PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Fragrant Harbour (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour-19/)
-   -   COS 99 extensions- seniority is over (https://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/622407-cos-99-extensions-seniority-over.html)

Convair Coronado 11th Jun 2019 05:38

COS 99 extensions- seniority is over
 
CX seniority has officially ended with 4 extensions keeping their seniority, & thatís only to kick off.
Cool ! , now we can all bid for what we want and commercial requirements or who gets there first decides who gets what.
Itís the Donald Trump system now. Anything goes and anythings up for grabs- dog eat dog. Personal deals rule ok .
Pure and simple chaos while the master rubs his hands.

At least now any doubt is removed and we know how it really works.

ACMS 11th Jun 2019 08:59

Ummmmmm, plenty of guys 15 to 20 years ago were extended past their 55th birthday ( when we were all on 55 retirement age ) on the frighter fleet, kept their seniority for staff travel etc. plenty of us were mighty annoyed to.........Some stayed 5 years.....or more until RA 65 popped along.......then they stayed some more.......

This ainít new

Night Watch 11th Jun 2019 09:47

Hey sorry.... but not sure what planet you are on? But seniority is from DOJ and not dependent on what contract you are on. Having said that.... I'm on COS99 and I very much doubt they will allow, even if i wanted to, to extend past that.

Dilbert68 11th Jun 2019 11:18

There are current COS 99 pilots extending on COS 18, it is happening right now.

They are accepting a massive pay cut and greatly inferior conditions just to hang around. I just can't understand these people. Thanks for letting the company know that our pay and beneifts are still too high, you pathetic twats will probably work for free.

You are all lepers, why don't you go make friends with all the new TC's. You are both cut from the same cloth.

Convair Coronado 11th Jun 2019 11:29


Originally Posted by ACMS (Post 10491056)
Ummmmmm, plenty of guys 15 to 20 years ago were extended past their 55th birthday ( when we were all on 55 retirement age ) on the frighter fleet, kept their seniority for staff travel etc. plenty of us were mighty annoyed to.........Some stayed 5 years.....or more until RA 65 popped along.......then they stayed some more.......

This ainít new

This is new.
This time they keep all their seniority

Convair Coronado 11th Jun 2019 11:35

All that matters is they are on COS beyond their contractually agreed retirement age and retaining full seniority.
This must be a first in the airline industry
Fair play to CX management for sneaking this one in it certainly seems to have gone unnoticed so far anyway.[/left]

Air Profit 11th Jun 2019 13:35

I understand your anger and frustration, but ultimately it is only yet more evidence that the career prospects at CX are effectively over. If you want a "flying job", then there is one here, but it won't represent anything that normally constitutes a "career". CX will always find ways to undermine and devalue your job conditions. That applies now, and it will apply 25 years from now. It is the institutional psychosis that permeates our management. The only real option is to attempt to find employment with an airline based in a country that has proper labour laws, a recognised labour/management negotiating protocol and a place that you won't find (insert name of any third world country you can imagine) them hiring people that are happy to work appalling hours for far less than you would accept. Needless to say, CX can only be considered as a place to get the hell away from.

Flex88 11th Jun 2019 14:46

Extended
 

Originally Posted by ACMS (Post 10491056)
Ummmmmm, plenty of guys 15 to 20 years ago were extended past their 55th birthday ( when we were all on 55 retirement age ) on the frighter fleet, kept their seniority for staff travel etc. plenty of us were mighty annoyed to.........Some stayed 5 years.....or more until RA 65 popped along.......then they stayed some more.......

This ain’t new


Ya, check out the SSI's ("senior" sim instructors) - some near 75 years old...... NO LIFE, NO MORALS... Stealing "check" positions from those who "in seniority" should get them and all that for way < than 50 % of the salary.. Seniority is a joke like most every COS at CX.

Flex88 11th Jun 2019 14:50

Seniority
 

Originally Posted by Convair Coronado (Post 10490935)
CX seniority has officially ended with 4 extensions keeping their seniority, & thatís only to kick off.
Cool ! , now we can all bid for what we want and commercial requirements or who gets there first decides who gets what.
Itís the Donald Trump system now. Anything goes and anythings up for grabs- dog eat dog. Personal deals rule ok .
Pure and simple chaos while the master rubs his hands.

At least now any doubt is removed and we know how it really works.


Sorry pal, ended a long time ago. That along with a merit based promotion system... Take a look around !!!

#CXit

Air Profit 11th Jun 2019 15:03

The sad but defining truth: ask anyone, and if they were honest, would reply that they wished they had picked a different airline to establish a career at. Every single one of us.

cxorcist 11th Jun 2019 15:15


Originally Posted by Air Profit (Post 10491315)
The sad but defining truth: ask anyone, and if they were honest, would reply that they wished they had picked a different airline to establish a career at. Every single one of us.

100% true. I say this almost everyday to someone. Chalk it up to the old adage, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. That was definitely the case at CX. Now it doesnít even look good, it just rotten all the way through. The core has rotted its way all the way to the surface, and now they are trying wallpaper over the rot (black mold) with Move Beyond posters and ďwokeĒ politically correct capitalism. Pathetic!

