Cathay Pacific imploding.
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Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 15th Jul 2023 at 21:26.
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There will always be takers?
Is that why cathay has missed every single flight schedule restoration target it has set for itself since 2+ years ago? because they always have enough takers?
They can't attract people for any job description for quite some time now.
How about the few fake logbook aces that were struggling in training before they were found out to have fake logbooks?
How about the rash of hard landings on the 747 fleet a few months ago?
The lesser number of people they're getting seens to be a much lower grade of pilots the great mighty cathay pacific used to fetch. 1st face to face interview at various locations worldwide, some got invited for the hk 2 full days of various batteries of testing and assessment. 5 out of 20 would get the coveted job offer in the end. With the much lowered standards they're still not getting enough to not miss every target they set for re-expansion.
Every action has a result. Everything they have done to the pay and benefits of their employees will always translate down to every aspect of the business. You get what you pay for. Its impossible the business will flurish and become similarly profitable or successful once again. Those employees of the past are gone. They no longer exist. Wether those who have left (2000 of them pilots) or those who are still there but no longer give a sh!t about anything and will leave 1st chance they get.
Those who are coming at a tricle are selected by a much lower standard selection process. They'll never be able to perform like those of the past.
The spotless safety records of the past are in the past. The impeccable customer service is a thing of the past.
Impeccably maintained aircraft are a thing of the past.
Is that why cathay has missed every single flight schedule restoration target it has set for itself since 2+ years ago? because they always have enough takers?
They can't attract people for any job description for quite some time now.
How about the few fake logbook aces that were struggling in training before they were found out to have fake logbooks?
How about the rash of hard landings on the 747 fleet a few months ago?
The lesser number of people they're getting seens to be a much lower grade of pilots the great mighty cathay pacific used to fetch. 1st face to face interview at various locations worldwide, some got invited for the hk 2 full days of various batteries of testing and assessment. 5 out of 20 would get the coveted job offer in the end. With the much lowered standards they're still not getting enough to not miss every target they set for re-expansion.
Every action has a result. Everything they have done to the pay and benefits of their employees will always translate down to every aspect of the business. You get what you pay for. Its impossible the business will flurish and become similarly profitable or successful once again. Those employees of the past are gone. They no longer exist. Wether those who have left (2000 of them pilots) or those who are still there but no longer give a sh!t about anything and will leave 1st chance they get.
Those who are coming at a tricle are selected by a much lower standard selection process. They'll never be able to perform like those of the past.
The spotless safety records of the past are in the past. The impeccable customer service is a thing of the past.
Impeccably maintained aircraft are a thing of the past.
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Go look at the figures for SO 1 and FO 1 in CX after tax? Add to that the living costs of Hong Kong, having a family and finding yourselves a decent condo to live in. Maybe sit down before you do first, and don't hold a hot coffee in your hand.
The story goes that senior management’s preferred option was to hire more direct entry F/O’s in order to quickly ( read cheaply ) recover crewing levels on the basis of less required training sectors. FOP management argued that with SO’s approaching 7 years in rank this would cause significant dissent amongst the crew. their efforts to improve the ‘business case’ for upgrading existing crew involved a reduction in the upgrade training footprint if the trainee was up to the task. This of course puts vastly more pressure on the training system to maintain standards, as is always the case with CX it comes down to money! Personally I think it’s only a matter of time until it bites them on the arse.
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https://www.pilotcareernews.com/brit...uitment-plans/
I'm in the US earning more here as an FO than I did as a year 11 Captain in CX. Go figure...
Go look at the figures for SO 1 and FO 1 in CX after tax? Add to that the living costs of Hong Kong, having a family and finding yourselves a decent condo to live in. Maybe sit down before you do first, and don't hold a hot coffee in your hand.
Go look at the figures for SO 1 and FO 1 in CX after tax? Add to that the living costs of Hong Kong, having a family and finding yourselves a decent condo to live in. Maybe sit down before you do first, and don't hold a hot coffee in your hand.
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Cxflog et al., the US is a different market and closed for most of us. It's completely irrelevant to me and many more, Sorry, no offense, but I feel like a broken record, how many times do we have to go over this again and again?
