Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Fragrant Harbour
Reload this Page >

COS 99 extensions- seniority is over

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

COS 99 extensions- seniority is over

Old 16th Jul 2019, 09:28
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by Apple Tree Yard View Post
I'll answer that:

1) effective lack of control of your life
2) constant erosion of pay and benefits (below average pay raises/no pay raises)
3) extortionate staff travel costs (the newly hired pilots can't even afford to travel in J due cost)
4) if you are on the "wrong" fleet, you might as well be working for a different airline
5) unaccountable management

....you only wanted 5, could go on and on.

Exactly what I thought, you can't name anything real or tangible.

1) How so? You have two or three times more days off than any regular employee in any other industry.
What do you mean? Roster changes? Really?
2) You made what last year, 300 k USD after tax?
3) 4 sectors ID 90 business class for almost free for you and your familiy. And regular ID90 is not affordable or good enough for you? Please leave others out, only personal experience
4) I am on the "wrong" fleet. What exactly is wrong with 500 hours block per year and 200 plus days off???
5) What does that even mean?

You got nothing accountable, just what I expected.
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 09:40
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41
Cxorcist? Air Profit? Anyone?

Facts only!
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 09:54
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 293
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
Cxorcist? Air Profit? Anyone?

Facts only!
Are you a communist, you seem to compare apples to oranges, we are pilots so don't go comparing us to "others", compare us to like positions in other like airlines.

747 crews can expect over a hundred roster changes a year, legacy airlines like BA/QF can count yearly roster changes on their hands. Limited hours didn't equal more Gs, 12 day US patterns worth 30-40hrs is a far cry from back to back North America patterns worth some 60+ hours.

How about you do some research on other airlines rosters pay staff travel and retirement schemes and quit with comparing us to anyone who has zero to do with being a pilot.
Avinthenews is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 10:12
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41
The roster changes are mostly down route, part of the business and largely irrelevant.

Sometimes we come home a few hours later than advertised. So what? What important social event you are missing?

I am on your fleet, so please stick to the truth.

I flew 500 hours last year. You? Days off? 200 or 220?

My guess is you are commuting and THAT is the core problem.

PS Speaking of communists and comparing apples with oranges.. You make about double the money of a QF guy after tax..
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 10:58
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 15
You nuts?

A few hours late? I agree with what most of you say in terms of pay and benefits. However I am on the 747 and you are clearly not. I’m thrilled when I make it home on the same day. The roster changes down route are most certainly relevant as it becomes difficult to plan sleep and the fatigue is real. Again you clearly have never done it or you wouldn’t be spouting off like a moron.

Other than that it’s hard to argue. With a couple kids in school, a mortgage and a decent salary there are precisely zero higher paying airline jobs on the planet.

Even on the shit fleet I average 11 Gs a month. So call it max 180 days off. However at least 50% of those are being legitimately used for recovery and of little use as a day “off”. So while I still consider the money out for work in decent, you and I are clearly having different CX experiences. I hope to have your experience one day, sounds lovely.

tiredofstupidity is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 14:47
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: HONG KONG
Posts: 85
So Sam, which one of the new trainer scabs are you? If everyone was as much an idiot as you we would be on half the pay we are on now with no housing. It astounds me how supposedly intelligent people are actually so stupid.
Brown Nose is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 15:41
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41
So what you are saying is, that by refusing a payrise, you saved us from earning half?

Just when you think reason just might settle in someone like you shows up.

I am out, this is hopeless.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 16th Jul 2019 at 16:01.
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 16:13
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 550
Troll

Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
So what you are saying is, that by refusing a payrise, you saved us from earning half?

Just when you think reason just might settle in someone like you shows up.

I am out, this is hopeless.
I refuse to believe someone can be this dense and simple. Oh, wait - management or recent trainer !!!
Flex88 is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 17:04
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 687
Sam, If you want to be a mouthpiece for management, have at it. Most of us in this airline sense and experience the dysfunction, incompetence, family disruption, career doubts and visceral fear of the future that this management has ably manifested. Arguing with you is futile. The airline is broken, and somehow you seem to feel sunlight shines out of its aXX. Enjoy your obviously perfect world.
Air Profit is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 19:46
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 21
PB!

In case you were wondering.
Piet Lood is online now  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 23:38
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41
You are not fighting, you are jeopardizing our terms and conditions.

Your tantrums of the last years not only achieved absolutely nothing. We are going backwards.

The decline of TA16 and the delayed promotions due to the TB combined will cost us millions.

Each of us.

