Cathay Girls
 

Hey guys what's up?

Just started at Cx and was wondering about the cabin ladies working for us here.

Having flown with passengers and c/a's for years now in Europe I am kind of feeling things are a BIT(MASSIVELY) different here especially when it comes to the cabin attendants.

Not really getting the "CREW" feeling here, it's like you check in the evening and you introduce yourself and that's the only eye contact you'll get for the rest of the trip or layover, kind of feeling we're not on the same line/team or we(cockpit) don't even exist or something. Very little social relationship between Cockpit and C/A's.

Maybe I'm wrong and it's probably only me but just wondering IS it like that usually here at Cx?? Did something happen in the past that there is no kind of "CREW" feeling between the C/A's and the cockpit??

And of course probably it's a cultural thing and I shouldn't expect loads of fun and partying and drinks with the ladies on layovers,like other carriers in EU(or ME) but , DOES IT HAPPEN????????? What is GOING ON here man????? I'm going crazy with these gals man, they are not up for any crew fun mate. Did something happen in the past?? Or are they briefed during the course NOT to mingle with the Cockpit or something?? Or is it just me(probably is).

Would like some input on this matter, thanks mates.

p.s. PLease some serious input I know for 90% of you Cx is the WORST company in the world and the most horrible..... etc. etc. etc., but please just keep it about the gals, thank you guys.

In this respect, Cathay is good for marriages!!!!

Nope nothing happened, thats just the way it is!

Can you say "Olympic Flame"

hahahaha....some of these new guys just KILL me...!!! :}

Personally I notice a difference between the based girls (and boys) vs the Hong Kong crew. I put that down to culture. The fact they don't go out is probably in direct correlation to their abysmal T&Cs. Saving allowances can make a big impact on take home pay when you are starting on around 10000HKD! Thus the Olympic Flame title, ask someone when you go flying next.

Ahhh,

you just wanted somebody to be your friend. Sitting at the front of the plane makes you none the following:

- more attractive
- more important
- more popular

Once you've been in Hong kong just a little longer gipilot you'll realise that because of what you are/where you work will not make "gals" more likely to "catch your eye". Respect and friendship with people in HKG needs to be earned just like anywhere else in this world. Women were not put on this earth or CX a/c for that matter - to give you pleasant flattering conversation.

By the way what is "crew fun" - is this some sort of parlour game?

Regards,

N1 Vibes

PS - "Oh you have such a big wallet, yes I'd love to have a beer, oh, you're room key - how nice, is that a camera, I'm not that kind of girl, well just this once, is that a real 0.10 carat diamond, you shouldn't, marriage - of course, wanchai with your mates, of course I don't mind, who is that girl you were with, ah your sister, no she can sleep here as well......etc, etc."

PPS - Get a Life!

gipilot
 

Repeat after me: I am utterly ignorant about cultural differences.

Repeat after me: I am totally clueless about socio-economics.

Repeat after me: I can't believe that I've exposed myself as a cultural dumbass, by postng this thought on a public forum.

Yes it is "just you".

If you really are after that "crew feeling", ask one of the male cabin attendants out to the pub (or maybe that's not really what you're after).

You sound like a real catch. I can't understand why the women aren't all over you.

Have a nice day.

CW

''the guy is just asking are our girls a good bunch?'' as oppose to a Bad bunch?

Nothing wrong with the girls or guys.Have you checked for BO or dragon breath?

Old Spice? Wow! that's from the 60's right?

Constructive Cold War

T o s s e r

gipilot, ask your crew up front. Don't ask the morons here!

This forum is not the place to search for a serious answer. Drunken bums live here!:}

"Cold-War" "N1 Vibes", bit harsh boys. You wouldn't wear long sleeves to work would you? :E

of course, I would have to second the 'dumb-ass' comment. (remember, it's important to have a straight crease ironed down the length of the sleeve):ok:

Ok, I will stick my neck out on this one!

CX has definitely become a far less social airline among crew during my time.

Probably the biggest change was during 1995-1997 when cockpit ULH patterns were shortened to 4 days (so we could get more days off in HKG!!!!), while cabin crew remained in accordance with their contracts. The fact that you went outbound, and then returned with completely different cabin crew tend's to split crews apart. For cockpit crew the day of arrival is the only day to go out, while Cabin crew treat this as a day of rest, and go out the next day.

My more social trips have tended to be the longer ones when you all stay together as a crew, such as 5 or 6 day Jo'burg's, Amsterdam's, Adelaide's, Bahrain's, Penang's etc. These patterns are now ancient history!

However, things are now even more challanging for various reasons.

Our new cabin crew recruits are only paid $79 per hour, for a 100 hour month. This work load does not leave much enthusiasm for going out socialising with anyone on overnight stops! Also when the basic is only 8k, saving overnight allowances to cover living costs is even more important than before.

