Bourne Scuttles Woerth's re-election

[sky652]

Just in from the Board of Directors meeting in Las Vegas, NV:

Duane E. Woerth was upset by John Prater (Continental) in the election for President of ALPA!

Apparently, Dave Bourne's introductry speech on behalf of Woerth was hailed as a liability due to Bournes lack of leadership and direction to his crewmembers during the Polar Air Cargo strike..

[WhaleDriver]

Originally Posted by sky652

Just in from the Board of Directors meeting in Las Vegas, NV:
Apparently, Dave Bourne's introductry speech on behalf of Woerth was hailed as a liability due to Bournes lack of leadership and direction to his crewmembers during the Polar Air Cargo strike..

Another one post wonder. Wonder where this came from? Just in from where? Any proof of this statment from anyone other than the Polar MEC, of course not, more Polar BS!

And other posters here want us to give in and join hands with these people? Trust me, we've tried. They walk into mediation and say, "It's our way or the highway". No wonder they have 5 arbitrations and a lawsuit going, just in the last six months! Your ALPA dues going down the drain!

[WhaleFR8]

Standing Ovation

ALPA Board of directors meeting -

1600 people in attendance -

ALPA President introducing Atlas pilot groups as the biggest supporters of the Polar strike -

Standing Ovation for Atlas Pilots given by all -

Watching Bobbbb Henderson and the Polar MEC STAND AND APPLAUD!

Priceless!!

[mercpc9]

Originally Posted by furloughfodder

This is true, although you will probably not see too many of the Atlas guys trying to explain their way out of this. Maybe they can put together another powerpoint.

The Atlas Air Cargo MEC and much of its membership was fully behind Duane Woerth. They had no choice but to support him because of the sweetheart deal he cut them during the Polar strike when they undermined the strike efforts.

Wow furloughfodder, I thought you were on furlough from Polar? I guess old Bobbbb Henderson paid your expenses as a furloughed non-dues paying member just to go to the Board of Directors? Wouldn't be the first time old Bobbbb used union funds illegally.

OR

Maybe your just saying what old Bobbbb asked you to say, again.


On a side note, is Prater still being investigated for fraudulent use of union funds or has that gone away?

sky652-
I hope your not one of those one time posters like "Scab_Announcer". It would be nice to have someone new to debate. That is, if you really are someone new.

[sky652]

Yes, new to pprune.. Always looking for a good debate! How about limiting MEC's to 1 term!

[mercpc9]

Originally Posted by sky652

Yes, new to pprune.. Always looking for a good debate! How about limiting MEC's to 1 term!

Judging from your initial post, I had to check it out and called around to some third party guys. Doesn't seem to hold up under scrutiny.

Anyhow, instead of posting the long emailed Atlas VARS message which contains even more witnesses to refute what you said, I thought I would just post the audio message. It hits on a lot of inhouse stuff, but it gets to the BOD meeting. Keep your pencils handy.

Atlas VARS RealPlayer Audio

If you don't have it, here is the RealPlayer program download
FREE PLAYER

[mercpc9]

Warped memory

Originally Posted by furloughfodder

Let me get this straight. You guys at Atlas are now applying for Battlestar Wings? (These are the ALPA wings with a small star above them).

Historically, these wings have only gone to pilot groups that have endured the hardship and courage of going on strike.

Acutally, it was asked by Members of the Executive Council to submit a request for them. Not Atlas. I see you can't listen very well.

Originally Posted by furloughfodder

Now we have a pilot group that has NEVER been on strike (they always cave in to managements demands at the last minute), with many members that are scabs from Eastern and other airlines (Polar has NEVER hired a single scab, Atlas has at least a dozen on their list RIGHT NOW)

We have to thank Polar and their MEC Bob Fell for volunteering in the last 15 minutes of our countdown to strike for that. Fell volunteered you and your membership to fly our previously agreed upon struck aircraft and work. Thanks guys, we have to live with how you supported us every day now.

