Emerald and the CAA
AVIATOR 2,
MOB, Leopard, spots. Need I say more?
Say Again Slowly,
Agree with most of your reply to Aviator 2.
When I was there the company lurched from one crisis to the next and my time there is just one bad memory which has mostly been erased with the passage of time. Frequently heard Ops Controllers complaining that they were fed up of "kicking the flying program round every night" and wishing for a night shift where one (or more) of the budgies didn't break down.
Some good people though, all undervalued and frequently abused by the man who told the staff that EA couldn't afford to give them a payrise that year and then bought himself a new company Lexus to reward himself for the saving! Yeah, AVIATOR 2, he is a great bloke.
Good luck to the start up, just keep HIM away from it!!
Doc C
MOB, Leopard, spots. Need I say more?
Say Again Slowly,
Agree with most of your reply to Aviator 2.
When I was there the company lurched from one crisis to the next and my time there is just one bad memory which has mostly been erased with the passage of time. Frequently heard Ops Controllers complaining that they were fed up of "kicking the flying program round every night" and wishing for a night shift where one (or more) of the budgies didn't break down.
Some good people though, all undervalued and frequently abused by the man who told the staff that EA couldn't afford to give them a payrise that year and then bought himself a new company Lexus to reward himself for the saving! Yeah, AVIATOR 2, he is a great bloke.
Good luck to the start up, just keep HIM away from it!!
Doc C
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And another one has crawled from underneath their stone.
Another thread needs to be started for the re-start of EA that is on it's way with AJ instead of a slanging thread.
Doctor - your facts are in-correct.The Lexus was solely owned by MOB and not a Company bought car. Those who worked downstairs and in accounts will know this.
MOB was in charge of EA for over ten years keeping it up in the air and people seem to forget that, that is the only point I was trying to get across.
I hear he is over seas with his partner in employment so do not fear doctor I doubt he has any intention of being re-involved!
Another thread needs to be started for the re-start of EA that is on it's way with AJ instead of a slanging thread.
Doctor - your facts are in-correct.The Lexus was solely owned by MOB and not a Company bought car. Those who worked downstairs and in accounts will know this.
MOB was in charge of EA for over ten years keeping it up in the air and people seem to forget that, that is the only point I was trying to get across.
I hear he is over seas with his partner in employment so do not fear doctor I doubt he has any intention of being re-involved!
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If it was a personal car, then it was still an awesome piece of mismanagement. Buying a flash new car just as you're telling people they can't have a pay rise because money is too tight.......
As an aside, how many iterations did AJ's flying businesses go through before Emerald.... Again I'll give you a hint, it was a lot. Open, close, open, close, open, close etc.etc.etc.
How many different contracts did some of the longer served crews have? Did they get pay rises each time? How about pay cuts?
How about the £10 voucher we got one christmas instead a bonus. Yeah thanks AJ. Good one. It made everyone feel really valued.
As an aside, how many iterations did AJ's flying businesses go through before Emerald.... Again I'll give you a hint, it was a lot. Open, close, open, close, open, close etc.etc.etc.
How many different contracts did some of the longer served crews have? Did they get pay rises each time? How about pay cuts?
How about the £10 voucher we got one christmas instead a bonus. Yeah thanks AJ. Good one. It made everyone feel really valued.
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If he is or if he isn't involved I am sure the same mistakes will not be made twice.
I for sure would like to see the look on some of your faces if he did join the re-start.
I was his right hand man for a few years and I have my opinions from an inside view not a member of crew who popped in once in a blue moon or happened to walk in on a bad ops day which happens in every airline.
Everyone has their good and their bad points, MOB made a success of that airline and made a lot of customer contacts for many a year and I happen to know after talking at LHR last week he is still in touch with a lot of them.
This thread has a lot of sour grapes and there is a different side to every story and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
MOB is living and working overseas with his other half and in my opinion it would be 50/50 if he did come back for AJ.
I for sure would like to see the look on some of your faces if he did join the re-start.
I was his right hand man for a few years and I have my opinions from an inside view not a member of crew who popped in once in a blue moon or happened to walk in on a bad ops day which happens in every airline.
Everyone has their good and their bad points, MOB made a success of that airline and made a lot of customer contacts for many a year and I happen to know after talking at LHR last week he is still in touch with a lot of them.
This thread has a lot of sour grapes and there is a different side to every story and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
MOB is living and working overseas with his other half and in my opinion it would be 50/50 if he did come back for AJ.
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Oh now I know who you are. Needless to say I will disregard anything you have to say on the points of competency in the airline world.
If MOB is involved, then anyone who goes back to work for that shower needs immediate and lifelong confinement to Colney Hatch.
Good luck if you do, 'cos you'll need it.
