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Cathay Pacific imploding.

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Cathay Pacific imploding.

Old 15th Jul 2023, 22:16
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Oasis
You just listed the lowest paying european low cost airlines. Why don't you compare it with a legacy carrier, they are hiring too.
That is exactly the issue, most airlines who hire in Europe are indeed low cost now. Check for yourself. Legacy carriers either go for cadets like Cathay or use cheaper sub-brands to pay less (Transavia, Eurowings, Air Belgium etc).

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 15th Jul 2023 at 22:26.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 00:09
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Originally Posted by VforVENDETTA
There will always be takers?

Is that why cathay has missed every single flight schedule restoration target it has set for itself since 2+ years ago? because they always have enough takers?

They can't attract people for any job description for quite some time now.

How about the few fake logbook aces that were struggling in training before they were found out to have fake logbooks?

How about the rash of hard landings on the 747 fleet a few months ago?

The lesser number of people they're getting seens to be a much lower grade of pilots the great mighty cathay pacific used to fetch. 1st face to face interview at various locations worldwide, some got invited for the hk 2 full days of various batteries of testing and assessment. 5 out of 20 would get the coveted job offer in the end. With the much lowered standards they're still not getting enough to not miss every target they set for re-expansion.

Every action has a result. Everything they have done to the pay and benefits of their employees will always translate down to every aspect of the business. You get what you pay for. Its impossible the business will flurish and become similarly profitable or successful once again. Those employees of the past are gone. They no longer exist. Wether those who have left (2000 of them pilots) or those who are still there but no longer give a sh!t about anything and will leave 1st chance they get.

Those who are coming at a tricle are selected by a much lower standard selection process. They'll never be able to perform like those of the past.

The spotless safety records of the past are in the past. The impeccable customer service is a thing of the past.
Impeccably maintained aircraft are a thing of the past.
Very well said
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 00:13
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
Check the payscales at the few airlines who hire at the moment: Whizzair, Lot, Air Baltic,Ryanair, Aerologic and Eurowings. Maybe sit down before you do first, and don't hold a hot coffee in your hand. If you digested that, substract 40% tax.
I'm in the US earning more here as an FO than I did as a year 11 Captain in CX. Go figure...

Go look at the figures for SO 1 and FO 1 in CX after tax? Add to that the living costs of Hong Kong, having a family and finding yourselves a decent condo to live in. Maybe sit down before you do first, and don't hold a hot coffee in your hand.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 00:31
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The story goes that senior management’s preferred option was to hire more direct entry F/O’s in order to quickly ( read cheaply ) recover crewing levels on the basis of less required training sectors. FOP management argued that with SO’s approaching 7 years in rank this would cause significant dissent amongst the crew. their efforts to improve the ‘business case’ for upgrading existing crew involved a reduction in the upgrade training footprint if the trainee was up to the task. This of course puts vastly more pressure on the training system to maintain standards, as is always the case with CX it comes down to money! Personally I think it’s only a matter of time until it bites them on the arse.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 02:48
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong

There is no global pilot shortage either, but a regional one in US and Australia. No shortage in SA, Europe and Asia. And I doubt a shortage of cadets is even technically possible, considering the profile of applicants and associated alternative job perspectives.
BA mainline and Euroflyer have been hiring for a while now, and just announced that they will need 500 pilots for the next 2 years, and have re-opened their Newly Qualified Pilot Pathway as well as announced their Whitetail Recruitment programme.

https://www.pilotcareernews.com/brit...uitment-plans/
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 03:45
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Originally Posted by Fac6
I'm in the US earning more here as an FO than I did as a year 11 Captain in CX. Go figure...

Go look at the figures for SO 1 and FO 1 in CX after tax? Add to that the living costs of Hong Kong, having a family and finding yourselves a decent condo to live in. Maybe sit down before you do first, and don't hold a hot coffee in your hand.
As someone else who also made the jump to the US from CX, the increase in quality of life alone is monumental and I would never go back. The pay is just an added bonus at this point and itís amazing how much further money can take you when you donít spend the majority on renting a tiny apartment.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 06:51
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Cxflog et al., the US is a different market and closed for most of us. It's completely irrelevant to me and many more, Sorry, no offense, but I feel like a broken record, how many times do we have to go over this again and again?

