Why Chinese in Aviation ??(Merged)
The Reverend
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Hong Xing,
. You are quite right, the Chinese language, especially the Cantonese dialect, is extremely colourful and expressive. Go for it but don't tell me to interfere with my mother!
I can express myself more eloquently in Chinese
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BlueEagle:
There is a post on Tech Log dated 30 July 2003 which is of interest to me and I wonder if you would be kind enough to comment on it.
The posting (from Anyewo) has a title in Chinese only and the text is in Chinese only. There is not one word of English. I replied to Anyewo using Chinese only and that post still sits in Tech Log nearly one month later. Considering what you said about the legal ramifications of monitoring all languages (and by the way I agree with this) it seems there is someone within the Tech Log team who could be the moderator we seek. Regards,
Hong Xing
There is a post on Tech Log dated 30 July 2003 which is of interest to me and I wonder if you would be kind enough to comment on it.
The posting (from Anyewo) has a title in Chinese only and the text is in Chinese only. There is not one word of English. I replied to Anyewo using Chinese only and that post still sits in Tech Log nearly one month later. Considering what you said about the legal ramifications of monitoring all languages (and by the way I agree with this) it seems there is someone within the Tech Log team who could be the moderator we seek. Regards,
Hong Xing
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Hong Xing,
- Most Hong Kong Chinese aviation professionals received most of their education in English, and are more comfortable discussing aviation related matters in English, rather than Chinese.
- Most Hong Kong people use traditional Chinese. Many are uncomfortable with and have difficulties reading simplified Chinese. All your messages were written in simplified Chinese.
- Your Chinese looks very stilted to a Hong Konger. They are all written in a very typical mainland style. Hong Kong people don't write like that.
- This is a forum about aviation in Hong Kong. You are welcome to start your own forum about aviation in China in the Chinese language. However, I don't see why does that have anything to do with the Fragrant Harbour forum.
- Most Hong Kong Chinese aviation professionals received most of their education in English, and are more comfortable discussing aviation related matters in English, rather than Chinese.
- Most Hong Kong people use traditional Chinese. Many are uncomfortable with and have difficulties reading simplified Chinese. All your messages were written in simplified Chinese.
- Your Chinese looks very stilted to a Hong Konger. They are all written in a very typical mainland style. Hong Kong people don't write like that.
- This is a forum about aviation in Hong Kong. You are welcome to start your own forum about aviation in China in the Chinese language. However, I don't see why does that have anything to do with the Fragrant Harbour forum.
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I spent an hour in the exec lounge of a european Hilton hotel this evening.
The only other occupants were a large group having an extremely spirited conversation in Arabic. I understood much more than the basics of the entire argument because they were Arab aviators discussing test and acceptance flying along with SOPs and procedures. I understood because the discussion had to be conducted more in English than their native tongue.
Conversely try writing a sentence using longeron and aileron with only genuine English words.
In a technical trade such as ours most languages simply do not have the words to express yourself unless a government decrees it out of sheer bloody mindedness. I'm from a proud Welsh speaking family but even I humbly accept that going home in a 'tacsi' so I can catch the footy on my 'digidol' TV is utter bollocks.
English is the de facto 'World' language and it has precious little to do with perfidious Albion. We have a significant readership in the PRC and they write to us in the language they use professionally. Same with Taiwan.
Nothing to do with being a post-imperial remnant here at the Towers. English is the lingua franca of worldwide aviation even when nations use another of the approved ICAO languages in its own airspace.
Finally, the other foreign language forums all lend themselves to a quick cut and paste into a babel fish type translator to give us a rough and ready indication of whether it needs viewing by one of our legal team.
Therefore it is a case of not now, perhaps not never but certainly not at the moment.
Regards
Rob Lloyd
The only other occupants were a large group having an extremely spirited conversation in Arabic. I understood much more than the basics of the entire argument because they were Arab aviators discussing test and acceptance flying along with SOPs and procedures. I understood because the discussion had to be conducted more in English than their native tongue.
Conversely try writing a sentence using longeron and aileron with only genuine English words.
