Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Base Closures

Old 14th Jun 2021, 17:43
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 141
Sounds like they haven’t really thought it though…

kind of seems like proper planning is out the window now.

they can’t even seem to fill the freighters at the moment.. nuts with other cargo airlines breaking records.
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Old 14th Jun 2021, 23:55
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 273
Fly747

They joined an airline which has its head office in HKG and offered Temp and Permanent bases in a wide range of countries.
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Old 14th Jun 2021, 23:57
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 273
CXDOG

100% true.

Aussi and Kiwis expected to be back in HKG by end of Sept - even though there is no real work for them. Quarantine at their own expense.
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Old 14th Jun 2021, 23:59
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 273
CXDOG

Same thing they told AOAA and AOA (NZ). And the bastards got away with it.
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Old 15th Jun 2021, 02:11
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Here & there
Posts: 810
If they 'got away with it', why were the Aus-based pilots offered the option of either returning to HK or taking a redundancy, in accordance with the base closure clause of their COS?
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Old 15th Jun 2021, 03:06
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: here
Posts: 158
WTF you talking about.
Redundancy (6 months basic salary) offered to Aus.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 04:56
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 273
The Base Closure clauses I have seen state that officers will be offered another Home Base in the Base Area if there is a position available or a return to HKG (no ifs or buts - a return to HKG and continued employment). Redundancy pay out is not linked to Base Closure at all.

The Base COS redundancy clauses clearly state that in the event of redundancy it will follow LIFO off the Common Redundancy List. The company is not following this.

Most of the guys I have spoken to who are non-PR don't expect to get a work visa. They believe the company waited until a back room agreement was reached with IMMD so that their application for work visas will be declined, CX will claim their hands are tied and 'redundancy' is the only option.

Remember that the Aussies were on zero pay, the kiwis on about 1/2 and the Canadians offered to go onto zero pay. The company is pushing the closures so that they can make senior pilots 'redundant' in violation of the base COS LIFO and to have all pilots on POS18 back in HKG (POS18 would not be a legal contract on the bases as it gives no protection to the employees and isn't really a contract at all as anything of importance is company policy and subject to change without notice, solely at the company's discretion). The company expects most guys to either take the payout or be forced to take the payout due to lack of visa. Mass redundancies in breach of LIFO. The Hong Kong pilots are probably just thank full it isn't them (especially the 777 drivers).

That is what the bastards are getting aware with.

This isn't about survival of the company - they haven't had to draw down on the government support. This is about using covid to force employees on to Asian LCC contracts so the company can compete with the likes of HKA and GBA in the future. It is easier than making decisions to position CX as a premium carrier charging premium prices.

Any pretense of following contracts, treating employees with respect and compassion, being a 'team' and being engaged is completely gone.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 05:33
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 484
Heed him. For that is the best description of what they are up to yet.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 06:17
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Here & there
Posts: 810
controlledrest

That is NOT true in the case of Australia. In addition to the two options you quoted, the base closure clause in the Australian agreement specifically provides the option to take a redundancy in accordance with the redundancy section of the agreement. A base closure is separate to worldwide redundancy, where LIFO would be applicable.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 07:10
  #150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 53
I wouldn't say the 777 drivers are thankful it wasn't them, we're about to get a rude awakening when CX shakes the tree and dumps half of us. Immigration visa issues can only solve a tiny percentage of CX's woes, the rest WILL be "...you have been made redundant" letters to a huge number of us. CX tried, but they failed. They held out as long as they could. Has no one really worked out why they are now suddenly changing their name? come on.. I'll give you a hint, "..the highest bidder is" First we start trimming our subsidiaries, then we close out bases, then we change our name, then we clean out a huge chunk of our non productive workforce, and then.... $$$. Yes this does come a lot from Mainland, but maybe they are a bit more financially savvy than us down here in CX dream land and have had enough.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 07:29
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 273
Do you think the company have the balls to bin PRs and HKG Passport holders too, or will they be forced to bin all work visa crew first?
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 07:49
  #152 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 202
If they were smart they would go through performance records and any warning letters first but I cannot see the immigration department allowing that. It’ll be anyone that has no real ties to Hk to go first. Then the PR, before the HK passport holders then when it is down the the skeletal frame of its former self will the Han Chinese Locals be removed.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 10:04
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 53
They will bin anyone who doesn't need to be there, it's simple cost cutting. First all the non PR's, then along with that all the people who have performance issues / warning letters on their name, then so on down the line, so no one is safe and sitting comfy. The airline will be left with their own "best of the best" hand picked guy and girls. When the airline is at the right size, fleet and staff then time for the hammer $$$ but anything CX does is at the speed of a snail with a flat tyre.
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Old 16th Jun 2021, 10:44
  #154 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 202
You mean best of the snivelling little children that get their brown noses into the good books by "helping" the higher ups?
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Old 17th Jun 2021, 08:25
  #155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 106
Being a team should be a two way process between pilots and management. The continuous whinging of pilots on this forum, through good times and bad indicates that many pilots have not been proper team members..
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Old 17th Jun 2021, 10:08
  #156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 124
if you don’t want to listen to whinging pilots don’t come to PPRuNe.
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Old 17th Jun 2021, 10:42
  #157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 194
nor sit on a crew bus or cockpit
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2021, 11:11
  #158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: cassiopea
Posts: 218
Enjoy the HK show. I am happily done with this place.
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Old 17th Jun 2021, 12:20
  #159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 318
Have to say, CX is sadly a miserable airline, even airlines that pay considerably less pre and post POS18 have happier crew front and back. Ask the DEFOs who are generally surprised by the toxic environment. A Swire born legacy?
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Old 17th Jun 2021, 13:00
  #160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 685
Team ??

Bueno Hombre

Only two teams at CX. The one that drops the bar of soap in the shower and the one that is forced to pick it up.. You decide which is which.
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