could have ended up like you.. instead I decided to take the gamble (take out a loan).. of course it's far more difficult if you have a mortage and a family.. I have neither, and I KNOW if I chose to have both then I couldn't have done what I did, if you've already got both tough luck.. quit moaning you've got a house and a family!
Hazehoe: quote: 'other than that you would be on your own and you can stick that TR in your'
Yeah.. good CRM mate, that's really what United Airlines were looking for when they first implemented CRM.. who's your flight safety officer.. do they support you enlightened views on CRM.
Flash8: Reading you loud and clear 5 by 5, get over the age thing.. we all get old at some point.
To conclude, wannabes there are many ways to find a job.. the SSTR is a gamble and it doesn't always pay off. Most have selection processes as they should have, but even if you do pass the selection be warned not everybody passes the TR.. or further more passes the line check. It will take a lot of hard work to acheive even the bare minimum line standard (unless you have previous jet experience.. highly unlikely!!). Then of course you will be in stiff competition against fellow candidates and other more experienced jet pilots for the available jobs. Many jet operators do take SSTR contrary to the moans on this forum.. it is the airline management and in particular flight operations management who have the say.. not the bitter views of some on this forum: BA, Ryanair, Excel, Channex/Jet2, Thomsonfly, Astraeus, FlyGlobespan, BMI Baby and other UK airlines have taken SSTR guys.. Easyjet, Thomas Cook, Monarch take from the CTC programme (self-funded!!). I think you get my point.
The flight instructor route I feel is a proven way of gaining experience and enjoying a flying challenge.. it is not to be mocked, however, it will cost between, 5-7 grand to get the damn rating (not many schools sponsor anymore) and you will have to be able to afford to live on a salary which is close to an insult in lieu of the challenge and responsiblity a flight instructor has to deal with.
To those bitter moaners out there: keep it bitter
Wannabes good luck with the job hunting
747 Downwind
Scroggs: I have met a few people who refused to fly anything but jets and one of them actually got there (no SSTR, just hard work through the back door of a particular airline). Furthermore, there are many who come straight out of flight school and self fund a TR. However, there are many others who would be willing to fly anything. SSTR in my opinion is an extension of desperation.. a fear of never getting to fly anything!!!!
Many people on my SSTR course had been out of flight training from 1-3 years. I myself worked in flight ops (company went tits up), looked for air taxi work.. they weren't interested and fair play to them because they know they can get another muppet more experienced equally as prepared to work for peanuts. If I had not passed the selection to start the SSTR then I would have been forced to pay for a FIC, I had not flown an aircraft for over two years.. people don't start to take you seriously anymore. I was unprepared to sit on my arse and watch newly qualified guys come out of flight school and reap the rewards of an industry that is vibrant.. so I did something about it and for me it paid off.
As others have posted, the industry is vibrant, and you can get offered jobs without a TR, my first interview with a regional airline came sadly too late as I was fully committed to the TR, but it shows the chances are there. FlyBE, Air Southwest, ThomsonFly, BA mainline and citiexpress, Cityjet, Air Aurigny, Air Wales.. there are many more.
PicMas: Yes you are bitter, it's a pity. I could have ended up like you.. instead I decided to take the gamble (take out a loan).. of course it's far more difficult if you have a mortage and a family.. I have neither, and I KNOW if I chose to have both then I couldn't have done what I did, if you've already got both tough luck.. quit moaning you've got a house and a family!
Hazehoe: quote: 'other than that you would be on your own and you can stick that TR in your'
Yeah.. good CRM mate, that's really what United Airlines were looking for when they first implemented CRM.. who's your flight safety officer.. do they support you enlightened views on CRM.
Flash8: Reading you loud and clear 5 by 5, get over the age thing.. we all get old at some point.
