Why Chinese in Aviation ??(Merged)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hong Xing
Yes, I did pass on the ruling of the owners of this Bulletin Board regarding the use of a foreign language and I seem to remember that Prune Towers spelt it out for you? We don't live in a celestial (you did mean celestial didn't you?) empire unfortunately, just the aviation world in which less than two percent have a reasonable command of the Chinese language and specifically on PPRuNe where I would suggest that less than one percent can understand Chinese.
Not quite sure, therefore, why you would wish to express yourself in Chinese rather than English and have less than one percent of readers have a clue what you are talking about?
And as a matter of interest, are you the person to ask why it is that the converted from other languages and cultures are often more intense and devoted about their adopted culture/language than those actually born within a particular culture and or language?
Not quite sure, therefore, why you would wish to express yourself in Chinese rather than English and have less than one percent of readers have a clue what you are talking about?
And as a matter of interest, are you the person to ask why it is that the converted from other languages and cultures are often more intense and devoted about their adopted culture/language than those actually born within a particular culture and or language?
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hong Xing, if you are sincere in advancing the cause for the implementation of the Chinese language into the everyday transactions and communications of the aviation community then may I humbly suggest you stay away from your keyboard for you do nothing but further your cause from fruition. Further, your grating diatribe is irritating and belies your lack of experience and maturity.
And finally my regards to you ..............for you are the unenlightened.
And finally my regards to you ..............for you are the unenlightened.
Last edited by fire wall; 24th Oct 2003 at 06:41.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the comfy chair.
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps KA needs more pilots who can curse out the Chinese ATC whenever they issue contradictory clearances.
Or maybe they just need more Chinese speaking pilots to cover for the cabin crew whenever they're short in the back. You know, send the s/o to the cattle class to serve Diet Coke and cup noodles.
Oh who knows. Maybe it is a race thing afterall. Though really, I reckon this is more or less a minor detail (it is only a requirement for local crew, not expat), perhaps blown out of proportion.
However, I suppose everything gets blown out of proportion on PPrune. Otherwise, it should remove the word 'rumour' from the moniker...
Or maybe they just need more Chinese speaking pilots to cover for the cabin crew whenever they're short in the back. You know, send the s/o to the cattle class to serve Diet Coke and cup noodles.
Oh who knows. Maybe it is a race thing afterall. Though really, I reckon this is more or less a minor detail (it is only a requirement for local crew, not expat), perhaps blown out of proportion.
However, I suppose everything gets blown out of proportion on PPrune. Otherwise, it should remove the word 'rumour' from the moniker...
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Xiang Gang
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blue Eagle:
I don't know where you obtained that figure of one percent but what I do know is that this matter is of interest to the hundreds of pilots that now fly for Dragon Air and Cathay. Even you must concede this is an ever increasing number whereas your faithful are decreasing. In any case you and I will never agree on this issue as it is apparent that we are poles apart. The best we can hope for is to try and keep our disagreement civilised.
Yes I did mean celestial. The r slipped in because I broke my own rule regarding checking the English dictionary for the spelling of words that I don't often use.
Finally I am somewhat bemused to read your insinuations that equate patriotism with ( for example ) that notorious group known as the 516. Are you implying that I am a 516 er and if you are then I find this for any number of reasons most derogatory. It does you no credit. Regards,
Hong Xing
I don't know where you obtained that figure of one percent but what I do know is that this matter is of interest to the hundreds of pilots that now fly for Dragon Air and Cathay. Even you must concede this is an ever increasing number whereas your faithful are decreasing. In any case you and I will never agree on this issue as it is apparent that we are poles apart. The best we can hope for is to try and keep our disagreement civilised.
Yes I did mean celestial. The r slipped in because I broke my own rule regarding checking the English dictionary for the spelling of words that I don't often use.
Finally I am somewhat bemused to read your insinuations that equate patriotism with ( for example ) that notorious group known as the 516. Are you implying that I am a 516 er and if you are then I find this for any number of reasons most derogatory. It does you no credit. Regards,
Hong Xing
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hong Xing
You flatter yourself!
I have not the slightest idea what a "516er" is, not a clue.
Reading through your various posts you come across as a Westerner, in English you don't sound one bit Chinese. That is all, no conspiracy, no insinuation, nothing.
I have not the slightest idea what a "516er" is, not a clue.
