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COS 99 extensions- seniority is over

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COS 99 extensions- seniority is over

Old 16th Jul 2019, 09:54
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
Cxorcist? Air Profit? Anyone?

Facts only!
Are you a communist, you seem to compare apples to oranges, we are pilots so don't go comparing us to "others", compare us to like positions in other like airlines.

747 crews can expect over a hundred roster changes a year, legacy airlines like BA/QF can count yearly roster changes on their hands. Limited hours didn't equal more Gs, 12 day US patterns worth 30-40hrs is a far cry from back to back North America patterns worth some 60+ hours.

How about you do some research on other airlines rosters pay staff travel and retirement schemes and quit with comparing us to anyone who has zero to do with being a pilot.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 10:12
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The roster changes are mostly down route, part of the business and largely irrelevant.

Sometimes we come home a few hours later than advertised. So what? What important social event you are missing?

I am on your fleet, so please stick to the truth.

I flew 500 hours last year. You? Days off? 200 or 220?

My guess is you are commuting and THAT is the core problem.

PS Speaking of communists and comparing apples with oranges.. You make about double the money of a QF guy after tax..
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 10:58
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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You nuts?

A few hours late? I agree with what most of you say in terms of pay and benefits. However I am on the 747 and you are clearly not. I’m thrilled when I make it home on the same day. The roster changes down route are most certainly relevant as it becomes difficult to plan sleep and the fatigue is real. Again you clearly have never done it or you wouldn’t be spouting off like a moron.

Other than that it’s hard to argue. With a couple kids in school, a mortgage and a decent salary there are precisely zero higher paying airline jobs on the planet.

Even on the **** fleet I average 11 Gs a month. So call it max 180 days off. However at least 50% of those are being legitimately used for recovery and of little use as a day “off”. So while I still consider the money out for work in decent, you and I are clearly having different CX experiences. I hope to have your experience one day, sounds lovely.

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Old 16th Jul 2019, 14:47
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So Sam, which one of the new trainer scabs are you? If everyone was as much an idiot as you we would be on half the pay we are on now with no housing. It astounds me how supposedly intelligent people are actually so stupid.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 15:41
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So what you are saying is, that by refusing a payrise, you saved us from earning half?

Just when you think reason just might settle in someone like you shows up.

I am out, this is hopeless.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 16th Jul 2019 at 16:01.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 16:13
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Troll

Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
So what you are saying is, that by refusing a payrise, you saved us from earning half?

Just when you think reason just might settle in someone like you shows up.

I am out, this is hopeless.
I refuse to believe someone can be this dense and simple. Oh, wait - management or recent trainer !!!
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 17:04
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Sam, If you want to be a mouthpiece for management, have at it. Most of us in this airline sense and experience the dysfunction, incompetence, family disruption, career doubts and visceral fear of the future that this management has ably manifested. Arguing with you is futile. The airline is broken, and somehow you seem to feel sunlight shines out of its aXX. Enjoy your obviously perfect world.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 19:46
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PB!

In case you were wondering.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 23:38
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You are not fighting, you are jeopardizing our terms and conditions.

Your tantrums of the last years not only achieved absolutely nothing. We are going backwards.

The decline of TA16 and the delayed promotions due to the TB combined will cost us millions.

Each of us.

The company called our bluff and as a result will simply complete ignore whatever we say.
Granted, that was almost always the case in the past, but there was some goodwill present at times.

That is gone forever.

POS18 was introduced while you guys were "fighting".

If that alone is not clear evidence of the failure of your strategy then I don't know what is.

The training ban is dead. Hundreds of positions are already been filled up, demand resulting in oversubscription. They now even have a waiting list.

You guys in effect destroyed the union.

