Three Year Anniversary Blues?
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Three Year Anniversary Blues?
Hello Folks,
It's very strange being back here. It's been so long that I've had to re-register, couldn't for the life of me remember my old username and password. Nice new look though, WWW, like what you've done with the place.
It's a quiet afternoon, and I'm feeling nostalgic. Just thought it might be interesting to get a bit of feedback from all you wannabes on my little tale of "woe", and maybe it will squash forever some of the persistant "BA to start pilot sponsorship again imminently" rumours I still keep hearing from my aviator buddies.
Three years ago last weekend, 1st September 2001, I signed a training contract with BA under the older CEP. It had taken a long time to get there, several trips to The Rivers at Cranebank, a most thorough prod-and-poke at BA OH at Gatwick & CAA House,
and even a little fact finding trip to OATS at Kidlington. So to actually have a signed contract (training would start later that year) there in front of me was fab , life's dream etc, and it was up till then the best day of my life. To cap it all, that night england beat germany 5-1 in munich, and I won £10 on the lottery. Luck was going my way.
Then, just a few (10) days later came that awful Tuesday afternoon where the world changed. Like everyone I know, I watched those events live on TV, and knew in the pit of my stomach that as those towers fell, so did my training contract. I guess decency required I should be grateful I wasn't there and sure, I felt sorry for the victims. But I was affected too. Those around me tried to reassure me that "a big company like BA keeps it's contracts" and that sort of pat-on-the-back thing, and I remember a lot of grin-and-bear it posts on PPrune at the time, but such events were right there in the "force majeure" section of the contract, I knew I was stuffed. Sure enough, a "suspension" notice arrived quickly, then a "not till the end of the financial year" then I got an invite to some place called the Concorde Centre (rather like a members club, with a huge bar as I remember)where we all sat round a table and were told that this was the end of the line, but that BA was still committed to the CEP idea in principle. There were some very broken, crushed people in that room. I have a couple of friends in BA management, who to their credit, would always give me honest answers, however grim, and I knew that "committed in principle" translated as "not now, not next year, not for the foreseeable, and maybe not ever".
Part of me hoped things would change, but afghanistan, and the early rumblings about Iraq from the white house made me realise a career in the cockpit was out of my reach. No way could I self sponsor, not a chance. My Mum's a single parent, I'd just finsihed my first degree, and whilst we aren't poor, we are not exactly loaded. I would have to re-evaluate.
So I did, and after a short while doing temp jobs and office work ("aaaarrrrgggghhhhh!") I applied successfully to Nottingham's new graduate medical school. I am now about to start the second year of a 4 year fast track medical course , and I am loving it, though it's mind bendingly hard at times. Quite fancy cardiac surgery at the moment, but who knows? Being close to EMA means on a clear day like today you see lots of aircraft, and of course your mind wonders "what if?"
Yet everything I hear from my BA buddies is black, dark news. Be in no doubt, friends, the idea of corporate-paid ab intio training is deader than concorde. BA is not going to enter into that kind of risk or expense, and considers BA CEP to be the sort of decadent luxury associated with the hangover of nationalisation. There's more chance of Ryanair flying LHR-Auckland. Its gone, people. Give it up. Let go.
At weekends and holidays, I fly when I can, even if it's only gliders or, hell, hang-gliders. I still get the rush from being up there, and maybe there is something satisfyingly pure about a glider compared to a 747-400 after all. Its at those airfields I hear these ridiculous BA CEP resurrection rumours. I'm still in touch with a couple of people who had contracts like me back in 09/01. All of them have given up, moved on, and woken up. They might still fly as a hobby and might, like me, still tingle when they see a aircraft over head or step on one on the way to a summer holiday, but the dream is over. Mr Atta and his buddies jumped all over it.
So that's my little story, and I guess I'll leave it to you whether it has a happy ending or not. Look forward to reading your posts in reply, and please, please, if ever you bump into me at a little airfield as I clamber from my Piper, don't start talking to me about BA's new pilot programme. Or you might be needing one of my senior colleagues, sharpish!
Ta Ta,
ArranDreamer.
