Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

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Old 8th Aug 2021, 11:43
  #221 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 251
Seniority is good for some, bad for others. Rarely First or Second Officers complain, but usually senior Captains do ....
I wonder if the chat landscape has changed for some of the people who were pro seniority lists?
I can assure you that the senior Captains at Delta, United, American, Air Canada, KLM, Lufthansa. Air France, Quantas, and so on, whom are sitting on top of the salary scale, avoided layoffs, are exactly on the equipment they bid for and fly exactly the roster they bid for aren't complaining about seniority.
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Old 8th Aug 2021, 12:10
  #222 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 0
Good point. One is usually con or pro seniority depending on the personal circumstances..

Clog, the moment you find out the real salary as driver of whatever, you will pack your bags. But not to leave. Welcome to Hong Kong! 😂

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 8th Aug 2021 at 19:32.
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Old 8th Aug 2021, 18:26
  #223 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 524
Whilst Clog is way off the mark on the salaries that HGV drivers can command, and indeed understates the appalling way that they are treated ( not allowed to use washing nor toilet facilities in any number of places, ablutions in layby’s etc etc) here In Blighty, he does have a point. Most 777 drivers wouldn’t have given the average 747 pilot the steam of their proverbial back in the day, let alone acknowledge them, yet are now breaking their necks to get on to what is the Promised fleet.
And his writing style is not rabid enough for the wail.
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Old 8th Aug 2021, 20:35
  #224 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 167
controlledrest

Why do the best jobs with the least amount of retention (UPS/FEDEX/KLM/Air France/Lufthansa/South West/United) etc all have seniority? and all the ones like Travel Service, Wizzair don’t?

when CX was good they had a seniority system. Now that CX is just another bottom feeder, go figure!
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Old 8th Aug 2021, 20:44
  #225 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 27
Without seniority all positions can be replaced by cheaper labour. Particularly in an industry where accountants do not understand and can’t quantify the value experience brings to their bottom line. Just like the clown running CX.
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Old 8th Aug 2021, 23:12
  #226 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: hong kong
Posts: 41
“It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage than a new system.”

- Niccolo` Machiavelli.

Cathay has simply moved from a seniority system to a superiority system. The new system is just based on who you know, not what you know, and why not? Nothing new.
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Old 8th Aug 2021, 23:52
  #227 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,949
SaulGoodman

As an outsider, it's a little flabbergasting that some Cathay pilots would bemoan seniority after years of being protected by it. Have these pilots ever seen the industry and what's out there beyond the status of a legacy carrier? Competing with scycophants-cronyism, nepotism and even corruption rife. Yes, you see a bit of all this in a seniority based airline, though it is just nowhere near as grubby.

So, after forging a career at CX within a seniority based system, now its all gone and the job is pretty average, some now want an open market for flying jobs? Seems a little entitled to me.
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Old 9th Aug 2021, 02:05
  #228 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 316
smog liver

Without seniority all workers can take their experience and qualifications to another employer who is offering a better package. I have friends in IT, law and accounting. They are frequently poached by other companies offering better deals. With seniority only corporate or contract jobs might offer a better package, other airlines can only offer entry level packages, so year after year we take the pineapple and stay where we are, getting more and more pissed off.
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Old 9th Aug 2021, 02:36
  #229 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Hk
Posts: 57
Flying Clog

96 grand a year for a truckie in the U.K.!

hahaha you’re an idiot.
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Old 9th Aug 2021, 02:58
  #230 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
Seniority is objective, meritocracy is subjective.
Meritocracy only benefits workers when they can trust the people making the subjective decisions.
There's a reason why airline managers want a meritocracy.
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Old 9th Aug 2021, 05:49
  #231 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 167
controlledrest

feel free to apply to Wizzair if you don’t like seniority. Plenty of airlines don’t have it. So everyone wins
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Old 9th Aug 2021, 10:46
  #232 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 524
Only 20 years ?
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Old 9th Aug 2021, 11:51
  #233 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Inner Funk
Posts: 3
Try 30 years.
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Old 9th Aug 2021, 13:19
  #234 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 524
Indeed. 20 year sprogs !
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Old 9th Aug 2021, 23:22
  #235 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 123
Dingleberry Handpump

exactly. My mate is a class 1 HGV driver and I can defiantly state he does not earn that sort of wonga. More like £30K
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Old 10th Aug 2021, 06:06
  #236 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 524
Agreed. Even tanker drivers ( and despite whichever brand of fuel it says on the side of the tin it’s invariably the same forwarder you’re working for ) are making just above that. Factor in the quite appalling way that they are treated here ( compared with their French, German and Polish counterparts ) and it’s a tough gig.
Milk tanker; 0300 starts. Drive to the pick up in dark. Dice with death with tractors capable of 60 mph down country lanes or the Yummy mummies doing the school run In their 4 x 4’s glued to their phones or sat nav and refusing to back up. And time pressure to get the product to the processor before it spoils.
If anyone is making 80k a year doing this please let me know who. I know a few people who’ll have their CV’s in pronto.
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Old 10th Aug 2021, 11:54
  #237 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
Posts: 65
Sounds a lot less taxing than aviation these days. Where do I sign?
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Old 10th Aug 2021, 12:56
  #238 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 524
I can assure you it’s hard graft. And you ain’t getting even close to Pos 20 pay for it.
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Old 10th Aug 2021, 13:54
  #239 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Hk
Posts: 57
I thought you’d signed for your £96,000 trucking job already? Hahaha clown
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Old 8th Sep 2021, 05:55
  #240 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 316
Axe has dropped. UK to close. They got the same letter as NZ and Aus with a little bit of cut and paste. USA next. At least the yanks have jobs to go to.

Time is running out on visas for those already on the chopped bases. Company and immigration dragging their feet.
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