I was right from the beginning and deep down you all know it.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 17th Jul 2019 at 00:36.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 01:09
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Sanctimonious: Look it up Sam. As far as "jeopardizing our terms and conditions"...? Have you not looked at POS 18? There is nothing to jeopardize as the conditions are already worthless...mainly because people like you hid in your bunker and prayed "i'll be alright jack". The real cause of the present failure is the fact that we are riddled with either people like you, or people like those that have cravenly sold out their colleagues for a new training position. Between those two groups of individuals, the rest of us who have honoured the ban and voted down the poisoned chalice of the company's recent offers have found our efforts devalued and treated with contempt. I expect that from the company's management, but sadly didn't expect it from my own colleagues. I will enjoy treating the new trainers with the wholesale contempt that they deserve, and will also accept that the company has won this round. Ultimately, the eventual loser will be the company, as they force many of their pilots to resign and take their career aspirations elsewhere. The company will eventually reap what they sow.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 01:12
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I don’t know why anyone engages Sam ting ding a ling , he is clearly deranged or management, I suspect the latter
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 01:56
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The sad part is no one on the 777 or airbus fleet actually gives a f*ck about the 747 and all the issues the fleet has. If they did they would put fleet transfer on seniority and all the other 747 issues at the top of the list of things they want.
The truth is you won’t find a more selfish bunch than pilots at CX looking out for themselves.
The obvious answer is that the 747 issues get solved first but guys on the airbus or 777 are more interested in rosters and pay increases.
As with everything, CX pilots talk the talk but they don’t walk the walk.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 02:01
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Originally Posted by Air Profit
Sanctimonious: Look it up Sam. As far as "jeopardizing our terms and conditions"...? Have you not looked at POS 18? There is nothing to jeopardize as the conditions are already worthless...mainly because people like you hid in your bunker and prayed "i'll be alright jack". The real cause of the present failure is the fact that we are riddled with either people like you, or people like those that have cravenly sold out their colleagues for a new training position. Between those two groups of individuals, the rest of us who have honoured the ban and voted down the poisoned chalice of the company's recent offers have found our efforts devalued and treated with contempt. I expect that from the company's management, but sadly didn't expect it from my own colleagues. I will enjoy treating the new trainers with the wholesale contempt that they deserve, and will also accept that the company has won this round. Ultimately, the eventual loser will be the company, as they force many of their pilots to resign and take their career aspirations elsewhere. The company will eventually reap what they sow.
And yet nearly all who want to continue flying past 55 will sign COS18. If the company will let them.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 02:01
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Pickup, be careful not to paint us all with a broad brush. I am on the 777, and I completely agree that the issue of fleet transfer (or alternatively, a more humane rostering method) off the 747 should be priority number 1. You guys are abused and treated with contempt by the company, and without a proper method of assuring that all of you being entitled to the same opportunities that the rest of the fleets have, there really is no way to begin to stabilise the airline and ensure a brighter future for all. It should be the most important issue to solve before anything else.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 02:10
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Pickup, the "old and broke" crowd are a small percentage...but yes, you are correct, another own goal in seeing our conditions reduced even further. Between craven TB breakers, 55 COS18 sign ups and the fact that we can and will recruit from anywhere with any level of experience, there really is no other conclusion to draw that there will never be a proper "career" at CX. It is an airline of mercenaries and school kids. Even the management are mercenaries, dropping in a for a few years to make a few $$ off the backs of further cuts in our pay and benefits. Anyone under the age of 45 who is still here and not looking for an exit is mad, and they will surely regret not leaving when they had the chance. Ultimately, many of us are close to leaving (as is myself) so it is academic. For many of you, your entire career and it's possibilities rest on coming to terms with the fact that CX will chew you up and spit you out, probably broke and desperate by the time you get to the 55 point. Find an airline that provides decent pay, regulated work rules, somewhere your wife and kids can settle and have a normal life. You will ultimately be far happier. Doubt that?...then simply recognise the festering depression of your CX colleagues and their fatalistic outlook on just about everything. That is the consequence of 25 years of applied degradation to your worth and importance as a pilot in this organisation. They have the worst of the worst managing our airline so there should be no confusion as to why we are at the point we are. Desperate people on both sides of the aisle at CX, and what you get is the visible dysfunction and chaos that you see. It will not get better....ever.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 02:30
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Well said, AP.

What can you say about a place where friends and colleagues are given heartfelt congratulations when they move on to another aviation career. And folks are genuinely happy for them that they got out.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 04:21
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Meanwhile the purchase of HK Express is going forward full speed, so routes can be transferred to even ‘more efficient’ operation in the region. Expect ‘benchmarking’ to UO T&C
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 00:50
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If the RA65 option was introduced to ALL CX pilots, regardless of COS/rank/base/etc, without financial penalty to any of the officers, then this would never have been an issue.

IT WAS NOT OFFERED THIS WAY BY CX.

My understanding is that there is no issue at KA as RA65 was just introduced unilaterally without penalty.

Perhaps the HKAOA should explore that precedent?
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 03:29
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They cant train their way out of what is happening right now regardless of how many defect to new TC positions. QF are about to restart their sausage factory after they had to stop to train more trainers , BA, Virgin and Air Canada are accelerating. This is the relevant threat to Cathay, which is being turbo charged by an unsupervised HR empire and their COS shenanigans. Almost every 350 and 777 pilot above SO rank in this company is being rostered to high 90 hour months and has been since January. Christmas/CNY should be defining as to what gets offered to keep people here: accelerating resignations/retirements and the remainers on 900 hour maximums = parked aircraft.

The solution is a proper monetary response to housing and extensions or a piecemeal trickle which will offend and accelerate the departures. I think most of us can guess which it will be.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 03:32
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Originally Posted by Farman Biplane
If the RA65 option was introduced to ALL CX pilots, regardless of COS/rank/base/etc, without financial penalty to any of the officers, then this would never have been an issue.

IT WAS NOT OFFERED THIS WAY BY CX.

My understanding is that there is no issue at KA as RA65 was just introduced unilaterally without penalty.

Perhaps the HKAOA should explore that precedent?

Farman - retire and enjoy your money and let the rest of us enjoy a normal upgrade time. RA65 will kill this airline.... want to see EVERY FO leave? Give these old folks RA65 and bye bye every COS08 person with any flight time..... RA65 instantly adds 5/10 years to any upgrade time. Where the rest of the world upgrade is 5-10 years to begin with, RA65 would be crewing suicide for an already understaffed in the FO level airline.
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