To conclude, wannabes there are many ways to find a job.. the SSTR is a gamble and it doesn't always pay off. Most have selection processes as they should have, but even if you do pass the selection be warned not everybody passes the TR.. or further more passes the line check. It will take a lot of hard work to acheive even the bare minimum line standard (unless you have previous jet experience.. highly unlikely!!). Then of course you will be in stiff competition against fellow candidates and other more experienced jet pilots for the available jobs. Many jet operators do take SSTR contrary to the moans on this forum.. it is the airline management and in particular flight operations management who have the say.. not the bitter views of some on this forum: BA, Ryanair, Excel, Channex/Jet2, Thomsonfly, Astraeus, FlyGlobespan, BMI Baby and other UK airlines have taken SSTR guys.. Easyjet, Thomas Cook, Monarch take from the CTC programme (self-funded!!). I think you get my point.
The flight instructor route I feel is a proven way of gaining experience and enjoying a flying challenge.. it is not to be mocked, however, it will cost between, 5-7 grand to get the damn rating (not many schools sponsor anymore) and you will have to be able to afford to live on a salary which is close to an insult in lieu of the challenge and responsiblity a flight instructor has to deal with.
To those bitter moaners out there: keep it bitter
Wannabes good luck with the job hunting
747 Downwind
747 Downwind:
Although I am in my (late) 30's, I am also 737 RHS, just like you, although unlike you I didn't pay for a TR, I slogged my way through FI and TP's (all great experience by the way for those of you not wishing to "dirty" your hands with such things). I don't give a sh*t about age. I do however give a sh*t about attitude.
Marketing courses (such as the integrated+TR+100) as "training schemes" which are little more than profit makers for the airlines wanting a supply of FO's that meet their criteria is **unprintable**. This is effectively something along the lines of a "pay yourself/we select you" Cadet Scheme. Lets get the facts into the open.
I fear the industry is heading this way, and soon we will see this as the norm, and along the way degrading what flying really is all about. I'm not an old fart reminiscing about the "good 'ol days" of FI/TP etc, but that experience and commitment really defined to me what flying was/is all about, hard work and perserverance=solid experience and character, not the current "buy-yourself-a-737-job" we are now seeing.
Although I am in my (late) 30's, I am also 737 RHS, just like you, although unlike you I didn't pay for a TR, I slogged my way through FI and TP's (all great experience by the way for those of you not wishing to "dirty" your hands with such things). I don't give a sh*t about age. I do however give a sh*t about attitude.
Marketing courses (such as the integrated+TR+100) as "training schemes" which are little more than profit makers for the airlines wanting a supply of FO's that meet their criteria is **unprintable**. This is effectively something along the lines of a "pay yourself/we select you" Cadet Scheme. Lets get the facts into the open.
I fear the industry is heading this way, and soon we will see this as the norm, and along the way degrading what flying really is all about. I'm not an old fart reminiscing about the "good 'ol days" of FI/TP etc, but that experience and commitment really defined to me what flying was/is all about, hard work and perserverance=solid experience and character, not the current "buy-yourself-a-737-job" we are now seeing.
Last edited by flash8; 21st Dec 2005 at 11:20.
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if you would like to send a complaint, You can stop the "pay to work"''scam...
I have talked with one of the commission' representant, they told me they want hear from you, by writing them, email them or fax them.The ball is in your camp!
here the address:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
European Commission
Directorate-General for Energy and Transport
B-1049 Brussels
fax (32-2) 299 10 15
e-mail: [email protected]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I have talked with one of the commission' representant, they told me they want hear from you, by writing them, email them or fax them.The ball is in your camp!
here the address:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
European Commission
Directorate-General for Energy and Transport
B-1049 Brussels
fax (32-2) 299 10 15
e-mail: [email protected]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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747 Downwind
You responded to a lot of poeple on this post,you must be an EXPERT. I feel the same way about you and the way you had to force yourself in to the industry.