Oh and by the way, the look on my face would be one of amazement followed by laughter, finally followed by fear for the poor folks who might end up working for them.
If MOB is involved, then anyone who goes back to work for that shower needs immediate and lifelong confinement to Colney Hatch.
Good luck if you do, 'cos you'll need it.
Oh and by the way, the look on my face would be one of amazement followed by laughter, finally followed by fear for the poor folks who might end up working for them.
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I'm looking for HS748 type rated crew for a 6 month overseas contract starting January.
One TRi, one F/O plus one airframe and one avionics engineer required.
PM's welcome.
Thanks
One TRi, one F/O plus one airframe and one avionics engineer required.
PM's welcome.
Thanks
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fail please
as an ex streamline guy I really hope any new startup fails miserably watching the crew morale hitting rock bottom after the take over was not nice, too many good crews were lost because the management did not give a s*** about how they treated the crews ,to lose the pilots they did because of the attitude they had was almost criminal.the people who walked know who they are and also know that they were treated badly,for the budgie folk out there all I can say is that you put up with it out of choice, for most most of the shed boys ,well they were sold as a job lot, no choice but to walk!
on a personal note can I say how sad I was to hear about Andrew Morley a true gent and a real loss to the industry.
on a personal note can I say how sad I was to hear about Andrew Morley a true gent and a real loss to the industry.
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What an attitude to have when one man is trying to re-surrect his airline with a title from shedhead 'please fail'. I find that appauling.
And the end of the day we all lost and gained from EA but as far as we know AJ has a partner and children to support like most of us.
Most of the budgie guys as well as the office staff know for-well that the shed guys arrived from streamline with chips on their shoulders and rightly so being shuved from pillar to post but again at the end of the day you where given another chance with employment at EA when Streamline was taken over.
As for xmas bonus 'say again', a lot of companies get 'zilch' and I know for a fact that those xmas vouchers came out of AJ's & his wife's pocket and not through the Company. Multiply £10 by the amount of staff that worked at all sites and you have quite a large sum.
Annie would probably back me up here being downstairs you witnessed the fact that the management did give a sh*t as you so politley put it shed head.
And the end of the day we all lost and gained from EA but as far as we know AJ has a partner and children to support like most of us.
Most of the budgie guys as well as the office staff know for-well that the shed guys arrived from streamline with chips on their shoulders and rightly so being shuved from pillar to post but again at the end of the day you where given another chance with employment at EA when Streamline was taken over.
As for xmas bonus 'say again', a lot of companies get 'zilch' and I know for a fact that those xmas vouchers came out of AJ's & his wife's pocket and not through the Company. Multiply £10 by the amount of staff that worked at all sites and you have quite a large sum.
Annie would probably back me up here being downstairs you witnessed the fact that the management did give a sh*t as you so politley put it shed head.
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£10 is an insult. I would far rather have had a card saying thanks, but we can't afford any more. That would have been fine. If you think that is an acceptable practice, then I suggest you get some time in a real company or even do some management training, you'll soon find out that "gestures" like that are totally counter productive
The streamline guy's were quite rightly p*ssed off with how they were treated. Emerald managed to turn a profitable and relatively happy little company into oblivion in less than 3 years.
They also didn't like the fact that they were blamed for the woes of the company which was odd. They came from a stable company, that worked them far harder than Emerald ever did, but there was some respect both ways.
The takeover of streamline was a total botch job and there is no way the crews could be blamed for that. They just suffered for it. It wasn't just the crews though, I have never seen engineers treated as poorly. They tried their best, but were treated like dirt and when that happens of course people get demoralised and get "chips on their shoulders".
The demise of Emerald can be put down very easily to the decisions made to buy manky old ATP's to try and save money. Anyone who's been in flying for more than 5 minutes and has a modicum of commonsense could have told you that decision was going to be a disaster.
From there it was a catalogue of idiotic decisions and bad crisis management that put the company out of business.
Only one or maybe two people can be held responsible for those and their initials were MOB and AJ. As the sign says "the buck stops here" and unfortnately for the crews and other staff, it stopped at someone without the ability to sort it.
I have no issue with any of the 748 crews they worked as hard as anyone to try and keep the show on the road, but sometimes I do feel that a culture of letting thing slide had built up over the years and when the streamline crews turned up and were being asked to do the same, that's when they got fed up.
They simply weren't prepared to bend or break rules to get things done in the same way, which in my eyes was exactly right. Flying can be dangerous and some of the things I saw going on were outrageous and totally unacceptable.
I wasn't prepared to put up with it and nor should anyone else have been.
The streamline guy's were quite rightly p*ssed off with how they were treated. Emerald managed to turn a profitable and relatively happy little company into oblivion in less than 3 years.
