Cargolux details requested!
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: The Moon
@indrapoera
@cliff second
@intrance
Thanks guys for the support.
As always, pinch of salt is a must with these replies.
Whatever hawk, final or anyone says is never taken to heart anyway.
Still got the job, still going to fly.
Besides, mommy and daddy pay for my rent, my car and all my bills. Flying the 747 is just for fun. I can't wait for the warm welcome, I'll record it with my go pro so I can cherish the moment.
I'm done now, I'll be lurking in the background until something useful or interesting is said.
Peace
@cliff second
@intrance
Thanks guys for the support.
As always, pinch of salt is a must with these replies.
Whatever hawk, final or anyone says is never taken to heart anyway.
Still got the job, still going to fly.
Besides, mommy and daddy pay for my rent, my car and all my bills. Flying the 747 is just for fun. I can't wait for the warm welcome, I'll record it with my go pro so I can cherish the moment.
I'm done now, I'll be lurking in the background until something useful or interesting is said.
Peace
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
From: On the road
Ha ha 
made me laugh, fair play. I'll admit does read like that.
By the nonsense you are writing it is pretty obvious that you are not flying for CLX and thus don't understand the complexity of our operation.
Why do you (and a few others) try to put us in the "old man bad attitude bad crm" corner when we point out some very valid points?
Bad attitude is more often a problem on the RHS.
Some of the 200 hr wonderkids now got 2000 hrs and they are still convinced they are special and gods' gift to aviation.
Instead of behaving like real men they behave like pussies.
They show all symptons of modern society kids raised by overprotecting parents and are sometimes not even able to take a simple roster change without crying.
Or they follow the order of their girlfriend and report sick when their roster plans them to fly to some "not so nice" destination.
The list is quite long actually.
P.
2000 hours = pussies? That's probably got more to do with character than flying hours.
I'm not crap talking you chief. You have my sympathy re terms. Pilots should stick together and support each other, but this is an open forum and anyone is welcome to debate. Someone crap talking a new hire over experience is bad form and attracts a challenge on a public forum. Useless unions and business practice getting away with murder is what's doing our industry in.
made me laugh, fair play. I'll admit does read like that.By the nonsense you are writing it is pretty obvious that you are not flying for CLX and thus don't understand the complexity of our operation.
Why do you (and a few others) try to put us in the "old man bad attitude bad crm" corner when we point out some very valid points?
Bad attitude is more often a problem on the RHS.
Some of the 200 hr wonderkids now got 2000 hrs and they are still convinced they are special and gods' gift to aviation.
Instead of behaving like real men they behave like pussies.
They show all symptons of modern society kids raised by overprotecting parents and are sometimes not even able to take a simple roster change without crying.
Or they follow the order of their girlfriend and report sick when their roster plans them to fly to some "not so nice" destination.
The list is quite long actually.
P.
I'm not crap talking you chief. You have my sympathy re terms. Pilots should stick together and support each other, but this is an open forum and anyone is welcome to debate. Someone crap talking a new hire over experience is bad form and attracts a challenge on a public forum. Useless unions and business practice getting away with murder is what's doing our industry in.
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Kopavogur
Some guys on this topic really need to get off their throne.
The Airline I fly for has been recruiting and training people with less than 2000h. Jet. Or even TP for years, without problems, and we fly to very challenging places, Worldwide.
And please do not start proclaiming that Cargolux standards are higher, trust me, they are not. Not at all.
The B747 is a great aircraft and easy to fly. Almost like a B737 but more stable.
" having to guide you around the World"..?! Seriously mate? In reality, Long-Haul flying is NOT that hard, cpdlc has significantly eased comms enroute, most airports now have RNAV approaches if not equipped with ILS, weather you also have in Europe,... and training takes care of the peculiarities and remaining challenges.
You do not want to guide? Then don't be the Captain.
Greetz,
A B747-400 Captain, flying for an EASA airline.
The Airline I fly for has been recruiting and training people with less than 2000h. Jet. Or even TP for years, without problems, and we fly to very challenging places, Worldwide.
And please do not start proclaiming that Cargolux standards are higher, trust me, they are not. Not at all.
The B747 is a great aircraft and easy to fly. Almost like a B737 but more stable.
" having to guide you around the World"..?! Seriously mate? In reality, Long-Haul flying is NOT that hard, cpdlc has significantly eased comms enroute, most airports now have RNAV approaches if not equipped with ILS, weather you also have in Europe,... and training takes care of the peculiarities and remaining challenges.
You do not want to guide? Then don't be the Captain.
Greetz,
A B747-400 Captain, flying for an EASA airline.
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
From: .
CargoLux Assessment
I just receive an invitation for psychometrics test in Luxembourg, anyone knows how the process is? Do I need to come back home After psychometrics or all the assessment is done in a consecutive days?