Half of Atlas management are scabs or ex-Lorenzo staff from Eastern. Since they are the one's that hire the crews, don't you think they would bring some of them on? Why do you think we have anything to do with who they hire? We don't. Just like we couldn't do a thing about the hired replacement pilot group in STN (AACS) they put together to help you (Polar) screw us on our countdown to strike.

Originally Posted by furloughfodder

, trying to obtain Battlestars for a strike they helped to undermine, along with management. If you do get these wings, how embarrassing it is going to be when someone asks you how you got them.

You guys at Atlas are pathetic.

Your right, it will be embarrasing.

It will be a constant reminder of how we at Atlas conducted a work action, risking our jobs at no benefit or gain for ourselves for another group (polar). The first one on record for cargo airlines in ALPA history. All for another group and airline that has never reciprocated any support for the Atlas membership. A group which at every turn has attempted to undermine the Atlas membership to their own advantage throughout their relationship.

Maybe a few thousand ALPA members recognition should give you a clue, but I don't think your smart enough for that. Also indicating who is truly pathetic here.

Anyhow, I guess a repeat of the slideshow is in order:

Polar Behaving Badly

[ship's power]

Mercpc9 -- All of this bad history sounds pretty ominous. What would it take for Polar to fix it (other than tossing Fell into Homer Bay with a fancy set of concrete shoes)?

[WhaleDriver]

Originally Posted by ship's power

Mercpc9 -- All of this bad history sounds pretty ominous. What would it take for Polar to fix it (other than tossing Fell into Homer Bay with a fancy set of concrete shoes)?

Ship's Power's.... I want you to know, you are only the second person to ask this question on any of the major public boards. Amazing considering the space we have taken up battling each other. I believe the first time was someone from the outside, asking to see if there was a way to fix this mess.

This question was also asked during a Polar conference call before the strike and the poor guy was jumped on so quickly, he didn't have a prayer.

I hesitate to speak for the entire memebership. I would guess that the first step would be to acknowledge the actions of the Polar MEC in the last 15 minutes of our cooling off period. We've been called all sorts of things over this one. This would open the door.

[mercpc9]

Originally Posted by ship's power

Mercpc9 -- All of this bad history sounds pretty ominous. What would it take for Polar to fix it (other than tossing Fell into Homer Bay with a fancy set of concrete shoes)?

I'd say it is more than Fell. Henderson has been confirmed by a number of third parties folks saying one thing to us at Atlas and then something completely different and usually derogatory in our absence. Who knows what he says in the presence of the Polar membership by themselves.

Henderson was also afforded access to our membership by the Atlas MEC at least twice that I can remember (VARS message and at a council meeting) saying we should work together. Immediately later, he was saying we were scabs in the hallways of ALPA in Herndon for everyone to hear and in other places long before any countdown or strike. Our MEC was never afforded any access to the Polar membership. That's what our relationship has been like pretty much from inception with Fell and Henderson. One way.

So it's deeper than just Fell and Henderson. It's also with a list of other's not worth mentioning but play major roles within the Polar council.

It seems the Atlas membership is falling back onto the old adage "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." This would be the third time if attempted.

As much as I want us to be a true team and fight together, I would say any Atlas MEC member would be committing political suicide attempting to form another failing relationship with the Polar MEC. Judging from the postings here and conference calls I've inappropriately listened in on at Polar, I would say at least the same on the Polar side.

[mercpc9]

Originally Posted by furloughfodder

I wish you guys would please tell the truth about this "last 15 minutes" before the cooling off period.

Again, here is how it went (abbreviated):

Management told the Atlas MEC that they were moving aircraft and flying over to Polar if Atlas were to go on strike. Neither the Polar MEC nor the Atlas MEC have any control which group flies the Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings aircraft. It is the same thing that is happening right now, as Polar shrinks to nothing and Atlas is expanding.... Atlas grows and Polar furloughs.... Polar grows and Atlas furloughs.... it is a tactic by management to separate the groups.

Management tried the exact same thing before we went on strike if you remember. They even took it a step further, firing 42 probationary Polar crewmembers, and moving 5 airplanes over to Atlas (which you guys all flew, do to no fault of your own).