In a technical trade such as ours most languages simply do not have the words to express yourself unless a government decrees it out of sheer bloody mindedness. I'm from a proud Welsh speaking family but even I humbly accept that going home in a 'tacsi' so I can catch the footy on my 'digidol' TV is utter bollocks.
English is the de facto 'World' language and it has precious little to do with perfidious Albion. We have a significant readership in the PRC and they write to us in the language they use professionally. Same with Taiwan.
Nothing to do with being a post-imperial remnant here at the Towers. English is the lingua franca of worldwide aviation even when nations use another of the approved ICAO languages in its own airspace.
Finally, the other foreign language forums all lend themselves to a quick cut and paste into a babel fish type translator to give us a rough and ready indication of whether it needs viewing by one of our legal team.
Therefore it is a case of not now, perhaps not never but certainly not at the moment.
Regards
Rob Lloyd
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aeneas:
I don't agree with you when you say my Chinese writing is stilted, a little formal perhaps but that's how I like it. Are you aware that Chairman Mao Tze Tung issued instructions to modify the classical written word so that literacy could be expanded and that this has been the policy of Central Government for years. I comply with this but unfortunately the colloquial speakers of Hong Kong are not up to speed. The mandarin speaking people of Taiwan are much better but their style of writing will be imminently improved when Taiwan is united with the motherland.
Pprune Towers:
An imperial edict or decree required no advised consideration and no justification. The emperor simply reached for his royal seal and stamped it into law. (That is of course until 1911.) I am pleased to hear you have contact with the People Republic of China and Taiwan.
Regards,
Hong Xing
I don't agree with you when you say my Chinese writing is stilted, a little formal perhaps but that's how I like it. Are you aware that Chairman Mao Tze Tung issued instructions to modify the classical written word so that literacy could be expanded and that this has been the policy of Central Government for years. I comply with this but unfortunately the colloquial speakers of Hong Kong are not up to speed. The mandarin speaking people of Taiwan are much better but their style of writing will be imminently improved when Taiwan is united with the motherland.
Pprune Towers:
An imperial edict or decree required no advised consideration and no justification. The emperor simply reached for his royal seal and stamped it into law. (That is of course until 1911.) I am pleased to hear you have contact with the People Republic of China and Taiwan.
Regards,
Hong Xing
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The reason Microsoft became such an industrial giant is because computer programming language is common worldwide. 80%+ of the world's PCs runs on MS Windows. Granted there might be regional language version of Windows, but the basic computer code is the same.
Aviation (flying and engineering) is the same. Even the French Airbus have their manuals in English. This will prevent accidents by eliminating ambiguous meanings. The Chinese started all English ATC in Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou FIRs on Sep. 1st for the same reason.
I understand Hong Xing patriotic reasons for using Chinese but most aviation professional will not mind discussing technical matters in English. This is not a matter of discrimination or national pride but a matter of practicality. As they say, the winners writes the history books. If the Germans and Japanese have won WWII we would be flying Junkers and Zeros! Sayonara!
Aviation (flying and engineering) is the same. Even the French Airbus have their manuals in English. This will prevent accidents by eliminating ambiguous meanings. The Chinese started all English ATC in Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou FIRs on Sep. 1st for the same reason.
I understand Hong Xing patriotic reasons for using Chinese but most aviation professional will not mind discussing technical matters in English. This is not a matter of discrimination or national pride but a matter of practicality. As they say, the winners writes the history books. If the Germans and Japanese have won WWII we would be flying Junkers and Zeros! Sayonara!
Last edited by Dixi Normus; 3rd Sep 2003 at 16:29.
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Sure it's an ommitted language.
Last week an MOR was raised by a CX A330 crew who couldn't understand a single word the (HAECO) ground engineer was saying on the headset.
Eventually the S/O a native Cantonese speaker spoke to the engineer and worked out that he was saying 'don't start the engines until we have pushed you back further'.
Great ;-)
Last week an MOR was raised by a CX A330 crew who couldn't understand a single word the (HAECO) ground engineer was saying on the headset.
Eventually the S/O a native Cantonese speaker spoke to the engineer and worked out that he was saying 'don't start the engines until we have pushed you back further'.
Great ;-)
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Chinese?
Hong Xing from my limited understanding of the spoken Chinese language albiet Mandarin.