It is understandable that when staff are so poorly paid they tend to treat their employment as a short term job, rather than a long term career. Hence high levels of sickness, lots of resignations and low levels of motivation at work. This also affects how people fit into a crew.

CX Management have chosen to ignore the fact that it has been an employees market for jobs over the last few years in Hong Kong. They continue to cut back packages for staff, and struggle to fill classes for new cabin crew, by compromising on standards.

With HKG unemployment at 3.3%, and lots of jobs paying far better than CX, our new Cabin Crew recruits are either people who failed to get better jobs, or the minority who just really want to be Cabin crew (despite the pay, etc).

No doubt our longer serving pilots could make the same observation about newer generations of CX pilots, B scaler's, Freighter pilot's, etc. Basically CX get's what it pay's for.

The declining english language skills of our younger crew are an added issue. Current crew list demographics are typically for the bottom 2/3rds of the crew to be all cantonese speakers. Basically the aircraft effectively divides into two seperate operations with the cockpit and senior cabin crew being CX, and the back of the aeroplane becoming Mongkok Airlines.

In the outport these crew prefer to not "change channel" (speak english), so are reluctant to go out with non Cantonese speakers. Maybe if we all learned to speak cantonese we could overcome this!

Nothing is going to change with regard to the social situation, so just accept it. To socialise with cabin crew, it is probably better to latch on to other airline crews. This is definitely a better option, especially if you are married to CX cabin crew!

As a Captain, you have to try and build enough of a team to face the possible challanges of the trip. This is not easy when you only get 5 minutes or so on the crew bus, and half the crew are yakking away on mobile phones etc. You just have to put in the effort to make sure that all the senior crew are comfortable to call you when something goes wrong in the cabin.

Good post J68.....

Your world....
 

Freighter pilots......... Oh my.......... at least it was capitalized.......

J28

to pick up on the "need to build enough of a team", if there isn't a feeling of same-team-same-dream and professionalism when you get on the bus, then there is something wrong with the selection/training/community within CX. If it came to a difficult situation on a plane, one would have hoped that the people selected through interview and selection process, for cabin/flight crew, have the carachteristics to be able to work together straight off the bat. If there is a need to 'bond' before the flight do you need to ask - is there a real problem here? And is it being communicated to cabin/flight crew management? Thoughts.

Regards,

N1 Vibes

and from some of the comments above, 1/2 full of w@nkers too :ugh:

''I also agree with Fac6 in that most of them will write you up any chance they get, it's disgusting.''

Why do you think that is so? as always there are two sides to a story.

Cody yea really? What kind of deluded state are you in? Even Flight Ops get tired of the influx of reports but what can they do? ISD is a much bigger and more powerful dept.

I personally know the crew on the flight where they had a Jumpseat pax and First class had 2 occupants. The ISM cleared the guys to sit at the back of First and eat and watch a movie. It's true the ISM went to bed and they were told to move by the SP who then wrote them up.

I have other friends who suffered similar and even worse situations than that but if I went into detail it would give their identities away.

as always, there are two sides to a story...

I love Cathay girls.

yeah the other side of the story is that they're stuck up and conceited b to the i to the t to the c to the h to the e to the s. I mean how hard is it to say hello or just shoot the breeze? from what I read, the guy should be concerned that he's flying with a bunch of unsocialable hags... how can you be a team and work together if you can't even engage in some small talk?

flyr

"unsociable hags"

Love it hehehe

You know recently I went for a stroll down the back because I wanted to stretch my legs. When I walked past the galley at L4 one of the girls looks at me and says.. "What are you doing here? Are you here to try and chat one of us up? I wanted to tell her to F*&K OFF but instead just smiled and said "I'm the Captain and I can go anywhere I want on my aircraft" She then replied "Well normally when you guys come down you want a girl" She then turned to her colleagues and continued to eat and yak in Cantonese.

Say's it all really!

Fortunately, ISD seems to have got the message from pax as well that having just local HK girls isn't working and they've started recruiting around the region again for HK base. As one of the people who sees more of them than you up front, I'm certainly hoping that this will help bring back some of the old CX feel (it's only in the last 5 or 6 years that it's been going wrong).

Was it the former COO's grand plan to have ''Same team,same dream''.Translation: All local crew [tech and cabin]
Back fired big time.See GMIS msg today quite sad actually.

I beg your indulgence for a brief digression:

Is it just me, and my paranoia (I try to avoid the word Alzheimer when referring to myself), or do some of you, also, have the feeling that certain of these threads are being "managed" (this one comes to mind) ?
Too often, postings just disappear into the ether, and after a day or two, it is pointless to re-submit, because the posting would be far removed from the item to which it related.

Now back to A scale, B scale, RA65, Cabin Crew socialization (none of which are the real problem - look in the other direction).

