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COS 99 extensions- seniority is over

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

COS 99 extensions- seniority is over

Old 22nd Jul 2019, 22:31
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 549
Plot

Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
I think it is all part of a cunning and insidious plot. By offering less and less money to new applicants, POS 18 to RA 55, plus unpaid leave for all, they want us to think there is no pilot shortage.

Then, when eventually all breaks down and nobody saw it coming, they will laugh last.
What, you mean that plot that started in 1994 !!! Anybody that didn't see it coming had their FU**ING eyes wide shut just like winner STW does today. By the time he finishes he'll be living offshore in Davao on POS 25 still trying to save up for that 850 sq/ft North facing public flat for his wife and child...

#AOA is 100% useless

CX is toast..

#CXit


Flex88 is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2019, 13:27
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 129
Originally Posted by TurningFinalRWY36 View Post
Guys on bases especially in Europe will not report it. They are too afraid Cathay will just shut the base like they did in Paris Manchester etc
Can’t speak for Europe but this is completely false with regard to NAM — who fairly actively use the laws to achieve a decent contract and are willing to enforce it.

The decision to close—or expand for that matter— the bases or not really has nothing to do with this. For now they are tokens of sorts and a kind of contingency plan. Designed to retain enough people in HKG with the illusion of being able to go elsewhere while their replacements are spun up. And an ‘out’ in case staffing the airline from HKG doesn’t work. They will attempt to attract enough people on POS 18 to staff the the airline from there and if it works close the bases in time.

Right now they are experimenting to find the feasibility of staffing the airline on POS 18 from HKG and how to juggle assets to make that happen. While opening up enough token slots to retain folks. It may or may not work and that is what will decide the future of Basing’s.
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2019, 20:26
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Posts: 1,936
Slasher Asher got it in 1. Bases were only reopened because they had to. And only at drip feed, carrot dangling levels. Once POS18 is entrenched, bases will be closed.
Dan Buster is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2019, 09:04
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
Pickup...I take it you are on 55 ? As for your "there ain't that many leaving" comment, I guess that's the reason i'm on overtime every month, I keep getting called out as relief when on reserve, and my emails to and from colleagues that have all left in the past 24 months or so are just a figment of my imagination. And yes, as Cxerocst says above, what unpaid leave/seats/fleets??
Aside from the obvious that every RA55 guy apart from a handful are begging/abusing the company about going RA65, and the fact that the seniority list shows a painfully small number leaving.......Are you suggesting the company is making up fake names to put on the seniority list to reduce the apparent turnover?
I do wonder if abusing the crap out of the company on social media will pay dividends when the first extension interview rolls around and there are say 30 RA55 guys going for 7 slots.
Own goal springs to mind.
Pickuptruck is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2019, 17:01
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
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Originally Posted by Pickuptruck View Post
I do wonder if abusing the crap out of the company on social media will pay dividends when the first extension interview rolls around and there are say 30 RA55 guys going for 7 slots.
Own goal springs to mind.
Right, but it's ok for Flight Crew to continually bend over and let inept "leaders" abuse the crap out of us ??

#Delirious

#CXit.
Flex88 is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2019, 01:59
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 60
Find an SO that's been here for about 2 years and ask them how many seniority numbers they've moved in that time. Last one I spoke to had moved up at a rate indicating about 5% attrition over 18 months.
rhoshamboe is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2019, 04:12
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Sure, i'll run that by the 6 Canadian FO's all joining Air Canada next week (787 in Vancouver or Toronto).....and the many more currently in the pipeline awaiting course dates.
Apple Tree Yard is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2019, 04:15
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
Posts: 474
Btw, 5% over 18 months....?, yet the time to upgrade is now starting to stretch out to between 5 and 6 years. You see the problem with your statement don't you?
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 05:09
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
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30 RA55 guys going for 7 slots. Own goal springs to mind.
30 RA55 guys going for 7 COS18 slots. THAT'S the own goal.
Dan Buster is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2019, 09:33
  #150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 60
Sorry. Meant to say 5% per annum. A fairly hefty rate for any airline. Would suggest that time to command blow out is due lack of training resources (until now) and the company shrinking the airline to avoid having to actually deal.
rhoshamboe is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2019, 17:33
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 709
With Dragon Air, HK Express and HK Airlines, believe me, CX is never going to grow again. I have it on good authority that indeed that is the plan going forward. Expand the lower cost companies, and basically keep CX static. There is no career left at CX. It's toast.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2019, 18:49
  #152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 549
Done Deal !!

Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
With Dragon Air, HK Express and HK Airlines, believe me, CX is never going to grow again. I have it on good authority that indeed that is the plan going forward. Expand the lower cost companies, and basically keep CX static. There is no career left at CX. It's toast.
Exactly MM.
All those SO's or DEFO's joined within the last few years your history is already written ! Plus it's not hard to see the progression chart wrote large on the wall 6 > 8 years SO before upgrade then, FO HK Express etc etc....

Surprise,THIS is how CX leadership works !!

Enjoy ;-)

#CXit
Flex88 is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2019, 04:32
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 295
CX progression stagnates, company offers a deal to integrate the 4 seniority lists to provide the only avenue for promotion in the junior ranks, conveniently this will be packaged with the RA65 for existing B scalers. A win/win/win perhaps?
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2019, 23:22
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by Farman Biplane View Post
CX progression stagnates, company offers a deal to integrate the 4 seniority lists to provide the only avenue for promotion in the junior ranks, conveniently this will be packaged with the RA65 for existing B scalers. A win/win/win perhaps?
Nope.

GMA has already state company policy regarding RA65, why we all keep bleating on about rumours of something different is beyond me.

Those who thought they’d outsmart the company, take the bpp cash and the extra J class FOC and then slot into COS08 are waking up to the fact it ain’t happening. No. Chance. In. Hell.

Back in 2008 the cry was “we’re Cathay pilots, how dare they let us leave at 55, they’ll be begging us to stay and on our terms”

How things have changed.
Pickuptruck is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2019, 01:35
  #155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the road
Posts: 151
GMA has already state company policy regarding RA65
That would be the one they made up last month, ink still wet. Let's see if this version lasts until the next Swire posting cycle or if economic reality forces another change to that rule of law.

30 RA65s currently going per year for the next 3 to 4 and an increase after that. RA55 increasing as of now with estimates of 4 to 500 on that list over the next 10 years, peak in 2 years from now with the bulge of captains in their early 50s. No chance in hell? Parked aircraft affect short term bonuses.
mr did is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2019, 04:35
  #156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 49
Posts: 214
Did you hear the people volunteering to be forced into training were automatically given top cover courtesy of the company plus instant cos 08 RA65 benefits.
RAT Management is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2019, 05:33
  #157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
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Originally Posted by RAT Management View Post
Did you hear the people volunteering to be forced into training were automatically given top cover courtesy of the company plus instant cos 08 RA65 benefits.
All true. And a masterful stroke too...sadly. Frankly surprised they didn’t offer it sooner.
Equally if the AOA fails to negotiate the insurance top up with whatever insurer they can find at next years’ renewal ( looking increasingly dodgy it has to be said ) watch membership decline. Rapidly.
Globocnik is online now  
Old 29th Jul 2019, 05:41
  #158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: wherever I go, there I am.
Posts: 1,936
Did you hear the people volunteering to be forced into training were automatically given top cover courtesy of the company plus instant cos 08 RA65 benefits.
Be interesting to see how this holds up in a discrimination court case.
Dan Buster is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2019, 06:33
  #159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 235
What’s discriminatory about it. ? It could be construed as a benefit in kind. In much the same way that current trainers get preferential leave, or the test pilots essentially write their own rosters and equally have more leave and have it when they want it.
Note that I am neither condoning it nor benefiting from it.

Last edited by Globocnik; 29th Jul 2019 at 08:57.
Globocnik is online now  
Old 30th Jul 2019, 00:21
  #160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: wherever I go, there I am.
Posts: 1,936
Pretty sure giving RA65 to a very select group of employees would be seen as discriminatory in a Court of Law in this day in age. In CX's own words;

Move Beyond...Age.
Unless I misread it. Perhaps they meant;
Move Beyond...Age...but only for TB Breakers!

Precedent would be the key. Have new Trainers always been given preferential Retirement Age treatment?

I vaguely see your point with the TopCover. Still not right though, just further divide and conquer tactics. Although, in my mind, still straying very close into the discrimination realm.
Dan Buster is offline  

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