It's very strange being back here. It's been so long that I've had to re-register, couldn't for the life of me remember my old username and password. Nice new look though, WWW, like what you've done with the place.
It's a quiet afternoon, and I'm feeling nostalgic. Just thought it might be interesting to get a bit of feedback from all you wannabes on my little tale of "woe", and maybe it will squash forever some of the persistant "BA to start pilot sponsorship again imminently" rumours I still keep hearing from my aviator buddies.
Three years ago last weekend, 1st September 2001, I signed a training contract with BA under the older CEP. It had taken a long time to get there, several trips to The Rivers at Cranebank, a most thorough prod-and-poke at BA OH at Gatwick & CAA House,
and even a little fact finding trip to OATS at Kidlington. So to actually have a signed contract (training would start later that year) there in front of me was fab , life's dream etc, and it was up till then the best day of my life. To cap it all, that night england beat germany 5-1 in munich, and I won £10 on the lottery. Luck was going my way.
Then, just a few (10) days later came that awful Tuesday afternoon where the world changed. Like everyone I know, I watched those events live on TV, and knew in the pit of my stomach that as those towers fell, so did my training contract. I guess decency required I should be grateful I wasn't there and sure, I felt sorry for the victims. But I was affected too. Those around me tried to reassure me that "a big company like BA keeps it's contracts" and that sort of pat-on-the-back thing, and I remember a lot of grin-and-bear it posts on PPrune at the time, but such events were right there in the "force majeure" section of the contract, I knew I was stuffed. Sure enough, a "suspension" notice arrived quickly, then a "not till the end of the financial year" then I got an invite to some place called the Concorde Centre (rather like a members club, with a huge bar as I remember)where we all sat round a table and were told that this was the end of the line, but that BA was still committed to the CEP idea in principle. There were some very broken, crushed people in that room. I have a couple of friends in BA management, who to their credit, would always give me honest answers, however grim, and I knew that "committed in principle" translated as "not now, not next year, not for the foreseeable, and maybe not ever".
Part of me hoped things would change, but afghanistan, and the early rumblings about Iraq from the white house made me realise a career in the cockpit was out of my reach. No way could I self sponsor, not a chance. My Mum's a single parent, I'd just finsihed my first degree, and whilst we aren't poor, we are not exactly loaded. I would have to re-evaluate.
So I did, and after a short while doing temp jobs and office work ("aaaarrrrgggghhhhh!") I applied successfully to Nottingham's new graduate medical school. I am now about to start the second year of a 4 year fast track medical course , and I am loving it, though it's mind bendingly hard at times. Quite fancy cardiac surgery at the moment, but who knows? Being close to EMA means on a clear day like today you see lots of aircraft, and of course your mind wonders "what if?"
Yet everything I hear from my BA buddies is black, dark news. Be in no doubt, friends, the idea of corporate-paid ab intio training is deader than concorde. BA is not going to enter into that kind of risk or expense, and considers BA CEP to be the sort of decadent luxury associated with the hangover of nationalisation. There's more chance of Ryanair flying LHR-Auckland. Its gone, people. Give it up. Let go.
At weekends and holidays, I fly when I can, even if it's only gliders or, hell, hang-gliders. I still get the rush from being up there, and maybe there is something satisfyingly pure about a glider compared to a 747-400 after all. Its at those airfields I hear these ridiculous BA CEP resurrection rumours. I'm still in touch with a couple of people who had contracts like me back in 09/01. All of them have given up, moved on, and woken up. They might still fly as a hobby and might, like me, still tingle when they see a aircraft over head or step on one on the way to a summer holiday, but the dream is over. Mr Atta and his buddies jumped all over it.
So that's my little story, and I guess I'll leave it to you whether it has a happy ending or not. Look forward to reading your posts in reply, and please, please, if ever you bump into me at a little airfield as I clamber from my Piper, don't start talking to me about BA's new pilot programme. Or you might be needing one of my senior colleagues, sharpish!
Ta Ta,
ArranDreamer.
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Arran dreamer
You sound like a driven and intelligent guy so all i'll say to you is dont give up.
Become a doctor and work like a bastard to get your money together and do it bit by bit.