About the CRM, i will keep open communications,polite responses to questions,no harsh words etc, i will keep it professional.Don't expect me to ask you about your family,what you are doing for Christmas, the girl you fancy etc etc. If you believe i fail this part,you got it.You call this enlightened,you want me to buy you a beer after the flight or tell you how much i like flying with you? Wake up man,name me another business where poeple would not be pissed off if you are trying to advance your career and by the way you do this slow there career( your colleages) down and cost them money. Wait in line,go fly a twin in the Gongo or if this is not good enough for you BUY (which is still BS if you ask me)an ATR TR if you can't wait, but no,the logical step is from your BE 76 to the 737.
sorry to break the news but i suspect that a healthy amount of your colleages look down on you.
Go on and promote your TR buying to the new wannabees, you already did enough damage,but you had to come on here with your worldly look on things and explain how aviation works, i am sure you have been is this business for at least 2 years.
You responded to a lot of poeple on this post,you must be an EXPERT. I feel the same way about you and the way you had to force yourself in to the industry.
About the CRM, i will keep open communications,polite responses to questions,no harsh words etc, i will keep it professional.Don't expect me to ask you about your family,what you are doing for Christmas, the girl you fancy etc etc. If you believe i fail this part,you got it.You call this enlightened,you want me to buy you a beer after the flight or tell you how much i like flying with you? Wake up man,name me another business where poeple would not be pissed off if you are trying to advance your career and by the way you do this slow there career( your colleages) down and cost them money. Wait in line,go fly a twin in the Gongo or if this is not good enough for you BUY (which is still BS if you ask me)an ATR TR if you can't wait, but no,the logical step is from your BE 76 to the 737.
sorry to break the news but i suspect that a healthy amount of your colleages look down on you.
Go on and promote your TR buying to the new wannabees, you already did enough damage,but you had to come on here with your worldly look on things and explain how aviation works, i am sure you have been is this business for at least 2 years.
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hazehoe and 747downwind: if you can't continue this discussion without descending to name-calling and abuse, then I will be forced to remove your access to this thread. Keep your passions under control; your argument is not enhanced by profanities and the like. On the contrary, it is considerably diminished. Play the ball and not the man!
Scroggs
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SUB PART K
Question: Wlll the Multi-Pilot Rating help to train pilots who specifically want to pursue a career in the airlines, compared to the largely GA based frozen "Airline" Pilots Licence that spends most of the dosh on older and single crew technologies?
Multi-Crew Pilot Licence
This is "The Future” for airline pilot training
JAA is making all efforts to facilitate it, by creating a regulatory framework in JAR-FCL
Change to General Requirements,
Instrument Rating, ATPL(A),
Instructors,
Examiners
and Theoretical Knowledge Requirements
Introduction of new Subpart K – Multi-Crew Pilot Licence
Multi-Crew Pilot Licence
This is "The Future” for airline pilot training
JAA is making all efforts to facilitate it, by creating a regulatory framework in JAR-FCL
Change to General Requirements,
Instrument Rating, ATPL(A),
Instructors,
Examiners
and Theoretical Knowledge Requirements
Introduction of new Subpart K – Multi-Crew Pilot Licence
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The new multi-crew licence is covered adequately in this discussion. Please do not dilute the discussion in this thread by going off on tangents. You may of course contribute freely to the linked thread.
Scroggs
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Please would you stop,
if you dont agree with the situation in this aviation market, why dont you contact your politicians.
I gave you the adress where to send your complaint. So do it!. what does it cost you?, a stamp.
mine is ready to be print out and send and I have contacted some other guys on other french forums to pass the word.
if you dont agree with the situation in this aviation market, why dont you contact your politicians.
I gave you the adress where to send your complaint. So do it!. what does it cost you?, a stamp.
mine is ready to be print out and send and I have contacted some other guys on other french forums to pass the word.