Regards...
Regards...
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
From: Japan
Cargolux still's has a problem with lack of pilots, specially F/O. Flights are constatly delayed, rosters changing constatly , according to some news, in the cargo world dedicated press.
Augmented crew are mostly with F/O.
The EASA flight crew limits are completly facke. Doesn't contribuit for a correct fatigue managment. With 3 pilots per flight you can extend dutty period for more than 12 hours, do 2 landings, after a "red eye"flight , and then continue to the final destination.
Can you imagine doing a cargo flight in these conditions? I belive it's hard.
This company has serious problems with fatigue issues. Their union pilots are aware of it. But the managment seems, that ignores it. People don't understand why?
I know some pilots with a lot of flight experience, flew long haul, on Airbus and Boeing, that simply applied, but didn't receive an answer from Cargolux.
They are motivated people, and Cargolux could take an advantage from it, instead hiring F16 pilots.
Why they aren't flexible? There is no age limit, but seems that they do.
Any pilot with 45 years can give at least 20 years more of his life to CLX.
Augmented crew are mostly with F/O.
The EASA flight crew limits are completly facke. Doesn't contribuit for a correct fatigue managment. With 3 pilots per flight you can extend dutty period for more than 12 hours, do 2 landings, after a "red eye"flight , and then continue to the final destination.
Can you imagine doing a cargo flight in these conditions? I belive it's hard.
This company has serious problems with fatigue issues. Their union pilots are aware of it. But the managment seems, that ignores it. People don't understand why?
I know some pilots with a lot of flight experience, flew long haul, on Airbus and Boeing, that simply applied, but didn't receive an answer from Cargolux.
They are motivated people, and Cargolux could take an advantage from it, instead hiring F16 pilots.
Why they aren't flexible? There is no age limit, but seems that they do.
Any pilot with 45 years can give at least 20 years more of his life to CLX.
Joined: Jun 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
From: ---
Trancada,
Some of your points are slightly exaggerated, although nobody will say EASA FTL is a good thing.
I can imagine no airline is interested in highly qualified pilots who are around 20 years older than the average person being hired if they run by a seniority list.
The jury is still out with proof whether the lack of widebody or cargo experience is actually an issue. Most guys I have seen being hired over the last years were all very capable and social persons, so the drama seems to be slightly out of place.
Some of your points are slightly exaggerated, although nobody will say EASA FTL is a good thing.
I can imagine no airline is interested in highly qualified pilots who are around 20 years older than the average person being hired if they run by a seniority list.
The jury is still out with proof whether the lack of widebody or cargo experience is actually an issue. Most guys I have seen being hired over the last years were all very capable and social persons, so the drama seems to be slightly out of place.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38
Likes: 11
From: EU
-EASA FTL is a disaster for Cargolux. ''So to say they are exaggerated''. Please explain yourself? Because everyone I fly with is dead tired of dutys of 15-16 hours with multiple sectors. those duty are now very common. dutys like; LUX-KMQ-ICN(15-16 hours duty. and they are done with three man crew. where a Pax airline does europe-asia(japen, korea ectra) just ONE sector with min 3 or 4 man crew.
-training at Cargolux is really great. most of the trainers are great people. transition for 320,737 to B747. is more or less the same as turboprob to B747. is that a good system? is it fair to the people coming for turboprob?(its like one or two sims session extra and couple of extra line sectors compared to 737 or 320). those people coming from turnoprop are all really good people and the trainers are all great, and doing there best. but you have to ask yourself, how is the training system working out? bottom line is 'money and time'. more training mean more money and time.
-training at Cargolux is really great. most of the trainers are great people. transition for 320,737 to B747. is more or less the same as turboprob to B747. is that a good system? is it fair to the people coming for turboprob?(its like one or two sims session extra and couple of extra line sectors compared to 737 or 320). those people coming from turnoprop are all really good people and the trainers are all great, and doing there best. but you have to ask yourself, how is the training system working out? bottom line is 'money and time'. more training mean more money and time.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,168
Likes: 0
From: bespin, the cloud city
Cargolux still's has a problem with lack of pilots, specially F/O. Flights are constatly delayed, rosters changing constatly , according to some news, in the cargo world dedicated press.
Anyone with hands-on experience on the matter?
Safe flying
PZ
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: France
I agree with Ray.
Trancada, if you are not fit enough to continue after the first leg, "to the extent that the flight may be endangered", you are supposed to "not perform duties on an aircraft" and take a crew rest.
That's your responsibility!
If you can't handle the responsibility that comes with the job it might be time for a career change.
But first try some "Controlled Rest on Flight Deck" when you feel tired.
Trancada, if you are not fit enough to continue after the first leg, "to the extent that the flight may be endangered", you are supposed to "not perform duties on an aircraft" and take a crew rest.
That's your responsibility!
If you can't handle the responsibility that comes with the job it might be time for a career change.
But first try some "Controlled Rest on Flight Deck" when you feel tired.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38
Likes: 11
From: EU
LBR,
what do you think if you have standard rotations on regular basis, you know its way to much regarding tiredness, should you just take your ''responsibility'' and park the aircraft and go into rest on a regular basis?
should a rotation in general not be so tired that you have to think parking the aircraft every time? whether we like it or not, if we park a aircraft because the rotation is to tired. i bet everyone feels a extreme pressure not to do it. Ofc there are always supermans who doesnt feel that pressure from the office. but im not talking about those supermans, talking about a normal human pilot.
i wish, i had the courage like you, LBR
what do you think if you have standard rotations on regular basis, you know its way to much regarding tiredness, should you just take your ''responsibility'' and park the aircraft and go into rest on a regular basis?
should a rotation in general not be so tired that you have to think parking the aircraft every time? whether we like it or not, if we park a aircraft because the rotation is to tired. i bet everyone feels a extreme pressure not to do it. Ofc there are always supermans who doesnt feel that pressure from the office. but im not talking about those supermans, talking about a normal human pilot.
i wish, i had the courage like you, LBR
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38
Likes: 11
From: EU
Ray,
I hope you put your words into action. if we all where doing it what you where saying, i agree with you. I feel we as pilots has a responsibility to say no when we are really tired. but I feel the office has also a responsibility not to make rotations, knowing it will be very tiring. because that means you are put in a corner with intent. I have to say the most colleague speak all agree that giving away or duty times limitaions in our CWA made our work way more tiring. I dont need to tell you, the enormous increase in fatigue reports. but lets hope in the future its changes a bit
I hope you put your words into action. if we all where doing it what you where saying, i agree with you. I feel we as pilots has a responsibility to say no when we are really tired. but I feel the office has also a responsibility not to make rotations, knowing it will be very tiring. because that means you are put in a corner with intent. I have to say the most colleague speak all agree that giving away or duty times limitaions in our CWA made our work way more tiring. I dont need to tell you, the enormous increase in fatigue reports. but lets hope in the future its changes a bit
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: UR978 southbound
We pilots are our worst enemies.
We have some 100 colleagues at CV who are selling their OFF- and VAC-days on a regular basis.
"Now it's the time to make money!" or "I make the same money as a captain!" [as F/O]
These people pass a dangerous message to the management:
"It is not all that bad" or "EASA FTL - no problem".
Quite a few of these get nicer trips than the rest of us which are even withheld by crewplanning to have "something nice" to offer.
These short sighted "colleagues" do not see the point that they pay a hefty price for their short-term greed with health issues and expensive divorces when their last paychecks are taken into account for the alimony they will pay.
As long as the company can count on these people nothing will change.
No roster stability and not enough crews.
I found this gem in the Middle East forum on a similar problem:
"wanna know why?
because we, humans, are stupid, selfish and greedy.
and we, pilots, are humans.
and that's why."
We have some 100 colleagues at CV who are selling their OFF- and VAC-days on a regular basis.
"Now it's the time to make money!" or "I make the same money as a captain!" [as F/O]
These people pass a dangerous message to the management:
"It is not all that bad" or "EASA FTL - no problem".
Quite a few of these get nicer trips than the rest of us which are even withheld by crewplanning to have "something nice" to offer.
These short sighted "colleagues" do not see the point that they pay a hefty price for their short-term greed with health issues and expensive divorces when their last paychecks are taken into account for the alimony they will pay.
As long as the company can count on these people nothing will change.
No roster stability and not enough crews.
I found this gem in the Middle East forum on a similar problem:
"wanna know why?
because we, humans, are stupid, selfish and greedy.
and we, pilots, are humans.
and that's why."
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: France
Hank, had to do it once.
Planned FDP 15:20
Started with some delay at the first station.
Colleague who took the first rest came back after 4 hours saying that he couldn't sleep.
I was getting tired at the end of the first leg so we took the decision to have a layover in OVB.
True, it's not easy as you know it might cause delays and mess up your colleague's schedules.
On the other hand, it is your duty as a crew member to take those decisions.
Planned FDP 15:20
Started with some delay at the first station.
Colleague who took the first rest came back after 4 hours saying that he couldn't sleep.
I was getting tired at the end of the first leg so we took the decision to have a layover in OVB.
True, it's not easy as you know it might cause delays and mess up your colleague's schedules.
On the other hand, it is your duty as a crew member to take those decisions.
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: sidney
cargolux second round
best regards.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: UR978 southbound
This is an ongoing problem. We never had enough crews, and we are not talking about a decent and working standby system.
We had contract captains that spent the better part of 10 years in the company.
F/Os were not amused to say the least.