You've already answered any questions/doubts you might have and you know that in 30 years time looking out from your million pound mansion catching a reflection of a jet in your Jags gleaming paint work will really piss you off.
Im sure it wont be easy and many obstacles in the way but i can guarantee that it will all be worth it.
Good luck
You sound like a driven and intelligent guy so all i'll say to you is dont give up.
Become a doctor and work like a bastard to get your money together and do it bit by bit.
Being close to EMA means on a clear day like today you see lots of aircraft, and of course your mind wonders "what if?"
Im sure it wont be easy and many obstacles in the way but i can guarantee that it will all be worth it.
Good luck
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Alternatively, becoming a Doctor will eventually bring in enough money to have a good lifestyle and fly a decent aircraft purely for fun. The challenge of obtaining multi and instrument ratings is still there.
The job of airline pilot isn't what it used to be. The glamour and money have gone and there are more exhausted 'no frills' pilots than skygods.
The job of airline pilot isn't what it used to be. The glamour and money have gone and there are more exhausted 'no frills' pilots than skygods.
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Look on the bright side, when your a rich doctor you can buy yourself a shiny new G5.
If you ever need someone to come and fly it with you my contact details are as follows.......
If you ever need someone to come and fly it with you my contact details are as follows.......
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In hindsight, my days flying gliders provided me with some of my fondest flying memories. Join the PFA, build an RV4 or buy a share in a J3 - thats what the big boys do when they want to do some real flying anyway!
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ArranDreamer,
That was the best post I think I have ever read on Pprune.
You capture the climate of aviation now perfectly, "It's gone people, give it up, let it go".
That is so true. People should take stock of their lives as you have done (to such a brilliant cause as well) and realize that of course dreams are what life is about, but we all do need to take a reality check sometimes.
I would rather have achieved something by the time my cards are up, rather than just facing heartache, more rejection letters and increasing debts.
Great post again, I hope other people will make such an informed and sensible choice as you have.
That was the best post I think I have ever read on Pprune.
You capture the climate of aviation now perfectly, "It's gone people, give it up, let it go".
That is so true. People should take stock of their lives as you have done (to such a brilliant cause as well) and realize that of course dreams are what life is about, but we all do need to take a reality check sometimes.
I would rather have achieved something by the time my cards are up, rather than just facing heartache, more rejection letters and increasing debts.
Great post again, I hope other people will make such an informed and sensible choice as you have.
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Arrandreamer, that's an excellent post. It sums up what many, many wannabes go through - and most get nowhere near a scholarship! As you have realised, sometimes dreams are unachievable through no fault of your own, and you have to move on in another direction. I'm sure medicine will give you great satisfaction, and it's very true that you may eventually earn enough to run (or have a share in) your own aircraft - many professional pilots do the same just so that they can get a 'fix' of real flying! It's a lot more fun than driving a big jet, believe me!
Scroggs
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With reference to comments made by Sammyhostie. I agree that it was a very good post but I think your comments about giving up are a bit off mark.
Some of us have had to sacrifice an awful lot to be in the position to be able to actually apply for jobs. Yes I have had many rejection letters and yes I have a lot of money to pay back for my flying training but after all this things are looking up for me. If everyone went into their flying training thinking I dont want to get a load of rejection letters then there would be no pilots.
My reality check is sh1t ive got loads of debts and rejection letters but im in too deep now!
Some of us have had to sacrifice an awful lot to be in the position to be able to actually apply for jobs. Yes I have had many rejection letters and yes I have a lot of money to pay back for my flying training but after all this things are looking up for me. If everyone went into their flying training thinking I dont want to get a load of rejection letters then there would be no pilots.
My reality check is sh1t ive got loads of debts and rejection letters but im in too deep now!
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The job of airline pilot isn't what it used to be. The glamour and money have gone and there are more exhausted 'no frills' pilots than skygods.
There is a lot more than Glamour and Money to the job. I have just come back from one of the best days flying with beautiful views in this gin clear wx. Stunning sights across the country, good interaction with the crew and the challege of a landing or two. I, like most of you guys are up to my tits in debt but on days like this you find yourself saying "i'd do it all again".