Slasher1 11th Jun 2019 18:12


Originally Posted by Air Profit (Post 10491315)
The sad but defining truth: ask anyone, and if they were honest, would reply that they wished they had picked a different airline to establish a career at. Every single one of us.

I donít know that any journey in life is truly a mistake if you get something out of it and learn something from it. Or that some joining when they did ó with the information they had at the time ó would have viewed it as a bad decision based on the information they had at the time.

But things changed. Boy DID they change. Like cancer, it could have happened to anyone (or any carrier) but it happened to us. One of those nasty turns of life. Most prudent have by now bolted, are in the process of bolting, or are kinda retired-on-active-duty as it were.

Now for the self-deluding idiots who might consider coming onboard at present ó given all that has happened and been well documented ó well Iíve got nothing but scorn and contempt.

Exiled Aviator 12th Jun 2019 00:39

Extensions beyond 55 in the past have resulted in frozen seniority and/or being moved onto freighter terms and even being placed at the bottom of the list. To point out the obvious, extending and maintaining seniority affects EVERYONE!! From career progression, career earnings with delayed upgrades stretching on years to being disadvantaged when it comes to type transfers, base slots, roster requests and leave allocation.

Time to WAKE UP and make some noise, general apathy which seems to have manifested itself is not going to help. Express your dissatisfaction to the company and the AOA. Ramifications for your careers are huge.

Extensions won't go away, they're a direct result of crew shortages and training limitations, but need to be made with due respect to the seniority system, as they were in the past.

herewego75 12th Jun 2019 01:00

HAHAHA are you serious? Express concerns to the AOA? Now that's the biggest joke I have heard today. What have they done for us - name one good thing?

ACMS 12th Jun 2019 01:22


Originally Posted by Exiled Aviator (Post 10491645)
Extensions beyond 55 in the past have resulted in frozen seniority and/or being moved onto freighter terms and even being placed at the bottom of the list. To point out the obvious, extending and maintaining seniority affects EVERYONE!! From career progression, career earnings with delayed upgrades stretching on years to being disadvantaged when it comes to type transfers, base slots, roster requests and leave allocation.

Time to WAKE UP and make some noise, general apathy which seems to have manifested itself is not going to help. Express your dissatisfaction to the company and the AOA. Ramifications for your careers are huge.

Extensions won't go away, they're a direct result of crew shortages and training limitations, but need to be made with due respect to the seniority system, as they were in the past.


those extenders in the past kept their DOJ for staff travel etc.......that was the issue

Farman Biplane 12th Jun 2019 02:50

And some returned to flying pax 744 with their original seniority.

Discrimination is an interesting animal, itís ok to shout that these guys shouldnít be extending past 55, but they have invariably had their commands delayed because many Captains extended to 65 when COS08 was offered.

Where does it stop? What particular instances of age discrimination are OK? I would say NONE are and RA65+ should have been offered as a no cost item back in COS08 days, like it was at KA.

Max Reheat 12th Jun 2019 04:24

Flex 88


Originally Posted by Flex88 (Post 10491305)
Ya, check out the SSI's ("senior" sim instructors) - some near 75 years old...... NO LIFE, NO MORALS... Stealing "check" positions from those who "in seniority" should get them and all that for way < than 50 % of the salary.. Seniority is a joke like most every COS at CX.

For Christ's sake get a grip! The SSIs are a direct result of the Training Ban, which stopped current training capts accepting an upgrade to STC! I'm not going to argue the rights or wrongs of the TB but your comment there is exactly why we find ourselves in the position we are in. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Firefly47 12th Jun 2019 05:54

How does any captain taking COS18 to stay past 55 sleep at night? Probably the same guys joining training but claimed they were "forced"

Arfur Dent 12th Jun 2019 07:27

COS 08 was simply bringing retirement age into line with the rest of the world. 55 is far too young to retire so some of us took advantage of the opportunity to stay. No regrets from me and when a pax slot (on pax pay) on the 744 offered a chance to never fly freight again in the Classic, that group of pilots would've been mad to refuse. In the transition to COS 08, many just stayed in their pax jobs (and bases) and flew till 65 - then retired. Some underwent a more complicated transition but I don't begrudge those who were allowed to simply stay where they were.
It was a transition period and a few got a very good deal whilst the industry changed to RA 65.

Flex88 12th Jun 2019 14:45

Work till when ??
 

Originally Posted by Paul852 (Post 10491419)
I'm curious as to what age you believe is the maximum at which a person should be "allowed" to earn a living from what is likely to be the only major marketable skill they have?

I'll surmise that you believe "until you die" is or should be the new norm.
Meritocracy - dead
Seniority - dead
Empathy for those with families still under retirement age trying to make a go of it - dead

Only good rules are the rules that suit you, n'est-ce pas ??

Me, me, me, me.......


All times are GMT. The time now is 00:35.


Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.