Reading through your various posts you come across as a Westerner, in English you don't sound one bit Chinese. That is all, no conspiracy, no insinuation, nothing.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Asia
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hong,
You did not reply , Then why is Beijing And Shanghai changing to ENGLISH ATC.
Its a simple question I had asked in the begining "Why Chinese in Aviation"
no race , no ideals , no pro asia or anti asia, non of that. Iam asian too, all I wanted was some more info on the subject and look what you have it into. I have 2 words for you COMRADE "INFERIORITY COMPLEX"
You did not reply , Then why is Beijing And Shanghai changing to ENGLISH ATC.
Its a simple question I had asked in the begining "Why Chinese in Aviation"
no race , no ideals , no pro asia or anti asia, non of that. Iam asian too, all I wanted was some more info on the subject and look what you have it into. I have 2 words for you COMRADE "INFERIORITY COMPLEX"
The Reverend
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Why Chinese in Aviation"
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Xiang Gang
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blue Eagle:
You are perfectly at liberty to form whatever conclusions you wish but whatever those conclusions are it will not change the matter in hand one iota. It is not for me to give you a history lesson and I don't intend to do that but if I did you might change your views especially if I reminded you that there are a number of English spearking countries where one can be educated. Considering your position as a moderator who is expected to have an in depth knowledge of Asian affairs I am surprised at your frank admission about the 516. Sadly you can't flatter yourself but if you ever find the answer I will be the first to congratulate you.
Regards (Wen Hou),
Hong Xing
You are perfectly at liberty to form whatever conclusions you wish but whatever those conclusions are it will not change the matter in hand one iota. It is not for me to give you a history lesson and I don't intend to do that but if I did you might change your views especially if I reminded you that there are a number of English spearking countries where one can be educated. Considering your position as a moderator who is expected to have an in depth knowledge of Asian affairs I am surprised at your frank admission about the 516. Sadly you can't flatter yourself but if you ever find the answer I will be the first to congratulate you.
Regards (Wen Hou),
Hong Xing
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Asia
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hong,
Why would you choose to be educated in English and then go on about the chinese bit
And you still dont answer my question? You call me names etc, but dont answer my questions.
Why would you choose to be educated in English and then go on about the chinese bit
And you still dont answer my question? You call me names etc, but dont answer my questions.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Blue Eagle,
I know a bit about 516, it is an even number, it is the one before 517 and the one after 515. It also relates to an initiative in California (I think) which is an ESL - English as a second language - project. Bit sensitive our little stirrer is. I have never understood the racist rubbish he goes on with. As far as I understand it English is THE language for aviation in ALL the world, even the French know this, you can use national language in communication with internal carriers. But, in aviation it is English all the way. Why do CX and CI insist on abilities to speak and read a Chinese language? Answer they don't. Certainly doesn't hurt especially if you have a bit of Mandarin, however, a good candidate will get a Cadet slot notwithstanding only speaking English. Good stirring Hong keep it up. But don't think anyone is taking you seriously - you lack credibility.
PS. Being involved in CX aircrew employment I confirm that localisation is an agenda for at least CX. However that said, maybe in that fifty years that affects Xiang Gang so directly we may see an increase in the one odd percent of pilots at CX. Certainly not at present, currently recruiting for FO and SO spots as hard as we can interview. If we put all the applicants in a room and gassed them we would not hurt a single Chinese person. Localisation is only coming through the cadet programme and it is going to take a long, long, long time to achieve that goal.
I know a bit about 516, it is an even number, it is the one before 517 and the one after 515. It also relates to an initiative in California (I think) which is an ESL - English as a second language - project. Bit sensitive our little stirrer is. I have never understood the racist rubbish he goes on with. As far as I understand it English is THE language for aviation in ALL the world, even the French know this, you can use national language in communication with internal carriers. But, in aviation it is English all the way. Why do CX and CI insist on abilities to speak and read a Chinese language? Answer they don't. Certainly doesn't hurt especially if you have a bit of Mandarin, however, a good candidate will get a Cadet slot notwithstanding only speaking English. Good stirring Hong keep it up. But don't think anyone is taking you seriously - you lack credibility.
PS. Being involved in CX aircrew employment I confirm that localisation is an agenda for at least CX. However that said, maybe in that fifty years that affects Xiang Gang so directly we may see an increase in the one odd percent of pilots at CX. Certainly not at present, currently recruiting for FO and SO spots as hard as we can interview. If we put all the applicants in a room and gassed them we would not hurt a single Chinese person. Localisation is only coming through the cadet programme and it is going to take a long, long, long time to achieve that goal.
