Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Fragrant Harbour
Reload this Page >

COS 99 extensions- seniority is over

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

COS 99 extensions- seniority is over

Old 27th Jul 2019, 04:12
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
Posts: 521
Sure, i'll run that by the 6 Canadian FO's all joining Air Canada next week (787 in Vancouver or Toronto).....and the many more currently in the pipeline awaiting course dates.
Apple Tree Yard is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2019, 04:15
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
Posts: 521
Btw, 5% over 18 months....?, yet the time to upgrade is now starting to stretch out to between 5 and 6 years. You see the problem with your statement don't you?
Apple Tree Yard is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2019, 09:33
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 70
Sorry. Meant to say 5% per annum. A fairly hefty rate for any airline. Would suggest that time to command blow out is due lack of training resources (until now) and the company shrinking the airline to avoid having to actually deal.
rhoshamboe is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2019, 17:33
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 126
With Dragon Air, HK Express and HK Airlines, believe me, CX is never going to grow again. I have it on good authority that indeed that is the plan going forward. Expand the lower cost companies, and basically keep CX static. There is no career left at CX. It's toast.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2019, 18:49
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 725
Done Deal !!

Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
With Dragon Air, HK Express and HK Airlines, believe me, CX is never going to grow again. I have it on good authority that indeed that is the plan going forward. Expand the lower cost companies, and basically keep CX static. There is no career left at CX. It's toast.
Exactly MM.
All those SO's or DEFO's joined within the last few years your history is already written ! Plus it's not hard to see the progression chart wrote large on the wall 6 > 8 years SO before upgrade then, FO HK Express etc etc....

Surprise,THIS is how CX leadership works !!

Enjoy ;-)

#CXit
Flex88 is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2019, 04:32
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 372
CX progression stagnates, company offers a deal to integrate the 4 seniority lists to provide the only avenue for promotion in the junior ranks, conveniently this will be packaged with the RA65 for existing B scalers. A win/win/win perhaps?
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2019, 23:22
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by Farman Biplane View Post
CX progression stagnates, company offers a deal to integrate the 4 seniority lists to provide the only avenue for promotion in the junior ranks, conveniently this will be packaged with the RA65 for existing B scalers. A win/win/win perhaps?
Nope.

GMA has already state company policy regarding RA65, why we all keep bleating on about rumours of something different is beyond me.

Those who thought they’d outsmart the company, take the bpp cash and the extra J class FOC and then slot into COS08 are waking up to the fact it ain’t happening. No. Chance. In. Hell.

Back in 2008 the cry was “we’re Cathay pilots, how dare they let us leave at 55, they’ll be begging us to stay and on our terms”

How things have changed.
Pickuptruck is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2019, 01:35
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the road
Posts: 159
GMA has already state company policy regarding RA65
That would be the one they made up last month, ink still wet. Let's see if this version lasts until the next Swire posting cycle or if economic reality forces another change to that rule of law.

30 RA65s currently going per year for the next 3 to 4 and an increase after that. RA55 increasing as of now with estimates of 4 to 500 on that list over the next 10 years, peak in 2 years from now with the bulge of captains in their early 50s. No chance in hell? Parked aircraft affect short term bonuses.
mr did is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2019, 04:35
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 52
Posts: 240
Did you hear the people volunteering to be forced into training were automatically given top cover courtesy of the company plus instant cos 08 RA65 benefits.
RAT Management is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2019, 05:33
  #150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 672
Originally Posted by RAT Management View Post
Did you hear the people volunteering to be forced into training were automatically given top cover courtesy of the company plus instant cos 08 RA65 benefits.
All true. And a masterful stroke too...sadly. Frankly surprised they didn’t offer it sooner.
Equally if the AOA fails to negotiate the insurance top up with whatever insurer they can find at next years’ renewal ( looking increasingly dodgy it has to be said ) watch membership decline. Rapidly.
MENELAUS is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2019, 06:33
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 672
What’s discriminatory about it. ? It could be construed as a benefit in kind. In much the same way that current trainers get preferential leave, or the test pilots essentially write their own rosters and equally have more leave and have it when they want it.
Note that I am neither condoning it nor benefiting from it.