Clear to Take-Off is Clear to Start Driving as its literate English translation and Clear to Land is Clear to Touch Land
I fail to see how Fragrant Harbour would benefit from such a proposal except to allienate English speakers.
Clear to Take-Off is Clear to Start Driving as its literate English translation and Clear to Land is Clear to Touch Land
I fail to see how Fragrant Harbour would benefit from such a proposal except to allienate English speakers.
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for Hong Xing
Hong Xing, Mighty Han Language Warrior, you are sorely mistaken.
So, Paedophile Mao, your chosen standard bearer of Han superiority, was duly elected in a China-wide election and given the mandate to eliminate all variations of the Chinese language?
Oh, you say he wasn't elected? That means he must have assumed the Mandate of Heaven to achieve the legitimacy necessary to justify the horrors (not all of them linguistic) he brought down on China, the very political theory which his enemies the Qing, et al, used to justify their grasp on power. Does Putonghua have a word for "irony"? Does it have one that means "egregious abuse of power"?
There will be an improvement in the Chinese language when Taiwan reassumes control of the Mainland because they will introduce several colorful expressions like:
"ELECTION",
"HUMAN RIGHTS",
and
"DON'T MASSACRE UNARMED STUDENTS",
or maybe,
"BRUSH THAT DAMN RACIAL CHIP OFF YOUR SHOULDER AND GET ON WITH BEING A MEMBER OF THE HUMAN RACE".
Kindest regards (or Zaijian, if you prefer, as you almost certainly will not because it is not written in Syphlitic Mao's horrifically ugly simplified Hanzi),
Kazumichik
P.S. I know that your pride is hurt by the fact that the world's language is English and not your own. The French have gotten over this; perhaps it is time for you to do the same. And you might do so by realizing that having large numbers of Chinese in the world does not mean that Beijing Mandarin ought to replace English. The world doesn't work that way.
Perhaps you could spend your time more productively. Finding a few of the millions of highly capable IT types in China and setting up a Mandarin aviation message board would be a good idea. If you do that I will not get on it and whine and complain and tell you what this or that English-speaking political leader said or did with regard to the English language. I promise.
So, Paedophile Mao, your chosen standard bearer of Han superiority, was duly elected in a China-wide election and given the mandate to eliminate all variations of the Chinese language?
Oh, you say he wasn't elected? That means he must have assumed the Mandate of Heaven to achieve the legitimacy necessary to justify the horrors (not all of them linguistic) he brought down on China, the very political theory which his enemies the Qing, et al, used to justify their grasp on power. Does Putonghua have a word for "irony"? Does it have one that means "egregious abuse of power"?
There will be an improvement in the Chinese language when Taiwan reassumes control of the Mainland because they will introduce several colorful expressions like:
"ELECTION",
"HUMAN RIGHTS",
and
"DON'T MASSACRE UNARMED STUDENTS",
or maybe,
"BRUSH THAT DAMN RACIAL CHIP OFF YOUR SHOULDER AND GET ON WITH BEING A MEMBER OF THE HUMAN RACE".
Kindest regards (or Zaijian, if you prefer, as you almost certainly will not because it is not written in Syphlitic Mao's horrifically ugly simplified Hanzi),
Kazumichik
P.S. I know that your pride is hurt by the fact that the world's language is English and not your own. The French have gotten over this; perhaps it is time for you to do the same. And you might do so by realizing that having large numbers of Chinese in the world does not mean that Beijing Mandarin ought to replace English. The world doesn't work that way.
Perhaps you could spend your time more productively. Finding a few of the millions of highly capable IT types in China and setting up a Mandarin aviation message board would be a good idea. If you do that I will not get on it and whine and complain and tell you what this or that English-speaking political leader said or did with regard to the English language. I promise.
Last edited by kazumichik; 8th Sep 2003 at 01:47.
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To : All National pilots of PRC, Hong Kong and Taiwan
I trust you have observed the way my simple request to use both Chinese and English has drawn out an anti-Chinese element and I would like to suggest you file this fact in your memory bank. It was not my intention to fan jian ji (sow discord and create enmity) but the fools of Pprune have headed it in that direction. Driven no doubt by a feeling of insecurity.