Which airlines would that be please? We all know that if you pay low enough you get a shortage of applicants, but can you name an airline in Asia or Europe (UK if you have the passport only) that offers decent salary, working hours and a reasonable promotion path? I would agree there are options if you are 30ish F/O and flexible. But the typical expat pilot in Cathay is older, has a command or is very close to it. A cadet or junior officer job at a "legacy carrier" is out of the question for most. . Not trying to be contrarian, this is my personal first hand experience of the current market. Lifestyle choices are all good and well, the offers I have seen more resemble financial suicide or volunteer admission into labor camps.
Which airlines would that be please? We all know that if you pay low enough you get a shortage of applicants, but can you name an airline in Asia or Europe (UK if you have the passport only) that offers decent salary, working hours and a reasonable promotion path? I would agree there are options if you are 30ish F/O and flexible. But the typical expat pilot in Cathay is older, has a command or is very close to it. A cadet or junior officer job at a "legacy carrier" is out of the question for most. . Not trying to be contrarian, this is my personal first hand experience of the current market. Lifestyle choices are all good and well, the offers I have seen more resemble financial suicide or volunteer admission into labor camps.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 16th Jul 2023 at 08:57.
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Cxflog et al., the US is a different market and closed for most of us. It's completely irrelevant to me and many more, Sorry, no offense, but I feel like a broken record, how many times do we have to go over this again and again?
Which airlines would that be please? We all know that if you pay low enough you get a shortage of applicants, but can you name an airline in Asia or Europe (UK if you have the passport only) that offers decent salary, working hours and a reasonable promotion path? I would agree there are options if you are 30ish F/O and flexible. But the typical expat pilot in Cathay is older, has a command or is very close to it. A cadet or junior officer job at a "legacy carrier" is out of the question for most. . Not trying to be contrarian, this is my personal first hand experience of the current market. Lifestyle choices are all good and well, the offers I have seen more resemble financial suicide or volunteer admission into labor camps.
Which airlines would that be please? We all know that if you pay low enough you get a shortage of applicants, but can you name an airline in Asia or Europe (UK if you have the passport only) that offers decent salary, working hours and a reasonable promotion path? I would agree there are options if you are 30ish F/O and flexible. But the typical expat pilot in Cathay is older, has a command or is very close to it. A cadet or junior officer job at a "legacy carrier" is out of the question for most. . Not trying to be contrarian, this is my personal first hand experience of the current market. Lifestyle choices are all good and well, the offers I have seen more resemble financial suicide or volunteer admission into labor camps.
Apparently you just want to ignore facts.
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You just literally repeated the same unhelpful statement twice, with all due respect. And it is you who ignores facts. It would be a paycut in the region of 60-70% for a Cx captain, are you really not aware of that? Hard to believe.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 16th Jul 2023 at 10:39.
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They do not hire non-UK citizens for starters. Any experienced 40yr-ish candidate hired as F/O would be a F/O for life even if they would hire you, which they don't. The direct entry positions are at Cityflyer, exactly what I said, they are using sub-brands, with the same restrictions. You also need the license, the type rating and the hours. .
You just literally repeated the same unhelpful statement twice, with all due respect. And it is you who ignores facts. It would be a paycut in the region of 60-70% for a Cx captain, are you really not aware of that? Hard to believe.
You just literally repeated the same unhelpful statement twice, with all due respect. And it is you who ignores facts. It would be a paycut in the region of 60-70% for a Cx captain, are you really not aware of that? Hard to believe.
Your personal eligibility has nothing to do with any of those questions or the responses.
BA is hiring Captains for Euroflyer, not Cityflyer and DEFO is for Heathrow (aka BA Mainline) and Euroflyer, not Cityflyer. Again, you're disregarding facts.
"To be considered for BA Euroflyer at the time of submitting online application – 500 hours or 100 sectors on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT*
To be considered for British Airways at the time of submitted online application – 500 hours or 100 sectors on the A320 or 1500 hours on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT and flown this type in the last 12 months*"
Plus, Joining BA means you have the ability to move within fleets. BA's cabin crew union have just negotiated a pay rise, I assume the same can be expected for flight crew if it hasn't happened yet.
However, there is much more that factors into quality of life than just the number that ends up in your bank account each month.