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Flash8: I will not get involved in the morality of buying a TR, in fairness I have done it before, bit of light hearted humour that's all (it came out wrong). U seem like a nice enough guy. I personally feel that the best way is via FI and turbo-prop as well if you read the posts, I just felt after a number of years I would never get the chance.. NOTE: I chose SSTR over FIC because I felt I couldn't survive on the salary in London after shelling out seven or so grand, and the TP interview was offered too late. Believe it or not I wish I had gone down that route.. for the experience, I still look up at TP's as they climb out of London City and wonder what it would be like. If I could suggest this one thing.. I am not trying to advertise SSTR's I have warned many on the perils of this route, so why am I here? I have many friends just like everybody else who are unemployed and my aim is to help those people with the little experience that I have. Could I suggest that instead of exchanging opinions, of which I am guilty, you could use your experience and state airlines, methods of contact info. etc etc so that the wannabes on this site could benefit from it.. this forum has become too much about discussion.
Hazehoe: I am not experienced, that is the issue, I come on here give my time to help, I give people info via PM's.. real facts. I don't have to do it.. if I didn't give a sh1t then I would come back from work check my e-mails and go straight to the pub to meet the boyz. You are the experienced one.. so offer your advice (with facts.. not opinions) to this audience with relevant info to recruitment today.
This is Interview, Jobs and Sponsorships section, the initial question was about F/O SSTR in the Far East, if anybody has any info about this please post as I think lookoutbelow did initially. Otherwise I think this thread should be brought to an end because it is going round in circles.. I have come here to help and I have ended up getting into a petty 'internet' tiff with individuals when usually I deal with things face to face and sort it.. I feel bloody pathethic so now I will go and hide in a corner and reflect
Good luck with the job hunting guys
Hazehoe: I am not experienced, that is the issue, I come on here give my time to help, I give people info via PM's.. real facts. I don't have to do it.. if I didn't give a sh1t then I would come back from work check my e-mails and go straight to the pub to meet the boyz. You are the experienced one.. so offer your advice (with facts.. not opinions) to this audience with relevant info to recruitment today.
This is Interview, Jobs and Sponsorships section, the initial question was about F/O SSTR in the Far East, if anybody has any info about this please post as I think lookoutbelow did initially. Otherwise I think this thread should be brought to an end because it is going round in circles.. I have come here to help and I have ended up getting into a petty 'internet' tiff with individuals when usually I deal with things face to face and sort it.. I feel bloody pathethic so now I will go and hide in a corner and reflect
Good luck with the job hunting guys
747 Downwind... you seem like a decent guy, and its nothing personal believe me. Good luck for the future, but expect some of us to "debate" the issues of the day... hope I didn't give offense, and I mean that sincerely. Cheers!
PS. I'm a nice chap... honest!
And back to the original question...
PS. I'm a nice chap... honest!
And back to the original question...
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747 Downwind thanks for the constructive debate, this is a passionate topic and lets all try and keep it civil.
As a whole, this industry is going downhill fast. Understand thet you are motivated and want to jump start your career but at what expense. Just think that now you guys have lowered the standard, where does this go next. If you were offered a LHS at 50% reduced salary would you take it? cause if you dont some guy with 300TT will have your job and prolly do it for free.... soon we will be paid less than the cleaner like in GA where does it stop.
Then when flying becomes a job and you have done the same sector so many times you could do it one handed and blind folded you will wonder why you can barely afford the rent in a sh*thole apartment and your car is older that the planes in the GA apron, It is only then you will understand what you guys have done to the industry
Please understand that we are Professionals, taking less pay/conditions that the Industry norm will to get ahead is only by devalueing all the hard work that you put into getting your licences and TR.
You dont have to pimp youself out to get a job!
Why are we accepting these lower pay and conditions when management "fat cats" salaries are going up.
Duff Shark
As a whole, this industry is going downhill fast. Understand thet you are motivated and want to jump start your career but at what expense. Just think that now you guys have lowered the standard, where does this go next. If you were offered a LHS at 50% reduced salary would you take it? cause if you dont some guy with 300TT will have your job and prolly do it for free.... soon we will be paid less than the cleaner like in GA where does it stop.