To: The closet dwellers
You negative speakers have nicely watered the seed I planted. Stick around and watch it grow.
Hong Xing
I trust you have observed the way my simple request to use both Chinese and English has drawn out an anti-Chinese element and I would like to suggest you file this fact in your memory bank. It was not my intention to fan jian ji (sow discord and create enmity) but the fools of Pprune have headed it in that direction. Driven no doubt by a feeling of insecurity.
To: The closet dwellers
You negative speakers have nicely watered the seed I planted. Stick around and watch it grow.
Hong Xing
To Hong Xing,
Do you normally throw your toys when you don't get your way?
That last post was impressive to say the least.
The honorable way to react in this instance would be the thank PPRUNE for considering your request, then accept their decision as the decree of the mighty ruler of this space.
You are obviously an individual struggling in the sea of freedom.
Good luck to you in your future endeavours.
Do you normally throw your toys when you don't get your way?
That last post was impressive to say the least.
The honorable way to react in this instance would be the thank PPRUNE for considering your request, then accept their decision as the decree of the mighty ruler of this space.
You are obviously an individual struggling in the sea of freedom.
Good luck to you in your future endeavours.
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Geagte meneer moderator,
Ek wil graag vra dat FRAGRANT HARBOUR hervernoem word na:
STINKGAT HAWE
en dat hierdie forum in die toekoms slegs in AFRIKAANS aangebied sal word,want ek voel dat daar teen al die "japies" in CX ge-diskrimineer word...
Baie dankie vir u moeite
Die uwe
Slapfaan
(English version)
Dear moderator,
I hereby wish to request that FRAGRANT HARBOUR be re-named:
STINKGAT HAWE (afrikaans version)
and that this forum be conducted in AFRIKAANS only,because I feel that all the "japies" here at CX are being discriminated against....
Thank you for all your trouble
Yours sincerely
Slapfaan
Ek wil graag vra dat FRAGRANT HARBOUR hervernoem word na:
STINKGAT HAWE
en dat hierdie forum in die toekoms slegs in AFRIKAANS aangebied sal word,want ek voel dat daar teen al die "japies" in CX ge-diskrimineer word...
Baie dankie vir u moeite
Die uwe
Slapfaan
(English version)
Dear moderator,
I hereby wish to request that FRAGRANT HARBOUR be re-named:
STINKGAT HAWE (afrikaans version)
and that this forum be conducted in AFRIKAANS only,because I feel that all the "japies" here at CX are being discriminated against....
Thank you for all your trouble
Yours sincerely
Slapfaan
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"KA is interested in hiring chinese cadets, not just people that have the right of abode in HK like CX.
What about chinese people who can't speak chinese, or white people who can speak chinese.
Interested to know whether it's a race thing or a language thing.
What about chinese people who can't speak chinese, or white people who can speak chinese.
Interested to know whether it's a race thing or a language thing.
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Cadet Pilots are considered as part of Cabin Crew?
I ask what I ask because I'm Chinese, but I can't really speak any Chinese. If they prefer Chinese Cadets over Expat/Caucasian Cadets then I'm good to go. If they prefer Chinese Cadets over Expat Cadets because they want Chinese speaking Cadets, then I'm at a disadvantage.
I ask what I ask because I'm Chinese, but I can't really speak any Chinese. If they prefer Chinese Cadets over Expat/Caucasian Cadets then I'm good to go. If they prefer Chinese Cadets over Expat Cadets because they want Chinese speaking Cadets, then I'm at a disadvantage.
Thread Starter
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Cadets are NOT cabin crew ! I feel its the race thing. KA wants Chinese only, no matter what position. Unlike CX who has a good mix of Multi ethnic pilots and cabin crew.
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I could buy back into this with something real to say if only I could respond in Chinese. Blue Eagle would not like that as Chinese is forbidden in his English only celestrial empire so a comment in English must suffice. Dragon Air have got it right and if people like Comrade Ronnie 123 can't understand that then they should stay away. After all Dragon Air is a Chinese oriented airline. Simple really, one does not need a lot of brains to understand their policy.
Regards to all (including the unenlightened).
Hong Xing
Regards to all (including the unenlightened).
Hong Xing