They also didn't like the fact that they were blamed for the woes of the company which was odd. They came from a stable company, that worked them far harder than Emerald ever did, but there was some respect both ways.
The takeover of streamline was a total botch job and there is no way the crews could be blamed for that. They just suffered for it. It wasn't just the crews though, I have never seen engineers treated as poorly. They tried their best, but were treated like dirt and when that happens of course people get demoralised and get "chips on their shoulders".
The demise of Emerald can be put down very easily to the decisions made to buy manky old ATP's to try and save money. Anyone who's been in flying for more than 5 minutes and has a modicum of commonsense could have told you that decision was going to be a disaster.
From there it was a catalogue of idiotic decisions and bad crisis management that put the company out of business.
Only one or maybe two people can be held responsible for those and their initials were MOB and AJ. As the sign says "the buck stops here" and unfortnately for the crews and other staff, it stopped at someone without the ability to sort it.
I have no issue with any of the 748 crews they worked as hard as anyone to try and keep the show on the road, but sometimes I do feel that a culture of letting thing slide had built up over the years and when the streamline crews turned up and were being asked to do the same, that's when they got fed up.
They simply weren't prepared to bend or break rules to get things done in the same way, which in my eyes was exactly right. Flying can be dangerous and some of the things I saw going on were outrageous and totally unacceptable.
I wasn't prepared to put up with it and nor should anyone else have been.
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At last you have stated the name at the top AJ the man who MOB reported to and worked for the man who decided to bring the ATP's in even though MOB told him they would be bad news for the Company and disagreed totally with it.
ATP's and the pax service had blood shed over the company from day one. We downstairs knew how MOB felt about the ATP's but as any person does you do as your boss tells you to do ie. AJ.
If AJ wants to give it another ago then fine so be it. His choice as he has a family to support, if any ex EA staff choose to get involved then again their choice, but does not mean those who choose to stay away from it should wish bad luck or want it to fail.
EA was not perfect nor is any other airline.
By the way the vouchers came with hand written card to each and every one of us from AJ's wife.
ATP's and the pax service had blood shed over the company from day one. We downstairs knew how MOB felt about the ATP's but as any person does you do as your boss tells you to do ie. AJ.
If AJ wants to give it another ago then fine so be it. His choice as he has a family to support, if any ex EA staff choose to get involved then again their choice, but does not mean those who choose to stay away from it should wish bad luck or want it to fail.
EA was not perfect nor is any other airline.
By the way the vouchers came with hand written card to each and every one of us from AJ's wife.
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Look forward not back
As a former customer at the time of the demise they treated us as shockingly as some of you. Anyway Mr J is quite comfortable in his £850K house (Nethouseprices is a great tool) and as a previous poster noted running a company with all his children and MOB as directors. This should give him and them an income which is their right. As a user of chartered freighters I would not personally charter an aircraft from them but the more in the marketplace the more competitive for end users like us.
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The Christmas cards from the Janes family were a nice touch, including the £10 Sainsbury voucher.
What was a bit crap was at Xmas 2004 he didn't send out even a card - now i've heard of being removed from someone's Christmas card list but that is ridicuous.
Good luck if AJ gets it going but more fool him if he involves MOB again.
AJ should employ someone capable dealing with people. If you are going to lead people i would have thought it was obvious.
MOB was always full of some bull**** grand scheme when he spoke to crews.
What was a bit crap was at Xmas 2004 he didn't send out even a card - now i've heard of being removed from someone's Christmas card list but that is ridicuous.
Good luck if AJ gets it going but more fool him if he involves MOB again.
AJ should employ someone capable dealing with people. If you are going to lead people i would have thought it was obvious.
MOB was always full of some bull**** grand scheme when he spoke to crews.
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must come in again on this. the streamline boys both air and groundcrew were treated very badly after the takeover, I listened to FO's stressing about the fact that that two months had gone by without the exes being paid and the engineers were expected to drive to Bristol or Norwich for an "a" check with no spares backup or proper kit to do the job properly.on one wonderful occasion they were told that whisky bravo was tech in Paris
when they knew that it was on jacks in the Hangar.defend them all you like for those of us who had to put up with the incompetence and arrogance of MOB and still try to operate in a professional way those days were a nightmare
when they knew that it was on jacks in the Hangar.defend them all you like for those of us who had to put up with the incompetence and arrogance of MOB and still try to operate in a professional way those days were a nightmare
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Bit off the topic in question.
Does any one know where Trevor Caplis (ex ops guy) is these days?
Lives in Liverpool I know but was wondering what Company snapped him up?
Cheers all.
Does any one know where Trevor Caplis (ex ops guy) is these days?
Lives in Liverpool I know but was wondering what Company snapped him up?
Cheers all.
Trev