Last edited by shortly; 26th Oct 2003 at 14:01.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most of the chinese F/O's I flew with couldn't speak Mandarin but only spoke Cantonese, so they weren't much use from the linguistic point of view. The recruitment of chinese cadets only is clearly a race thing. It is strange that in the rest of the world there is movement towards racial equality, but not in China. If you want a Hong Kong permanent I.D. card you must be of chinese race. So racial inequality is even official there.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Xiang Gang
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
shortly:
Your open letter to Blue Eagle is absolute rubbish. You know nothing about the notorious 516 and you have led Blue Eagle up a false path. If this is the depth of your knowledge then one must wonder about all the rest of what you say especially the part about being involved in CX recruitment. The only thing you have managed to get right is , quote:" " English is the language of aviation" unquote. Blue Eagle and I are not disputing this, we never have, we are debating an entirely different issue which you don't seem to understand. Are you sure you are OK? By the way the web search does not know everything. (Ni de yu yan hen bu li mao!!! Chu Kou Shang Ren. Translated this means : your language is not polite.)
Hong Xing
ronnie 123:
Take it easy my friend, we have lots of time. My input here is only concerned with a request to allow Chinese to be used on Fragrant Harbour as an addition to English. This is no more than is allowed on any other of the foreign forums which run with both the local lanaguage and English. However the Pprune commissars have said No and there the matter rests. I trust this clears things for you.
Regards,
Hong Xing
Flap 5:
What we are debating here has nothing whatsoever to do with the spoken word . Whether it be Cantonese , Hakka, Hokkien, Mandarin or any other dialect it does not matter. We are talking of the written character which is universal to all Chinese people.
Regards,
Hong Xing
Your open letter to Blue Eagle is absolute rubbish. You know nothing about the notorious 516 and you have led Blue Eagle up a false path. If this is the depth of your knowledge then one must wonder about all the rest of what you say especially the part about being involved in CX recruitment. The only thing you have managed to get right is , quote:" " English is the language of aviation" unquote. Blue Eagle and I are not disputing this, we never have, we are debating an entirely different issue which you don't seem to understand. Are you sure you are OK? By the way the web search does not know everything. (Ni de yu yan hen bu li mao!!! Chu Kou Shang Ren. Translated this means : your language is not polite.)
Hong Xing
ronnie 123:
Take it easy my friend, we have lots of time. My input here is only concerned with a request to allow Chinese to be used on Fragrant Harbour as an addition to English. This is no more than is allowed on any other of the foreign forums which run with both the local lanaguage and English. However the Pprune commissars have said No and there the matter rests. I trust this clears things for you.
Regards,
Hong Xing
Flap 5:
What we are debating here has nothing whatsoever to do with the spoken word . Whether it be Cantonese , Hakka, Hokkien, Mandarin or any other dialect it does not matter. We are talking of the written character which is universal to all Chinese people.
Regards,
Hong Xing
shortly said:
Gas their pilot applicants? Would this be rather revealing insight into someone who claims to be associated with CX management of human resources?
Being involved in CX aircrew employment I confirm that localisation is an agenda for at least CX.
...currently recruiting for FO and SO spots as hard as we can interview. If we put all the applicants in a room and gassed them we would not hurt a single Chinese person.
...currently recruiting for FO and SO spots as hard as we can interview. If we put all the applicants in a room and gassed them we would not hurt a single Chinese person.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flap 5 wrote:
"If you want a Hong Kong permanent I.D. card you must be of chinese race"
That's rubbish. Anyone who lives legally in HK for 7 years (except on a Domestic Helper visa) can apply (and nearly always get) a Permanent ID card.
To get a HK Passport you need to take Chinese citizenship. There used to be a racial criterion for this, but this has been relaxed over the last few years. There are now quite a few HK citizens who are not ethnically Chinese - most are ethnically Indian, but there are a few ethic Europeans, including Mike Rowse, head of InvestHK.
"If you want a Hong Kong permanent I.D. card you must be of chinese race"
That's rubbish. Anyone who lives legally in HK for 7 years (except on a Domestic Helper visa) can apply (and nearly always get) a Permanent ID card.