Last edited by MENELAUS; 29th Jul 2019 at 08:57.
MENELAUS is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2019, 04:36
  #152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 52
Posts: 240
Originally Posted by Dan Buster View Post
Pretty sure giving RA65 to a very select group of employees would be seen as discriminatory in a Court of Law in this day in age. In CX's own words;

Move Beyond...Age.
Unless I misread it. Perhaps they meant;
Move Beyond...Age...but only for TB Breakers!

Precedent would be the key. Have new Trainers always been given preferential Retirement Age treatment?

I vaguely see your point with the TopCover. Still not right though, just further divide and conquer tactics. Although, in my mind, still straying very close into the discrimination realm.
Who is going to challenge this legally? You would run out of money and need retirement age 75 by the time the case is finished!

The extended retirement age for trainers precedence had been set before. Any challenge won't stand up. It's a seperate contact open to you as well if you want to jump in.
RAT Management is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 02:46
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by Dan Buster View Post


Yeah, no thanks. I'll wait until the Union sanctioned TB ban voted in by thousands of my colleagues is officially over.
I've got morals and I respect my co-workers.
You’ll be waiting a very very very long time. RF and his lackeys set it up so it can’t be voted out.
Pickuptruck is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 07:45
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 325
Well we all know who they are. They will have some lonely layovers and a lonely retirement as well. They made their choice
TurningFinalRWY36 is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2019, 22:58
  #155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by Dan Buster View Post
G


Well, so be it. I've managed this long without having 'Training Captain' on my business card. And my morals and integrity remain intact. And I can look myself in the mirror as I did not throw my colleagues and friends under the bus for my own personal gain.
but on the other hand those of us on the 744 endure the worst of the CC/TB while those on the 777 get down route disruption and roster uncertainty once in a blue moon. Not to mention years of trying to get off the 747 fleet as seniority should allow. Judging by the pitiful payrise and flood of new trainers looking at yourself in the mirror with a smile is all any of us will achieve under CC/TB.

As usual, one pilot group gets f*cked while another beat their chest about how hard they’ve got it. Any surprise those on the 777 were championing the cause.

Bravo.


Pickuptruck is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2019, 01:01
  #156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Australia
Posts: 3
Well things can always get worse. Those that have been working for CX for more than a decade probably know what is coming:

1. Hong Kong, China and possibly entire world economy slowing and in recession by Q4 2019 or Q1 2020.
2. CX forward bookings crater and management begins to panic about looming losses.
3. Aircraft deliveries deferred and accelerated return of aircraft as leases expire.
4. This equals too many pilots and staff in general.
5. LWOP 2019/2020.

And how many of those 400/500 COS99 Pilots, many of whom are Captains, are going to "volunteer" for LWOP unless their retirement age is extended to 65 on full benefits? Particularly as they watch the value of their PFunds and property sink with retirement looming in less than 10 years.
rtrd is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2019, 13:30
  #157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by rtrd View Post
Well things can always get worse. Those that have been working for CX for more than a decade probably know what is coming:

1. Hong Kong, China and possibly entire world economy slowing and in recession by Q4 2019 or Q1 2020.
2. CX forward bookings crater and management begins to panic about looming losses.
3. Aircraft deliveries deferred and accelerated return of aircraft as leases expire.
4. This equals too many pilots and staff in general.
5. LWOP 2019/2020.

And how many of those 400/500 COS99 Pilots, many of whom are Captains, are going to "volunteer" for LWOP unless their retirement age is extended to 65 on full benefits? Particularly as they watch the value of their PFunds and property sink with retirement looming in less than 10 years.
If the industry is is the dumps there will be nowhere else to go when you hit 55. They’re already fighting over a few slots on COS18. Hundreds will be looking just to hold their seniority and got to 65 on COS18.
Pretend that’s not the case if you like.
Pickuptruck is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2019, 14:34
  #158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 143
Only in CX would you have a bunch of guys fighting over a vastly inferior contract just to hang around the place. You are all pathetic losers. How do you look yourselves in the mirror you spineless cowards?

Get a life.
Dilbert68 is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2019, 04:22
  #159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 891
Dilbert, I hope you feel better now that you've had the opportunity to vent. Take the rest of the day off....
Air Profit is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2019, 08:51
  #160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 242
Dan,

"Pretty sure giving RA65 to a very select group of employees would be seen as discriminatory in a Court of Law in this day in age."

RA 65 wasn't 'given' to anybody! We were all offered it and some, shortsightedly, chose not to take it. Case closed.
Max Reheat is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.