The glamour is still there and the money...well im not really in it for that but i get by.
Sammy
My reality check was several years ago but changed tack borrowed more mnoey and moved on, Couple of years later reality check changed tack again and moved on. Two years ago moved out of avaiation but kept part time instructing and moved on. One year ago offered a job. Time taken over 6 years but never gave up never.
No one said that this would be easy and i find it disheartning when i see you guys having to take that reality check and give up. But use it as a reason for even more determination to get to that RHS.
I'm sure medicine will give you great satisfaction
Im sure even Scroggs after 14 hours flying across the world bleary eyed and knackered will say that when you get there and your having a few pints with the crew overlooking the Caribbean sea (with no hurricanes around) its worth it.
There will be days when you'll look in the mirror and be driven to tears but use this to your advantage build on it and say i am a PILOT or you can give up. Choice is yours!
Come on Arran keep fighting, if your gonna go down, then go down kicking and screaming until your too old to fly.
My mates (both in and out of avaiation) say that the one thing they admire about me (probably the only thing) is that i never gave up with every PFO or getting so close i could taste it i never gave up and its paid off.
First Officer Flaps to 60
Ps Become an AME get paid plenty do your licence and make sure all your patients are Chief Pilots.
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Tough break. But you'll get little sympathy from me. (It doesn't sound as though you want, or need any.)
BTW, I had bugger all money a few years ago. My single mum had bugger all money too. You can work to get the money if it is really what you want to do. Besides, there are other schemes, although not quite as similar to the old BA scheme, available today.
Good luck with the medical career.
BTW, I had bugger all money a few years ago. My single mum had bugger all money too. You can work to get the money if it is really what you want to do. Besides, there are other schemes, although not quite as similar to the old BA scheme, available today.
Good luck with the medical career.
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Arran - join the Royal Army Medical Corps, and then cross train to fly. Buzzing round in a Lynx climbing to cross hedges has go to be the best fun to be had below 500 kts/250 ft.
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Maybe give up for a while
Arran,
I'm really sorry to hear about your experience - it parallels mine in many ways. I got as far as waiting for the final interview for the old BA Cadet scheme in 1991 while at University when the Gulf War sent my plans down the tubes. Like you I gave up on the dream, but only for 10 years!! Decided to start doing a PPL, then realised that buzzing around at weekends would never be enough and am now about 3 months away from finishing at OATS.
I really hope medicine works out for you, believe me it will be a smoother ride if it does! On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if ten or so years from now you don't decide to resurrect the dream again as I have done!
Good luck and I hope whatever path you choose works out for you.
Desk-pilot
I'm really sorry to hear about your experience - it parallels mine in many ways. I got as far as waiting for the final interview for the old BA Cadet scheme in 1991 while at University when the Gulf War sent my plans down the tubes. Like you I gave up on the dream, but only for 10 years!! Decided to start doing a PPL, then realised that buzzing around at weekends would never be enough and am now about 3 months away from finishing at OATS.
I really hope medicine works out for you, believe me it will be a smoother ride if it does! On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if ten or so years from now you don't decide to resurrect the dream again as I have done!
Good luck and I hope whatever path you choose works out for you.
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Heh heh heh. It's harder to walk away from than you think. I tried convincing myself of that 12 years ago, and was rather successful at kidding myself along for a long time. Then one day, completely out of the blue, something happened that rekindled that dormant flame of aviating desire and it damn near burnt my house down it took hold so quickly. Surprised the hell out of me.
Started all over again, though this time on the civvy side of the fence, and though I've been waiting 2 years for a multi-crew position and never been poorer, I have no regrets about any of it and would do it all again tomorrow. You'll have to prise my career ambitions out of my cold, dead hands.
Started all over again, though this time on the civvy side of the fence, and though I've been waiting 2 years for a multi-crew position and never been poorer, I have no regrets about any of it and would do it all again tomorrow. You'll have to prise my career ambitions out of my cold, dead hands.
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As you may gather from my name I am a pharmacist.
The NHS today is probably like the airline and probably every other industry in the world in that they want to get as much out of you in return for the littlest reward they can get away with.