To get a HK Passport you need to take Chinese citizenship. There used to be a racial criterion for this, but this has been relaxed over the last few years. There are now quite a few HK citizens who are not ethnically Chinese - most are ethnically Indian, but there are a few ethic Europeans, including Mike Rowse, head of InvestHK.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are two types of Permanent ID Card.
I'm still unsure as to what the chinese race one gives you over the other one. Or maybe it is just to differentiate us chinese over other races
I'm still unsure as to what the chinese race one gives you over the other one. Or maybe it is just to differentiate us chinese over other races
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Christep,
I was resident in Hong Kong for 10 years. I was given a 'Hong Kong Identity Card'. It was not a 'Permanent Identity Card' as that is ONLY given to persons of Chinese race. I was told this by an official when I got my I.D. card, so I am not just shooting my mouth off - which you appear to be doing.
mrben,
The Permanent I.D. card means that you have the right of abode in Hong Kong and if you were to comit a deportable crime you would not be deported out of Hong Kong, which you would be with the I.D. card aquired after 7 years of residence. You also can vote in 'local elections' (for what they are worth) with a Permanent I.D. card, but not with the 'Hong Kong Identity Card'. I was not able to vote in the local elections (in 1997?), despite being strongly canvassed at the time.
I was resident in Hong Kong for 10 years. I was given a 'Hong Kong Identity Card'. It was not a 'Permanent Identity Card' as that is ONLY given to persons of Chinese race. I was told this by an official when I got my I.D. card, so I am not just shooting my mouth off - which you appear to be doing.
mrben,
The Permanent I.D. card means that you have the right of abode in Hong Kong and if you were to comit a deportable crime you would not be deported out of Hong Kong, which you would be with the I.D. card aquired after 7 years of residence. You also can vote in 'local elections' (for what they are worth) with a Permanent I.D. card, but not with the 'Hong Kong Identity Card'. I was not able to vote in the local elections (in 1997?), despite being strongly canvassed at the time.
The Reverend
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flap5, I was a resident of Hong Kong for 33 years. They do issue Permanent ID cards to non Chinese residents if you can prove residency for more than 7 years.
[1] Schedule 1 to the Immigration Ordinance (Cap. 115) states that:
2. Permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
A person who is within one of the following categories is a permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region-
(a) A Chinese citizen born in Hong Kong before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region. (Replaced L.N. 192 of 1999. Amended L.N. 84 of 2002)
(b) A Chinese citizen who has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.
(c) A person of Chinese nationality born outside Hong Kong before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region to a parent who, at the time of birth of that person, was a Chinese citizen falling within category (a) or (b). (Replaced L.N. 192 of 1999)
(d) A person not of Chinese nationality who has entered Hong Kong with a valid travel document, has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years and has taken Hong Kong as his place of permanent residence before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.
(e) A person under 21 years of age born in Hong Kong to a parent who is a permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region in category (d) before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region if at the time of his birth or at any later time before he attains 21 years of age, one of his parents has the right of abode in Hong Kong.
(f) A person other than those residents in categories (a) to (e), who, before the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, had the right of abode in Hong Kong only.
[1] Schedule 1 to the Immigration Ordinance (Cap. 115) states that:
2. Permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
A person who is within one of the following categories is a permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region-
(a) A Chinese citizen born in Hong Kong before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region. (Replaced L.N. 192 of 1999. Amended L.N. 84 of 2002)
(b) A Chinese citizen who has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.
(c) A person of Chinese nationality born outside Hong Kong before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region to a parent who, at the time of birth of that person, was a Chinese citizen falling within category (a) or (b). (Replaced L.N. 192 of 1999)
(d) A person not of Chinese nationality who has entered Hong Kong with a valid travel document, has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years and has taken Hong Kong as his place of permanent residence before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.
(e) A person under 21 years of age born in Hong Kong to a parent who is a permanent resident of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region in category (d) before or after the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region if at the time of his birth or at any later time before he attains 21 years of age, one of his parents has the right of abode in Hong Kong.
(f) A person other than those residents in categories (a) to (e), who, before the establishment of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, had the right of abode in Hong Kong only.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: here
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I don't really want a part of this but I will support Hong Xing in his desire to have the right to use mandarin in a Chinese PPRune Forum. Why not? They have Nordic etc even if its in Pinyin instead of traditional characters where's the harm?