Take a read of the BA hiring thread. Commands went to those with a year in the company (320 LHR base), yes it's an anomaly but your assertion that you'll be an FO for life is wrong at the moment.....
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When you are done halucinating read the fine print. I can't believe you are trying to sell this bs to colleagues just to get some attention..
Euroflyer is a LOW COST brand, jesus christ. The pay after tax is miserable Stop pretending this is a good job and out of reach for 99% in Cathay anyway. IThis is embarrassing and a waste of time, over and out
- Currently operating in command on A320 in the last 6 months with 3500 total time and 1000 PIC on type
- Current UK issued CAA Flight Crew Licence ATPL (A) or conversion to UK CAA licence initiated.
- Right to work in the UK
Euroflyer is a LOW COST brand, jesus christ. The pay after tax is miserable Stop pretending this is a good job and out of reach for 99% in Cathay anyway. IThis is embarrassing and a waste of time, over and out
Seems that you struggle to admit when you're wrong and are instead trying to make it about something else.
I must've missed your post asking us to help you find a new job.
Which airlines would that be please? We all know that if you pay low enough you get a shortage of applicants, but can you name an airline in Asia or Europe (UK if you have the passport only) that offers decent salary, working hours and a reasonable promotion path? I would agree there are options if you are 30ish F/O and flexible. But the typical expat pilot in Cathay is older, has a command or is very close to it. A cadet or junior officer job at a "legacy carrier" is out of the question for most. . Not trying to be contrarian, this is my personal first hand experience of the current market. Lifestyle choices are all good and well, the offers I have seen more resemble financial suicide or volunteer admission into labor camps.
If you made a lot of money pre-COVID as a CX pilot you have a lot of career choices. This seems to be a pattern in many of the pilots I know or have met who left Cathay. If you didn’t I guess you count pennies when comparing airline packages.
don’t forget Qantas are severely short of pilots too with a large number of CX guys on the hold file awaiting dates still. The exodus hasn’t stopped yet and there are plenty of other options
The Sam Ting Wongs of the world can put as much of a silly, head-in-the-sand spin on it as they want (for whatever reason)
Bottom line is that decent/experienced pilots are in short supply globally and decent airlines recognise the need to attract/pay/retain appropriately
The 👇 horrendous Cathay landing video doing the social media rounds at present is just one byproduct of 5+ years of myopic corporate decision making. Sincerely hope it’s limited to merely a few bad landings.
Bottom line is that decent/experienced pilots are in short supply globally and decent airlines recognise the need to attract/pay/retain appropriately
The 👇 horrendous Cathay landing video doing the social media rounds at present is just one byproduct of 5+ years of myopic corporate decision making. Sincerely hope it’s limited to merely a few bad landings.
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STW won’t admit when he’s wrong. There’s a significant shortage of pilots around the world. As mentioned above, those that made sensible financial decisions have the liberty of choice.
As an aside - if the pay is so poor elsewhere: which way is the flow of traffic?
As an aside - if the pay is so poor elsewhere: which way is the flow of traffic?
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STW has NEVER admitted he’s wrong, but plenty of people have pointed it out to him in the past.
It’s fun to watch him throw his hands up once in a while and tell all of us he is leaving pprune…..again.
This time he lasted a whole two weeks.
Of course it is OUR fault for not realising he is not eligible to go to the USA, or BA, Lufthansa, KLM etc.
so it’s really not fair of us to confront him with THAT particular part of the aviation industry.
In HIS part of the world there is NO pilot shortage and that’s all that matters.
CAN’T YOU ALL GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS ALREADY.
He is REALLY getting tired of repeating himself and his same old argument over and over and over again.
Why can’t you see his superior intellect?
It is quite obvious to himself!
It’s fun to watch him throw his hands up once in a while and tell all of us he is leaving pprune…..again.
This time he lasted a whole two weeks.
Of course it is OUR fault for not realising he is not eligible to go to the USA, or BA, Lufthansa, KLM etc.
so it’s really not fair of us to confront him with THAT particular part of the aviation industry.
In HIS part of the world there is NO pilot shortage and that’s all that matters.
CAN’T YOU ALL GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS ALREADY.
He is REALLY getting tired of repeating himself and his same old argument over and over and over again.
Why can’t you see his superior intellect?
It is quite obvious to himself!