Then when flying becomes a job and you have done the same sector so many times you could do it one handed and blind folded you will wonder why you can barely afford the rent in a sh*thole apartment and your car is older that the planes in the GA apron, It is only then you will understand what you guys have done to the industry
Please understand that we are Professionals, taking less pay/conditions that the Industry norm will to get ahead is only by devalueing all the hard work that you put into getting your licences and TR.
You dont have to pimp youself out to get a job!
Why are we accepting these lower pay and conditions when management "fat cats" salaries are going up.
Duff Shark
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It's true that buying a TR and line training may accelerate your advancement to that 737 seat, but why is that the all-consuming goal? What is wrong with the slower route via TPs etc?............but the majority will have to look to the far more fulfilling longer route to that jet seat.
Got the CPL/IR, currently a full time FI (with daily retainer
) Met so many flying contacts through my club that no amount of letters could ever, ever match. Been safety pilot on VIP trips throughout Europe, all expenses paid, on private TP's. Off to Europe twice more with fly aways next year, all paid for. Been flying with so many interesting and like minded characters. I always enjoy their genuinely funny and refreshing stories. Also got to drive one of my mature students F360's by way of thankyou for helping him to nail steep turns to the right (!!!!!!!) All in a day's work with more fun and variety to come.
Also in a hold pool (thanks to my ever-expanding contacts book) for an airline that still provides free type ratings to their selected cadets, (no not BA.)
So my message is really to think about what you want from your flying and when you want it. You can either run to the brothel and snap up the one you want or you can walk to the brothel and have them all.
To fast-track force-pay yourself into a jet job means you will have few other aviation goals to look forward too as you are suddenly there in the holy grail of jet land! Your only other achievment will be to meet your extra £20,000 of loan repayments on time. From here on in, its just a question of how long do I now want to sit in a cockpit for? 3 hours or 12. Surely there's more to this game than that?
If you like, measure your flying career by seeing how many forums you are able to post in with authority. Don't let it just be Wannabees and then T&C's. You'll only become another whingher about the lack of money you're getting and it will hurt more with your unnecessary £20,000 SSTR loan still hanging over you.
By the looks of things, the only forum I'll be unable to post on in 18 months time will be Biz Jets & Military and I mean that with the sincerest respect because I am slowly getting what I want out of this career, a lovely feeling of variety!
Remember...you're a long time dead.
Craggs
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flash8 and duff shark: thankyou for your constructive comments. I shouldn't have lost my temper with a certain individual (NOT you two guys) and it somewhat blurred my post's intention.. to help these guys find work. I do believe that SSTRs undermine the industry, my decision was out of desperation and a personal view of acceptance. Ironically it may have worked out for me with a certain regional airline had I delayed my decision by 3 months.. and that is what I am trying to get across to wannabes. There are jobs and the turbo-prop market is recruiting low houred guys. Even some of the more established jet carriers are taking low houred guys/and those with air taxi and instructor experience.. good to see!!
Amazingly when I first heard of Ryanair and BOND offering SSTRs I steered well clear of the idea. I don't think it's right and I still don't think it is right. People may see me as a hypocrit therefore, but I only made the decision as I felt I would never have got a job otherwise.. perhaps I was wrong, but my one fear was NEVER getting a job.. not the wait, the hard work nor having to fly light aircraft.. it's all interesting and exciting stuff that gains you great experience, I just felt I would never be given a chance after a couple of years.
Just taking a tangent off the SSTR route.. to prevent guys paying for TRs you have to find another route that's practical and appealing. Compiling a list of air taxi ops.. as I think a recent post has done, and FTOs.. they take our money (profit) and then won't even pay for an FIC when they pay instructors peanuts. Agreed airline salaries have not inflated over the years in comparison to other professions.. but instructors and GA pilots get paid a pathetic salary. Surely FTOs can afford to pay more.. it is unfare that wannabes have to pay further for FIC when many are it debt.