Back to another 10 years of hibernation.

CW

400 Jockey, way to tell them how it is!! i think that was the best response to her ignorant question! that's real class right there!

Guys...

Come on... you are starting to sound like mongrels.

J68 - excellent post.

Things have changed in this industry, the bean counters have taken their big cut out of the cake to pay for their bonus and guarantee their next step up the corporate ladder - and stuff the consequences, it'll be someone else's problem before it bites.

No truer is this than in ISD. The racist decided that, indeed, we would be a 'same team, same dream' company populated exclusively by local employees. He chose to do this not because of some deluded dream that they would be the best, but because it would save money in that holy grail of $2/ASK. In the process; however, he failed to consider the possible consequences (or he didn't care; because it would be someone else's problem by the time it bit) of declining standards in the Cabin, where it truly matters. The pax really don't care if we land 4500ft down the runway so long as it's smooth. They do care about the service in the cabin, particularly in First and Business.

Now back to the thread...
Just ask yourselves these few questions.

1. How often have you approached the immigration desk at dispatch and actively gone to introduce yourself to the crew? Or do you wait for them to come to you? They are told to introduce themselves to us, but we never take the initiative! How intimidating must it be for a 22 year old chinese girl to come over and introduce herself to a 50 year old 400 captain.
2 How often does the Captain actually make his 'Bus Speech" involving for the crew? Does he re-introduce the pilots and project his voice to the back of the bus or does he just mumble to the ISM. For those who do just mumble, I can tell you, it is NOT very impressive to the junior crew down the back.
3. We've all got bad memories, who prints off a crew list before the flight and makes a note of the ISM, SP and FPs names. Particularly the ones who will be serving the flight deck. It's called CRM - Courtesy, Respect and Manners.
4. How many of us loiter in the galley, having not learnt their names in the hope that we will be recognized and served.
5. How many of us demand to be fed at the height of the meal service. Never forget, the crew are there to serve the Pax... we come second! Even if we're hungry. Because it's the Pax who pay all our salaries.
6. How many of us take rest in the cabin (and I'm pretty sure we're not permitted to do so in First) and leave the seat area looking like a pigsty? Do you re-plump the pillow and fold the blanket or do you leave the seat half reclined, the blanket in a mess on the floor and the pillow all crumpled. Because someone has to tidy it up to keep the appearance that is required in First and Business. If you want a maid on board then buy your helper a ticket and take her with you.
7. Why on earth would any of us want to eat in the cabin? The time taken eating soaks uo 30 minutes of an otherwise boring watch duty! Put yourself in the shoes of the adjacent First or Business class passenger who has paid $40-70,000 to get to LHR. You would not want someone sitting next to you, eating and disturbing the tranquility of the environment. For the poster who had the SP countermand the permission of the ISM.... If a pax complains - it is the SP who will get it in the neck from CX not the ISM because it is her cabin. Besides, we are not permitted to eat in First.
8. How many of us get stroppy if we are told there is no caviar? It is there for the pax, not us! On the other hand, treat the girls nicely from the start and the world will be your oyster.
9. For the longer serving readers... how many of you invited the girls out as a crew, drank yourselves to oblivion, whilst they drank Coke or OJ and then split the bill? Hardly chivalrous is it.

Gentlemen, this list is endless. But to go on would get boring.

We, as an employee group with CX do not cover ourselves in glory in the eyes of our non-pilot colleagues.
When it comes to dealing with the cabin crew, they just want us to be pleasant, perhaps learn their name.
Be patient, they may be dealing with one of the CUSTOMERS.
She may be tired, they get on average half the rest we do.
They have to deal with some pretty low life organisms out there and might just be looking for an unwitting victim on whom to vent their anger... go on punk make their day!

400 Jockey and your ilk.... shame on you. If you really are a Captain, then you should take the time to find out what goes on behind the flight deck door... Oh, I forgot. On the -400, there is just a void on the other side of that door.... unless you want something...... NOW!!!!

Max... out....

400 Jockey-

You really hit the nail on the head. Small-talk is pointless as far as women go. They subvert any hint of attention or passive conversation into a possibility that the guy they're talking to might actually be trying to get into their skirt. Heh. And while thats probably true most of the time, it's not like men try and hide it in the workplace. That would be stupid, what's the point? The problem with women in [general] in the workplace is that they don't want to be treated like equals, they want to be treated like women. They merely want to be paid equally in the workplace thus the hostility, resentment and writeups which probably are one of only a handful of things that justify and bolster their presence to begin with. So if dating co-workers is your thing, good luck. It's a lose-lose situation for you, and at a princely $79 an hour (hahahaha...sorry) c/a's obviously have a lot less to lose than you!

-C...

What I know about the CX girls is that in my time here their union has showed bigger balls then us.

