Cougar.....no more
727 MAN -You Hit The Nail On The Head!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: building site
Some very interesting points of view. If only we lived in an ideal world where all motives were altruistic.
Individuals, groups and organizations start businesses for one reason only, TO MAKE MONEY. I'm afraid that you have to "speculate in order to accumulate", and the resources required includes financial funding, workers, capital assets etc., etc., etc. A statement of the obvious, but, BUSINESSES NEED WORKERS AND WORKERS NEED JOBS! QED!
It's also obvious that there are many facets to managing a business. This includes an understanding of the VARIOUS components required to ensure good cash flow. Sorry, but if one feels that the task is too onerous, then as they say, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"!
Effectively management of a business, or the crew on an aircraft, should rely on mutal trust (creditibility). In reality, some overcome this in the short-term by motivating staff with larger than normal wages.
And Coopervane, I agree with you, if you don't like the company then get out. But, unless the "supply and demand" cycle is in your favour, can you you tell me how that can be achieved? Easy to say though, eh?
I understand from one of the Cougar guys that the two areoplanes were contracted to TNT. So, unless TNT reneged on their payments, the company should have had good cash flow. But, what was the cost base? And and and and and ???????????
Guys, is the company in Administrative Receivership, or is it operating under an Administrative Order? Different things. You all need expert legal opinion to determine whether your treatment has adhered to recognised procedure.
I wish you all well, especially in finding new employment. But, don't ever be grateful to any company for simply employing you, because they also NEED you to enable them to function, and so create wealth ( shareholder valve ).
One World, on the face of it, you've made some reasonable points. In my opinion however, they are rather simplistic, and I am sure that you don't apply the same approach in your commercial negotiations. Ultimately though, you completely devalue your contribution with the crass statements in your last post. Okay. it's summer, too many G&Ts, and the wife's nagging. Forgiven.
No, I've never worked for the mentioned NK. I am a Captain with a "major", a qualified accountant, and a Director in a couple of my family (non aviation) businesses. But I am still learning new things every day!
I've just wasted my time with the last post! Thanks Inverted Flik, that Cooper vane is a card!
Nice one! What a winderupper you are Coopervane, you naughty boy! Have one for me when you get there.
Sounds like a really funng guy so have a great stop Inverted Flick.
Happy flying.
Individuals, groups and organizations start businesses for one reason only, TO MAKE MONEY. I'm afraid that you have to "speculate in order to accumulate", and the resources required includes financial funding, workers, capital assets etc., etc., etc. A statement of the obvious, but, BUSINESSES NEED WORKERS AND WORKERS NEED JOBS! QED!
It's also obvious that there are many facets to managing a business. This includes an understanding of the VARIOUS components required to ensure good cash flow. Sorry, but if one feels that the task is too onerous, then as they say, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"!
Effectively management of a business, or the crew on an aircraft, should rely on mutal trust (creditibility). In reality, some overcome this in the short-term by motivating staff with larger than normal wages.
And Coopervane, I agree with you, if you don't like the company then get out. But, unless the "supply and demand" cycle is in your favour, can you you tell me how that can be achieved? Easy to say though, eh?
I understand from one of the Cougar guys that the two areoplanes were contracted to TNT. So, unless TNT reneged on their payments, the company should have had good cash flow. But, what was the cost base? And and and and and ???????????
Guys, is the company in Administrative Receivership, or is it operating under an Administrative Order? Different things. You all need expert legal opinion to determine whether your treatment has adhered to recognised procedure.
I wish you all well, especially in finding new employment. But, don't ever be grateful to any company for simply employing you, because they also NEED you to enable them to function, and so create wealth ( shareholder valve ).
One World, on the face of it, you've made some reasonable points. In my opinion however, they are rather simplistic, and I am sure that you don't apply the same approach in your commercial negotiations. Ultimately though, you completely devalue your contribution with the crass statements in your last post. Okay. it's summer, too many G&Ts, and the wife's nagging. Forgiven.
No, I've never worked for the mentioned NK. I am a Captain with a "major", a qualified accountant, and a Director in a couple of my family (non aviation) businesses. But I am still learning new things every day!
I've just wasted my time with the last post! Thanks Inverted Flik, that Cooper vane is a card!
Nice one! What a winderupper you are Coopervane, you naughty boy! Have one for me when you get there.
Sounds like a really funng guy so have a great stop Inverted Flick.