Originally Posted by Gnadenburg
Not sure if you just like being some sort of contrarian but thereís not just a regional pilot shortage in the US. Demand is now untapped and expansion plans are being crippled at many carriers..
Which airlines would that be please? We all know that if you pay low enough you get a shortage of applicants, but can you name an airline in Asia or Europe (UK if you have the passport only) that offers decent salary, working hours and a reasonable promotion path? I would agree there are options if you are 30ish F/O and flexible. But the typical expat pilot in Cathay is older, has a command or is very close to it. A cadet or junior officer job at a "legacy carrier" is out of the question for most. . Not trying to be contrarian, this is my personal first hand experience of the current market. Lifestyle choices are all good and well, the offers I have seen more resemble financial suicide or volunteer admission into labor camps.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 16th Jul 2023 at 09:57.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 07:40
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Big Jet TV. LHR A50 yesterday!


Cathay ?239 at around the 2hr 10 min mark.
Lovely landing by a Sing jumbo immediately after.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 08:55
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Originally Posted by Fly747
https://www.youtube.com/live/BGAIQqoGGZ0?feature=share

Cathay ?239 at around the 2hr 10 min mark.
"Want to add anything to Vapp for the wind? No thanks, fleet office says no need." 🤣
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 10:01
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Didn’t know you let the SO land now days!!
Bloody awful technique
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 10:26
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
Cxflog et al., the US is a different market and closed for most of us. It's completely irrelevant to me and many more, Sorry, no offense, but I feel like a broken record, how many times do we have to go over this again and again?



Which airlines would that be please? We all know that if you pay low enough you get a shortage of applicants, but can you name an airline in Asia or Europe (UK if you have the passport only) that offers decent salary, working hours and a reasonable promotion path? I would agree there are options if you are 30ish F/O and flexible. But the typical expat pilot in Cathay is older, has a command or is very close to it. A cadet or junior officer job at a "legacy carrier" is out of the question for most. . Not trying to be contrarian, this is my personal first hand experience of the current market. Lifestyle choices are all good and well, the offers I have seen more resemble financial suicide or volunteer admission into labor camps.
I've literally just told you. BA are hiring DEFO / DEC and are conservatively estimating 500 pilots for just the next two years, saying nothing of the years following that.
Apparently you just want to ignore facts.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 11:23
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Angle_of_Attack
I've literally just told you. BA are hiring DEFO / DEC and are conservatively estimating 500 pilots for just the next two years, saying nothing of the years following that.
Apparently you just want to ignore facts.
They do not hire non-UK citizens for starters. Any experienced 40yr-ish candidate hired as F/O would be a F/O for life even if they would hire you, which they don't. The direct entry positions are at Cityflyer, exactly what I said, they are using sub-brands, with the same restrictions. You also need the license, the type rating and the hours. .

You just literally repeated the same unhelpful statement twice, with all due respect. And it is you who ignores facts. It would be a paycut in the region of 60-70% for a Cx captain, are you really not aware of that? Hard to believe.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 16th Jul 2023 at 11:39.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 11:52
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
They do not hire non-UK citizens for starters. Any experienced 40yr-ish candidate hired as F/O would be a F/O for life even if they would hire you, which they don't. The direct entry positions are at Cityflyer, exactly what I said, they are using sub-brands, with the same restrictions. You also need the license, the type rating and the hours. .

You just literally repeated the same unhelpful statement twice, with all due respect. And it is you who ignores facts. It would be a paycut in the region of 60-70% for a Cx captain, are you really not aware of that? Hard to believe.
What are you on about? All my comments have been in response to your comment regarding there "not being a global pilot shortage" and your question to show you demand in Europe.
Your personal eligibility has nothing to do with any of those questions or the responses.
BA is hiring Captains for Euroflyer, not Cityflyer and DEFO is for Heathrow (aka BA Mainline) and Euroflyer, not Cityflyer. Again, you're disregarding facts.