Do you really think the Polar MEC had the power to go into management in the last 15 minutes of your cooling off period and whisper, "Hey, we'll fly all those trips!" or that they really told management that they will disregard the ALPA agreed upon struck work rules and banish themselves from ALPA forever?

Some of what you said is correct. Polar did get about 5 A/C long before our countdown. That was known and expected with 170 furloughed Atlas pilots and 150 later on.

Polar (Fell) was actually consulted during the Atlas cool down period on a strike agreement. Polar MEC agreed with the Atlas MEC not to fly any more Atlas A/C and contracts when we went on strike. Everything was great until about 15 minutes before release. Then Bob called to advise Dave Bourne the company was going to give Polar 5 more A/C and 5 new ACMI contracts (turned out to be our China Airlines Contracts) and wanted relief from the previously agreed to struck work agreement. Fell also made himself unreachable after the initial call to Bourne and the ALPA National witness.

Instead of typing the verification on the 15 minutes all again. Here is one on another thread. Witness is separate of Polar and Atlas MEC's
Click Here Opens New window Close to Come Back

Funny how you realize the pulling of A/C over to Polar and then later back to Atlas as a normal tactic of management, but your MEC Chairman doesn't and calls us scabs. Partial email quote from Bobb Henderson to Atlas MEC Dave Bourne. Also shown on the Polar Behaving Badly slide show. There is a full copy available on record. It is a request by Bobb H. for an illegal job action on Atlas crews part while calling us a scabs at the same time. Typical. Funny how Henderson forgot where the A/C and contracts came from to begin with and who lost jobs first (Atlas). The 5 previously mentioned A/C and furloughed Atlas crewmembers. I guess it is only important to protect Polar jobs.

Originally Posted by Bobb Henderson

You need to SLAM our current management practices and the way they are using threatening labor tactics and assure your crews that they need to support Polar, because they are next. We need your crewmembers to refrain from picking up any of the extra open time that will be generated by these airplanes moving to Atlas this next week. From our eyes your crewmembers will be seen as taking advantage and benefiting the current situation and our demise. Being an X-Eastern guy I look at these individuals who pick up this new work while we are in a cooling off period as SCABS and flying SCAB work. I know this 400 is going to fly a ACMI contract. That is not the point. The point is that is being transferred to Atlas in retaliation for Polar getting to the 30 day cooling off. We are actually staffed for this airplane and have been crewing it for several years.

Originally Posted by furloughfodder

I can also promise you that a pilot group as strong and unified as Polar would have supported you and the struck flights that management might have tried to shove on us.

I have a hard time believing that if your MEC says go to work and your company says go to work that you would stand fast and say "no". ALPA legal would say your S.O.L along with Atlas crewmembers.

Originally Posted by furloughfodder

I am just not sure you guys deserve a Battle Pin. None of you lost any pay, none of you have ever gone on strike, and you endured no hardships during the Polar strike. In fact you were able to pick up a heck of a lot of open time and make extra money. But if you want the pin so bad you can have mine, if I can dig it out of the trash can.

At the time, there were no guarantees that our guys wouldn't get fired (the first guy was fired for not crossing). All were getting their pay withheld if they didn't fly when scheduled. Our work action was a risk. All done for the benefit of another and separate airline. Only later, when ALPA National oversaw the return to work agreement, did our guys get it in writing that they would be repaid and reinstated. National required it, the Polar MEC didn't give a flip according to Duane Woerth ALPA President. Many did miss a paycheck(or part of) because of it, although they got it back later. All in support of Polar while constantly being called names by the guys they were supporting. Needless to say, there were many other issues like court orders and our other non-polar customers that Polar claims as theirs post facto.

We at Atlas did gain something though, beside another kick in the teeth by Polar. We now have a court order #2 that upheald our right not to cross a legal picket line which was always in doubt even by ALPA legal's interpretation. Court order #1 required us to fly anything assigned after the initial work action we started.