Here we are discussing how big a smile we are entitled to while the company is chipping away on our contract.

At least the F.A.U can get their members to march in protest (at least 3 times I can recall in my time here) while we cannot even fill out an online survey from the HKAOA.

Good post Max Reheat, but like you say it is just common decency and manners.
Giflyer have you tried to Google Dr. Phil if you’re that desperate we have bigger things to worry about, and I am not talking about the fuel price.

Face it, would YOU go out with one of us if you were a cabin crew? I certainly wouldn't.

ge065,

One or two of them have done!

The expat cabin crew, who, by and large are now very senior, are completely unrepresentative of the 'new generation'.

They are well educated and are in for as much of a good time as the rest of us. Unfortunately the inconsiderate approach of an ill mannered minority of us is tainting the barrel.

Next time you fly with a Singaporean, Malaysian or Indian SP try to engage her in a little conversation... (not during the meal service!)... find out what makes them tick. Remembering her name would be good start.

Next time you are on a rest period, or are just coming out of the loo, if the meal service is underway just stand by the flight deck door and watch. The cabin crew work their socks off.

Next time you are a pax on a 744, whilst staying out of the way, stand by door 2R and watch how much behind the scenes activity is going on. Then remember that they get HALF the rest we do.

How many of you know that the cabin crew get assessed (by their own version of ERAS) every... yes EVERY... flight. The problem is that the reporting officer is anonymous. There is reverse reporting too. They are encouraged to report against their seniors (at times that may include the cockpit crew). It is hardly conducive to a harmonious working environment.

The established number of cabin crew is being cut all the time in the pursuit of that 'holy grail.' In 1996 we carried 19 cabin crew on the 744, now we carry 17. The service is being constantly upgraded and changed. Occasionally, an ISM will have her own idea of how it should be done; which just might be in complete contravention of the manuals. Then her crew will fear for the write up they are going to get at the end of the flight. The section leader can grade and report at will, safe in the knowledge that it will be unattributable.

You would be astonished at the racism which is endemic within ISD. There is one (very, very large) group who get all the choice trips. Their countrymen are favoured in reports. 'Foreigners' are marked down. They know it happens but can do nothing about it because of the anonymity.

Just as the vast majority of the posts on this forum are submitted by the disgruntled few; so the cabin crew are put off us as a group by those that do not represent us well.

gipilot, I believe you asked the original question in all sincerity and innocence. You may just have opened a real can of worms; and the only people will come out of it badly is the pilots because of a 'pig-headed' lack of understanding and an unwillingness to do their part in fostering some goodwill.

It is up to us. We are the leaders, we are the commanders, we set the example.

Max reheat,
well said!

There is very, very little action goin on here, mate. If you are out of a "real" airline and not this Mickey Mouse one - particular if you are out of one of the European outfits - you will never ever see anything like that in CX - thats a FACT!

Sure you can get one of the girls out if you really wanna make the effort - not that hard - but at the end of the day - you gotta ask you self if its worth it!

Just like Cathay itself - the girls her dont think particular high of you, anyways - all set up by CX - thats the way they want it to be.

Welcome to "The Company" - hope you won't regret it mate! :D

400, 767, Capitalism, and anyone else of similar view (I know I've overlooked some)

A perfectly innocent question:

If the Cabin Crew, generally, are a miserable lot, and just look for opportunities to "write us up", how do you explain the preponderance of Flight Crew who have absolutely no problem with Cabin Crew?

Just asking.

CW

400 jock, no argument, have seen it first hand from the back.
I was referring to the treatment of GIpilot's post ( not by your good self ), way to make a new guy welcome :ok:

How to improve morale!
 

Dump the male flight attendants. No one wanted them in the first place.:eek:

Replace all the female flight attendants with good-looking strippers! What the hell -- they don't even serve decent food anymore, so what's the loss?:ok:

The strippers would at least triple the alcohol sales and get a 'party atmosphere' going in the cabin. And, of course, every businessman in Hong Kong would start flying again, hoping to see naked women.:D

Because of the tips, female flight attendants wouldn't need a salary, thus saving even more money. I suspect tips would be so good that we could charge the women for working the plane and have them kick back 20% of the tips, including lap dances and 'special services.:cool:

Muslims would be afraid to get on the planes for fear of seeing naked women. Hijackings would come to a screeching halt, and the airline industry would see record revenues.

This is definitely a win-win situation if we handle it right -- a golden opportunity to turn a liability into an asset.

Watcha fink Tony?:}

I like the way this guy thinks! Hey, why not issue Mile High Points instead of Air Miles, dependant on how much you spend?

But haven't Hooters already tried something like this in the States?

BB

If thats the one where mother, daughter and grand daughter were all cabin crew on the same flight, I am not surprised it failed!!!:eek: