Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Base Closures

Old 4th May 2021, 03:06
  #61 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Matrix
Posts: 13
Clog, If the 777 fleet is dead why is CX wasting money for storage fees, preventive maintenance and insurance for their 777s parked in the desert? Why are they waiting to sell the entire lot? Those airframes have less value with everyday that goes by. Why hasn't CX sold off the all 777 sims? Maybe your inside source can answer these questions. I have already used my joker so I cant go Airbus. I guess I'm completely screwed.
buster57 is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 03:07
  #62 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 2
Last month of salary for most of the 777 guys. Start packing and head out fellas
pilot20 is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 03:56
  #63 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: In a suitcase
Posts: 35
I'm trying to imply that Flying Clog and some others are being disingenuous. Encouraging others to leave while they themselves have no intention to go anywhere.
Pistolpete47 is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 05:11
  #64 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 230
The market for the 777 is saturated. Even if they wanted to sell it they would have no buyers. Maybe cheaper to put in storage and hope that it either comes back or can be flogged off later on. Just look at the unmentionable in the sand pit. Can't even flog off a 777 yet it's all painted up in white and good to go.
Rie is offline  
Old 4th May 2021, 05:20
  #65 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Moonbase A
Posts: 26
@ Flying clog,
EU/NAM based freighter crews where doing 28 days TCR, sitting in quarantine except in ANC. So they were not sitting in their back yard, actually they were in your backyard (CX city) while you sat in Tung Chung drinking your GT.
Regardless of Base or Race I respect all the work done by my fellow Cx crew on any type.
We are all in this together, and I hate to see bases and good crew go. but it has nothing to do with skill it seems political.
sjimmy is offline  
Old 12th May 2021, 15:36
  #66 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL340
Posts: 50
So, as I said... FRA is to be closed. I am so sorry to hear this, but it was predictable, non the less painful.
LHR will stay open for now until the numbers are gathered. Contracts to be revised with massive errosion of terms in line with COS18 (UK style)
I gather not many have PR in HKG at least not many F/O's, and that's exactly what CX are banking on, that most will accept the new terms.
FlyingNun is offline  
Old 12th May 2021, 16:47
  #67 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 101
Rod Eddington (CEO a million years ago) told me at a "meet and greet" back in 1993: ...."welcome to CX, but be aware that there are big changes coming and the airline is going to remain competitive in the market".... Well, he wasn't kidding! It truly grieves me to see how low they have brought the career value, to what was once the best airline in the world to work for. I'm very sorry for the base pilots and their predicament.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 12th May 2021, 20:07
  #68 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Utopia
Posts: 693

Gone are the days. Swire will pull out soon enough - a major Chinese airline will take over the business and Hong Kong will be just another hub. It´s the sad fact. Not much left to fight for, unless you´re a local. Looking back at the past two decades, anyone surprised and unable to see this coming - must be beyond naive. Best of luck with the future decision - please do yourselves the favor of making a plan. For the local Hong Kong pilots and crew - I wish you the best of luck with what once was a legacy airline carrier.
Klimax is offline  
Old 12th May 2021, 22:27
  #69 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,294
The above scenario is perfectly plausible and similar to one which I put forward earlier on a different thread, except I thought HKG would get divided amongst the big 3 from the mainland with the city as a virtual hub to keep costs down. Staff and aircraft maintenance at lower mainland rates, all the profits go to China and it’s a big stamp of authority on the city.

With CX having just raised US$650 million there is the possibility that the airline will survive which I also posted on another thread.

Investors won’t put up money like this to watch it go up in smoke, there has to be a survival plan on the table. Reducing cash burn would be top priority followed by restructuring into something which can make money post COVID.

Expect to see a downsizing of staff, fleet and network. More money would follow if there was light at the end of the tunnel and returns would be assured but at the moment this investment is speculative.

The EK style premium long haul hub model is out for the foreseeable future. Last September SQ had layoffs and decided on a different fleet mix going forward, with the B737, B787 and A350 being the primary types. Most B777s were grounded, there are orders for new ones but arriving in 2025/6, and 1/3 of the A380 fleet being retired.

CX and SQ are reasonably similar, so following Singapore’s example would be likely.
krismiler is offline  
Old 13th May 2021, 07:41
  #70 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Here & there
Posts: 815
Wasn't it turned off years ago?
BuzzBox is offline  
Old 13th May 2021, 08:07
  #71 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 21
why would they only keep captains? That’s the most expensive solution. Seniority is a pre-Covid pipedream and the lack of fight from the union over the years means the company can swipe the scythe whenever and to whoever.

keep all the local captains and FOs. Fill in the gaps with C-scalers and company men/women. Find a job for the Instagram kings and queens. Bye bye B-scalers.
SandwichOfficer is offline  
Old 13th May 2021, 08:35
  #72 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 168
keep the captains, perhaps because they can fill any role for now and when the recovery comes. It takes ages to upgrade someone who is a so or fo.
not the cheapest in The short term but best situated for a quick recovery.
Oasis is offline  
Old 13th May 2021, 08:40
  #73 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
not the cheapest in The short term
So that won’t be happening...
main_dog is offline  
Old 13th May 2021, 08:46
  #74 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 129
Downsizing steps

1 - VSS
2 - Close the bases (redundancies for those unable/unwilling to return to hk)
3 - no work permit renewals (more redundancies)
4 - involuntary redundancies of work permit holders
5 - involuntary redundancies of those holding PR/citizenship
i) bad apples?
ii) fleet specific?
iii) age? (keep the younger ones)

Question is how far down the list does it go? Hopefully no more than we have gone already ie 2 anything more would just be unimaginable.
LLLQNH is offline  
Old 13th May 2021, 08:51
  #75 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 168

logic may be out of the window on this one, but not being able to crew a full 777 because you don't have a captain may be more expensive than keeping captains on the payroll instead of lower ranks.
Oasis is offline  
Old 13th May 2021, 09:26
  #76 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 321
CN1 & FO1 plus a suitable amount of trainers is all they need. Keeping the training machine ticking along slowly while a cost will keep things relatively “(new) normal” and ready to ramp up as time passes. Why have a CN3 or 4 when you have CN4/3 trainers.
Avinthenews is offline  
Old 13th May 2021, 10:00
  #77 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,294
A restructure would likely involve new contracts for the remaining staff on a "take it or leave it basis". Preference given to locals then PR holders followed by foreigners. Baby buses for the short range routes, A330 for the medium and a few A350s for the long haul. B777s largely remain grounded until demand picks up again, with a few kept flying to keep the operation current.

Once things pick up again, crewing requirements get reassessed and an agency is used to employ crew on fixed term contracts. Possibly one of the Chinese ones which provided pilots to the mainland airlines during the boom, or there may even be a Rishworth contract for the new entity. Names are checked against a black list before employment.
krismiler is offline  
Old 13th May 2021, 15:43
  #78 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2
Isn’t on new contract when Captain do FO job will get FO pay?
universe115 is offline  
Old 13th May 2021, 17:58
  #79 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 358
Quite a few airlines ensure all their captains are RHS checked (very simple/short process) and so makes scheduling/rostering and standbys (especially last minute call outs) very easy and productive. I guess (and its only that) it is probably very efficient/cost effective in the longer term.
Starbear is offline  
Old 13th May 2021, 22:23
  #80 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,294
RHS check can have different levels, at the most basic it involves a couple of circuits flown in the F/Os chair which allows a Captain to sit on the right but as pilot monitoring only, no take offs or landings. A useful tool for rostering if there is a shortage of copilots.

Dual seat approval as PF is normally for instructors but a suitable training program could probably be approved.
krismiler is offline  

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