Happy flying.
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,232
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere between here and there....
I understand from one of the Cougar guys that the two areoplanes were contracted to TNT. So, unless TNT reneged on their payments, the company should have had good cash flow.
As for good cash flow, I suspect it flowed into someone's pocket (or pockets) 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: building site
If you are involved in a work related incident as an employee there will usually be an investigation to determine the cause.
Likewise, the law enables a similar recourse if there is any suspicion of management wrongdoing. This can involve the DTI, the Serious Fraud Office and even the CAA, to name but a few.
In some circumstances, directors, and managers can also be found personally liable. There are very clear legal responsibilities imposed on directors, and even a Limited company will not afford protection to any violators.
You folks really need the service of a specialist solicitor who can guide you through the necessary procedures for the advancement of your case.
IT IS YOUR LEGAL RIGHT.
Good luck.
Likewise, the law enables a similar recourse if there is any suspicion of management wrongdoing. This can involve the DTI, the Serious Fraud Office and even the CAA, to name but a few.
In some circumstances, directors, and managers can also be found personally liable. There are very clear legal responsibilities imposed on directors, and even a Limited company will not afford protection to any violators.
You folks really need the service of a specialist solicitor who can guide you through the necessary procedures for the advancement of your case.
IT IS YOUR LEGAL RIGHT.
Good luck.
Oops pardon me
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Manchester England
Stage Coach Driver
I,ve been shafted on more than one occasion and still smile.......you should try it.
I admit I dont have Cougar's books to scrutinise but I know that KN did own ND and NI at Sabre as I was involved in engineering at the time. The American 727's were his at one point and I suppose like many others he sold them and leased them back.
I said my piece so good luck with the job hunting as thats what I need at the moment!
Coop
I admit I dont have Cougar's books to scrutinise but I know that KN did own ND and NI at Sabre as I was involved in engineering at the time. The American 727's were his at one point and I suppose like many others he sold them and leased them back.
I said my piece so good luck with the job hunting as thats what I need at the moment!
Coop
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
From: Notts & Derbyshire border
ATLANTIC AIRLINES AND TU204F
Just saw that Atlantic Airlines CVT are applying to the UK CAA to takeover the management deal of the SU- reg (egyptian regd) TU204F aircraft that fly for TNT.
This was/still is being done under the auspices of Cougar.
This was/still is being done under the auspices of Cougar.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: abroad
Everyone is having a go at KN .OK he is the ultimate guy to have a go at but what about the little guy who was supposedly in charge of the pilots and their welfare. I hear he is still there and getting paid sounds a bit strange.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: ABERDEEN SCOTLAND
Gawd!
Papa Noel
Your biterness is blinding.
You give to much credit to Capt F.
Capt Fossil and Obergrupenfuhrer/Chief petty officer DH probaly had a lot to do with the end of Cougar as well as a few others but only in an indirect and incompetent way.
I think it is safe to say that only one man at Cougar knew what was realy going on and only one man has all the answers.
He has got away with it. Court action etc none of you will get him that way.
It would appear that everyone except KN are losing sleep and money over the demise of Cougar.
If you are that pis*&d at him and want revenge.
You all know where he lives ( you can't miss it).
Go kill his carp!
The end.
EXXon-Valdez
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
Your biterness is blinding.
You give to much credit to Capt F.
Capt Fossil and Obergrupenfuhrer/Chief petty officer DH probaly had a lot to do with the end of Cougar as well as a few others but only in an indirect and incompetent way.
I think it is safe to say that only one man at Cougar knew what was realy going on and only one man has all the answers.
He has got away with it. Court action etc none of you will get him that way.
It would appear that everyone except KN are losing sleep and money over the demise of Cougar.
If you are that pis*&d at him and want revenge.
You all know where he lives ( you can't miss it).
Go kill his carp!
The end.
EXXon-Valdez
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
Last edited by Exxon-Valdez; 19th June 2003 at 21:01.
Omnes vulnerant sed ultima necat.....
')
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Planet Earth
What a shame, no tears shed here though.
Suprised they managed to keep going this long.
Sure to be another buget, bodged airline with the same people to start up soon.
Wonder if the management can get along and run a company properly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P!s up ion a brewery comes to mind
Suprised they managed to keep going this long.
Sure to be another buget, bodged airline with the same people to start up soon.
Wonder if the management can get along and run a company properly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P!s up ion a brewery comes to mind