"To be considered for BA Euroflyer at the time of submitting online application Ė 500 hours or 100 sectors on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT*

To be considered for British Airways at the time of submitted online application Ė 500 hours or 100 sectors on the A320 or 1500 hours on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT and flown this type in the last 12 months*"

Plus, Joining BA means you have the ability to move within fleets. BA's cabin crew union have just negotiated a pay rise, I assume the same can be expected for flight crew if it hasn't happened yet.
However, there is much more that factors into quality of life than just the number that ends up in your bank account each month.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 12:11
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Take a read of the BA hiring thread. Commands went to those with a year in the company (320 LHR base), yes it's an anomaly but your assertion that you'll be an FO for life is wrong at the moment.....
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 12:11
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
When you are done halucinating read the fine print. I can't believe you are trying to sell this bs to colleagues just to get some attention..
  • Currently operating in command on A320 in the last 6 months with 3500 total time and 1000 PIC on type
  • Current UK issued CAA Flight Crew Licence ATPL (A) or conversion to UK CAA licence initiated.
  • Right to work in the UK

Euroflyer is a LOW COST brand, jesus christ. The pay after tax is miserable Stop pretending this is a good job and out of reach for 99% in Cathay anyway. IThis is embarrassing and a waste of time, over and out
Not trying to sell anything to anyone - just pointing out that you are wrong and that demand is growing - still strictly responding to your comment about there being no pilot shortage.
Seems that you struggle to admit when you're wrong and are instead trying to make it about something else.

I must've missed your post asking us to help you find a new job.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 18:23
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong

Which airlines would that be please? We all know that if you pay low enough you get a shortage of applicants, but can you name an airline in Asia or Europe (UK if you have the passport only) that offers decent salary, working hours and a reasonable promotion path? I would agree there are options if you are 30ish F/O and flexible. But the typical expat pilot in Cathay is older, has a command or is very close to it. A cadet or junior officer job at a "legacy carrier" is out of the question for most. . Not trying to be contrarian, this is my personal first hand experience of the current market. Lifestyle choices are all good and well, the offers I have seen more resemble financial suicide or volunteer admission into labor camps.
I think youíve mixed me up with someone else. I was disputing your claim that thereís only a pilot shortage at US and Australian regionals. I had a comprehensive recruiting brief at Delta and they have an interesting consequence of the structural pilot shortage. They are all hands on deck this summer where their training pilots are being used to fly the line to meet a summer schedule. This is curtailing their expansion.

If you made a lot of money pre-COVID as a CX pilot you have a lot of career choices. This seems to be a pattern in many of the pilots I know or have met who left Cathay. If you didnít I guess you count pennies when comparing airline packages.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 21:49
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donít forget Qantas are severely short of pilots too with a large number of CX guys on the hold file awaiting dates still. The exodus hasnít stopped yet and there are plenty of other options
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Old 17th Jul 2023, 02:11
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The Sam Ting Wongs of the world can put as much of a silly, head-in-the-sand spin on it as they want (for whatever reason)

Bottom line is that decent/experienced pilots are in short supply globally and decent airlines recognise the need to attract/pay/retain appropriately

The 👇 horrendous Cathay landing video doing the social media rounds at present is just one byproduct of 5+ years of myopic corporate decision making. Sincerely hope it’s limited to merely a few bad landings.

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Old 17th Jul 2023, 04:12
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STW wonít admit when heís wrong. Thereís a significant shortage of pilots around the world. As mentioned above, those that made sensible financial decisions have the liberty of choice.

As an aside - if the pay is so poor elsewhere: which way is the flow of traffic?
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Old 17th Jul 2023, 06:33
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STW has NEVER admitted heís wrong, but plenty of people have pointed it out to him in the past.
Itís fun to watch him throw his hands up once in a while and tell all of us he is leaving ppruneÖ..again.
This time he lasted a whole two weeks.

Of course it is OUR fault for not realising he is not eligible to go to the USA, or BA, Lufthansa, KLM etc.
so itís really not fair of us to confront him with THAT particular part of the aviation industry.
In HIS part of the world there is NO pilot shortage and thatís all that matters.
CANíT YOU ALL GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS ALREADY.
He is REALLY getting tired of repeating himself and his same old argument over and over and over again.
Why canít you see his superior intellect?
It is quite obvious to himself!
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