Yes a senior Dr. can command salaries of £60k but the number of hours away from home can equate to a pilot. Night shifts, on-calls overnight in a single bed on the ward, 24 hour shifts. Rather similar to pilot's hours if you ask me.
I find that the NHS is a bad model for running a healthcare system as "Free Health" leads to abuse of the system and in turn leads to a higher workload for us practitioners.
I find most of my day involved with elderly or unemployed people returning day after day to claim their "free prescriptions", this is due to lonliness and boredom. They get up in the morning and think,what will I do today? Ding! I'll go to the Dr then he/she'll give me a prescription then I'll go to the pharmacy and get stuff for free and that'll fill my morning. Believe me it is the same faces everyday you see who don't need treatment, they just want company. It's not a social health system we have it is a social life for the elderly. My friend is a paramedic and says the same, old buddies deciding they want a week-end in the hospital every other week as a wee break for them. In the end what I'm saying is that it gets repetitive.
I at the moment am doing my ATPL's. The money as a pilot may be less but as soon as I get out of a system that is totally abused and for which I pay for with my taxes the better!
The NHS today is probably like the airline and probably every other industry in the world in that they want to get as much out of you in return for the littlest reward they can get away with.
Yes a senior Dr. can command salaries of £60k but the number of hours away from home can equate to a pilot. Night shifts, on-calls overnight in a single bed on the ward, 24 hour shifts. Rather similar to pilot's hours if you ask me.
I find that the NHS is a bad model for running a healthcare system as "Free Health" leads to abuse of the system and in turn leads to a higher workload for us practitioners.
I find most of my day involved with elderly or unemployed people returning day after day to claim their "free prescriptions", this is due to lonliness and boredom. They get up in the morning and think,what will I do today? Ding! I'll go to the Dr then he/she'll give me a prescription then I'll go to the pharmacy and get stuff for free and that'll fill my morning. Believe me it is the same faces everyday you see who don't need treatment, they just want company. It's not a social health system we have it is a social life for the elderly. My friend is a paramedic and says the same, old buddies deciding they want a week-end in the hospital every other week as a wee break for them. In the end what I'm saying is that it gets repetitive.
I at the moment am doing my ATPL's. The money as a pilot may be less but as soon as I get out of a system that is totally abused and for which I pay for with my taxes the better!
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Thank you all for your replies, they make very interesting reading. Certainly more interesting than "advanced clinical physiology".
I don't see myself as giving up per se, more changed direction. I still fly, but it's a hobby not a job. Maybe that's why it still gives me a thrill. And my day job ain't that bad either. I don't have much to complain about really.
Oh, and BritishGuy, if you're really interested, then the website to go to is:
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/prospect...ml?code=012760
Ta Ta people, and thanks again for listening,
AD.
I don't see myself as giving up per se, more changed direction. I still fly, but it's a hobby not a job. Maybe that's why it still gives me a thrill. And my day job ain't that bad either. I don't have much to complain about really.
Oh, and BritishGuy, if you're really interested, then the website to go to is:
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/prospect...ml?code=012760
Ta Ta people, and thanks again for listening,
AD.
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There are a few posters on other threads that could do with reading this one! There seems to be an abiding feeling/desire/irrational belief that 'everything will eventually return to normal, the world will settle down and find itself the right way up and someone will pay for my training, etc etc etc etc'
It's not going to happen and perhaps it's for the best. OK, hold fire with the flame - let me explain:
In the Good Old Days, plenty of people made it into airlines on sponsorship schemes, paid very little towards their training or at least had an almost certainty of a job at the end of it all. As a result, a lot of pilots became such by default, rather than through a real desire to live a dream. As with any career, it's a lot easier to keep enjoying your chosen path if you really, really , REALLY wanted it in the first place. (It would be an interesting study to find out whether those pilots involved in excessive drinking binges etc etc were self-sponsored or not...hmm, [smells research project]!)