Personally, I don't give a flip about any pin. I have endured many more hardships in my life and have the scar tissue and extra copper jacketed lead bits to prove it. I just don't want to see my group used as a scapegoat for another councils mistakes.

[ship's power]

Originally Posted by mercpc9

I'd say it is more than Fell. Henderson has been confirmed by a number of third parties folks saying one thing to us at Atlas and then something completely different . . .

As much as I want us to be a true team and fight together, I would say any Atlas MEC member would be committing political suicide attempting to form another failing relationship with the Polar MEC.. . .
. . . I would say at least the same on the Polar side.

Merc - Your sentiments seem accurate. I now understand the problem.

In Henderson's defense, I suspect that he's a different person than he was 5 years ago. Tempered with adversity, his experience today has given him a more accurate and larger overall situational focus. He has grown and has become far more sophisticated than he once was (I admit however that in the past, despite his true beliefs, he may have unwittingly danced to the different groups that pressured him - A strong leader must have the resilient internal character to avoid that). To bad past ignorance and fo'pah's (sp?) played such a large roll in this. Henderson want's to be an exceptional labor leader, however I suspect he now has regrets. He would probably have managed his membership differently if given another chance in history (but that's the learning curve). It cannot be denied that Polar's "proof is in the pudding" as evidenced as to where it's labor force is today. With proper synergies, the Atlas/Polar group should be kicking Cato in his pant's about now..

The Atlas pilot who drew blood (was initially fired for refusing to cross Polar's picket line) - Why is his name not well known? Why isn't he held up by crews as a hero example, with his actions exemplified?

When growing up in the 60's and 70's, my dream was to work for Tigers. There, the pilot group gave management fits (later evidenced as to why former Tiger mngr Ned Wallace despised his Polar pilots). Pilots were king! About 4 months prior to Polar's strike, I had a layover in PIK . My fellow crewmembers were preoccupied, so I invited myself to go to dinner with two Atlas crews. All had a great time and the event was memorable (even part of this topic was amiably discussed). . . . . What a shame animosity exists. . . . Collectively, our situation today should be far more respectable within AAWW.

[ship's power]

Originally Posted by WhaleDriver

Ship's Power's.... I want you to know . . . ., . . . I would guess that the first step would be to acknowledge the actions of the Polar MEC in the last 15 minutes of our cooling off period. We've been called all sorts of things over this one. This would open the door.

Noted -

It also should be known that R. Fell's influence/actions (as relted to Polar's MEC) are fading. He doesn't even fly much anymore. Polar's membership would be wise to put an end to this. One problem is that membership/MEC communication has been inherently poor and much complained about, however with good intentions to fix it.

[sky652]

Originally Posted by mercpc9

Judging from your initial post, I had to check it out and called around to some third party guys. Doesn't seemed to hold up under scrutiny.

Anyhow, instead of posting the long emailed Atlas VARS message which contains even more witnesses to refute what you said, I thought I would just post the audio message. It hits on a lot of inhouse stuff, but it gets to the BOD meeting. Keep your pencils handy.

Atlas VARS RealPlayer Audio

Really? Did Bourne give the speech? Was Woerth Re-Elected? The whole Bourne-Woerth relationship kind of sheds a SPOTLIGHT on events during and after the Polar strike.. Pins with the star? WTF are these guys smoking?

[mercpc9]

Originally Posted by sky652

Really? Did Bourne give the speech? Was Woerth Re-Elected? The whole Bourne-Woerth relationship kind of sheds a SPOTLIGHT on events during and after the Polar strike.. Pins with the star? WTF are these guys smoking?

Beats me. What have you been free basing?

Instead of just ranting like so many before, why don't you come up with something to back up what you say?

Heard that you won an arbitration. Congrats. At the same time, I am told that Atlas management has a plan B that you won't like.

[mercpc9]

Originally Posted by furloughfodder

Spoken like true management.

I'm not, but I can look at least two steps ahead unlike you.

Which is reflected in most of your councils failures and posts. You should learn to do more than grab at the carrot management and your greed has put in front of your face.