Good luck with the jobs.. a lot going on ppjn and elsewhere
747 Downwind
Amazingly when I first heard of Ryanair and BOND offering SSTRs I steered well clear of the idea. I don't think it's right and I still don't think it is right. People may see me as a hypocrit therefore, but I only made the decision as I felt I would never have got a job otherwise.. perhaps I was wrong, but my one fear was NEVER getting a job.. not the wait, the hard work nor having to fly light aircraft.. it's all interesting and exciting stuff that gains you great experience, I just felt I would never be given a chance after a couple of years.
Just taking a tangent off the SSTR route.. to prevent guys paying for TRs you have to find another route that's practical and appealing. Compiling a list of air taxi ops.. as I think a recent post has done, and FTOs.. they take our money (profit) and then won't even pay for an FIC when they pay instructors peanuts. Agreed airline salaries have not inflated over the years in comparison to other professions.. but instructors and GA pilots get paid a pathetic salary. Surely FTOs can afford to pay more.. it is unfare that wannabes have to pay further for FIC when many are it debt.
Good luck with the jobs.. a lot going on ppjn and elsewhere
747 Downwind
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Perhaps it is time this discussion died, but I have one further point to make to the TR/line training afficionados: what are you going to talk about on the flight deck? One of the greatest pleasures I have in my job is discussing previous lives on fast jets/turboprops/flying round africa and all the hundreds of fascinating and different routes that my colleagues came to longhaul via. I haven't yet met anyone who went CPL/IR to 737 to A340. Just as well, as they wouldn't have much to talk about!
Scroggs
Scroggs
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Scroggs
Hard may it be for a lot of people on these forums to believe, but there is actually life outside of aviation and I happen to have and have had one, so that doesn't over worry me in terms of funding a TR sometime in the future.
I think you have three types of people involved in these discussions:
1) The people who are already in the left/right hand seat and are worried only by the fact that the people willing to get involved with SSTR are going to bring down their own T&C's.
2) You then have those who cannot afford to fund n SSTR and are worried that those who can are going to take the jobs from them, unfairly in their eyes.
3) The guys who can afford them, or who are willing to get themselves a bit more into debt for what will eventually lead to a much healthier bank balance and ability to finance loans.
Face it. Times appear to have changed. Some say goes become an instructor. Well, thanks but no thanks having seen various young guys at my FTO sitting around looking glum and having done so for a good couple of years. And to be honest I think I’d be a ****e instructor and why should some willing, paying student want to end up with me as their instructor?
When I set out in this game a few years ago my aim was to pilot passenger aircraft - as I believe everybody who enrols at OAT/FTE/Cabair does. I opted for modular for various reasons. OK, I am not being recommended to an airline, but I did save £27k, so in my eyes funding a SSTR is justified.
Good luck to you all, but remember you make your own luck to a large extent.
Hard may it be for a lot of people on these forums to believe, but there is actually life outside of aviation and I happen to have and have had one, so that doesn't over worry me in terms of funding a TR sometime in the future.
I think you have three types of people involved in these discussions:
1) The people who are already in the left/right hand seat and are worried only by the fact that the people willing to get involved with SSTR are going to bring down their own T&C's.
2) You then have those who cannot afford to fund n SSTR and are worried that those who can are going to take the jobs from them, unfairly in their eyes.
3) The guys who can afford them, or who are willing to get themselves a bit more into debt for what will eventually lead to a much healthier bank balance and ability to finance loans.
Face it. Times appear to have changed. Some say goes become an instructor. Well, thanks but no thanks having seen various young guys at my FTO sitting around looking glum and having done so for a good couple of years. And to be honest I think I’d be a ****e instructor and why should some willing, paying student want to end up with me as their instructor?
When I set out in this game a few years ago my aim was to pilot passenger aircraft - as I believe everybody who enrols at OAT/FTE/Cabair does. I opted for modular for various reasons. OK, I am not being recommended to an airline, but I did save £27k, so in my eyes funding a SSTR is justified.
Good luck to you all, but remember you make your own luck to a large extent.