However, the world changed on September 11th, and before you start gagging, I think we lay too much at the feet of the great god of disaster. Many airlines were in financial poo before that morning and would eventually have slid into bankruptcy or been bailed out. It was a good - OK, bad choice of words - effective catalyst that made the inevitable happen faster. After 9/11 no airline could be accused of bad business practice if they downscaled massively. And they have. AND they have also discovered that they don't necessarily have to fork out for training pilots - there is a large enough pool of trained pilots and enough wannabes who are willing to risk everything for their dream. Airline management are businessmen first and foremost and will find whatever way they can to save money.
There is an endless discussion on another thread about paying for type-ratings and although the point is well made that us being willing to do so makes the airlines less likely to, we all have to realise that if you don't, someone else will. They days of (financially) easy routes into airlines are gone - they may make a slight recovery, but I very much doubt whether they will ever be back in the same way - wannabes have proved to the airlines that many of us will do whatever it takes to get the job we want -rich daddy to pay for it all or not (BTW - any rich daddies out there, please send details to Air Born at Box 1234).
This has been a long post - Oi you guys in the back - wake up!
It's not going to happen and perhaps it's for the best. OK, hold fire with the flame - let me explain:
In the Good Old Days, plenty of people made it into airlines on sponsorship schemes, paid very little towards their training or at least had an almost certainty of a job at the end of it all. As a result, a lot of pilots became such by default, rather than through a real desire to live a dream. As with any career, it's a lot easier to keep enjoying your chosen path if you really, really , REALLY wanted it in the first place. (It would be an interesting study to find out whether those pilots involved in excessive drinking binges etc etc were self-sponsored or not...hmm, [smells research project]!)
However, the world changed on September 11th, and before you start gagging, I think we lay too much at the feet of the great god of disaster. Many airlines were in financial poo before that morning and would eventually have slid into bankruptcy or been bailed out. It was a good - OK, bad choice of words - effective catalyst that made the inevitable happen faster. After 9/11 no airline could be accused of bad business practice if they downscaled massively. And they have. AND they have also discovered that they don't necessarily have to fork out for training pilots - there is a large enough pool of trained pilots and enough wannabes who are willing to risk everything for their dream. Airline management are businessmen first and foremost and will find whatever way they can to save money.
There is an endless discussion on another thread about paying for type-ratings and although the point is well made that us being willing to do so makes the airlines less likely to, we all have to realise that if you don't, someone else will. They days of (financially) easy routes into airlines are gone - they may make a slight recovery, but I very much doubt whether they will ever be back in the same way - wannabes have proved to the airlines that many of us will do whatever it takes to get the job we want -rich daddy to pay for it all or not (BTW - any rich daddies out there, please send details to Air Born at Box 1234).
This has been a long post - Oi you guys in the back - wake up!
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Makes a change something different on Prune....Nice Post Aran !
We had a Dr on a parallel course at OATS and whilst he was sponsored by bmi i'm sure he said he would have made the switch over at some point in his career. It wasn't just the medical profession that was represented at OATS, but all sorts, city bankers, lawyers...etc. All who had made enough money to see their dreams come true. If your determined enough it will happen.
Good Luck
sp
We had a Dr on a parallel course at OATS and whilst he was sponsored by bmi i'm sure he said he would have made the switch over at some point in his career. It wasn't just the medical profession that was represented at OATS, but all sorts, city bankers, lawyers...etc. All who had made enough money to see their dreams come true. If your determined enough it will happen.
Good Luck
sp
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Demand and Supply
Good choice.. I work in a medical school...
Id stick with medicine its a people job with technical challenges and it pays well - its the career par excellence
A medical degree is a guarantee of a well paid job. There is a shortage of doctors.
Its a sad fact that there are too many pro-pilots.
Many doctors can afford their run own aircraft.
Pilots are working harder nowadays for less money.
Doctors work hard but they have more choice of where when and what they do...they are in demand...
Id stick with medicine its a people job with technical challenges and it pays well - its the career par excellence
A medical degree is a guarantee of a well paid job. There is a shortage of doctors.
Its a sad fact that there are too many pro-pilots.
Many doctors can afford their run own aircraft.
Pilots are working harder nowadays for less money.
Doctors work hard but they have more choice of where when and what they do...they are in demand...