The company called our bluff and as a result will simply complete ignore whatever we say.
Granted, that was almost always the case in the past, but there was some goodwill present at times.

That is gone forever.

POS18 was introduced while you guys were "fighting".

If that alone is not clear evidence of the failure of your strategy then I don't know what is.

The training ban is dead. Hundreds of positions are already been filled up, demand resulting in oversubscription. They now even have a waiting list.

You guys in effect destroyed the union.

I was right from the beginning and deep down you all know it.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 17th Jul 2019 at 00:36.
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 01:09
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 687
Sanctimonious: Look it up Sam. As far as "jeopardizing our terms and conditions"...? Have you not looked at POS 18? There is nothing to jeopardize as the conditions are already worthless...mainly because people like you hid in your bunker and prayed "i'll be alright jack". The real cause of the present failure is the fact that we are riddled with either people like you, or people like those that have cravenly sold out their colleagues for a new training position. Between those two groups of individuals, the rest of us who have honoured the ban and voted down the poisoned chalice of the company's recent offers have found our efforts devalued and treated with contempt. I expect that from the company's management, but sadly didn't expect it from my own colleagues. I will enjoy treating the new trainers with the wholesale contempt that they deserve, and will also accept that the company has won this round. Ultimately, the eventual loser will be the company, as they force many of their pilots to resign and take their career aspirations elsewhere. The company will eventually reap what they sow.
Air Profit is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 01:12
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 339
I don’t know why anyone engages Sam ting ding a ling , he is clearly deranged or management, I suspect the latter
oriental flyer is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 01:56
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 25
The sad part is no one on the 777 or airbus fleet actually gives a f*ck about the 747 and all the issues the fleet has. If they did they would put fleet transfer on seniority and all the other 747 issues at the top of the list of things they want.
The truth is you won’t find a more selfish bunch than pilots at CX looking out for themselves.
The obvious answer is that the 747 issues get solved first but guys on the airbus or 777 are more interested in rosters and pay increases.
As with everything, CX pilots talk the talk but they don’t walk the walk.
Pickuptruck is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 02:01
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
Sanctimonious: Look it up Sam. As far as "jeopardizing our terms and conditions"...? Have you not looked at POS 18? There is nothing to jeopardize as the conditions are already worthless...mainly because people like you hid in your bunker and prayed "i'll be alright jack". The real cause of the present failure is the fact that we are riddled with either people like you, or people like those that have cravenly sold out their colleagues for a new training position. Between those two groups of individuals, the rest of us who have honoured the ban and voted down the poisoned chalice of the company's recent offers have found our efforts devalued and treated with contempt. I expect that from the company's management, but sadly didn't expect it from my own colleagues. I will enjoy treating the new trainers with the wholesale contempt that they deserve, and will also accept that the company has won this round. Ultimately, the eventual loser will be the company, as they force many of their pilots to resign and take their career aspirations elsewhere. The company will eventually reap what they sow.
And yet nearly all who want to continue flying past 55 will sign COS18. If the company will let them.
Pickuptruck is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 02:01
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 687
Pickup, be careful not to paint us all with a broad brush. I am on the 777, and I completely agree that the issue of fleet transfer (or alternatively, a more humane rostering method) off the 747 should be priority number 1. You guys are abused and treated with contempt by the company, and without a proper method of assuring that all of you being entitled to the same opportunities that the rest of the fleets have, there really is no way to begin to stabilise the airline and ensure a brighter future for all. It should be the most important issue to solve before anything else.
Air Profit is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 02:10
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 687
Pickup, the "old and broke" crowd are a small percentage...but yes, you are correct, another own goal in seeing our conditions reduced even further. Between craven TB breakers, 55 COS18 sign ups and the fact that we can and will recruit from anywhere with any level of experience, there really is no other conclusion to draw that there will never be a proper "career" at CX. It is an airline of mercenaries and school kids. Even the management are mercenaries, dropping in a for a few years to make a few $$ off the backs of further cuts in our pay and benefits. Anyone under the age of 45 who is still here and not looking for an exit is mad, and they will surely regret not leaving when they had the chance. Ultimately, many of us are close to leaving (as is myself) so it is academic. For many of you, your entire career and it's possibilities rest on coming to terms with the fact that CX will chew you up and spit you out, probably broke and desperate by the time you get to the 55 point. Find an airline that provides decent pay, regulated work rules, somewhere your wife and kids can settle and have a normal life. You will ultimately be far happier. Doubt that?...then simply recognise the festering depression of your CX colleagues and their fatalistic outlook on just about everything. That is the consequence of 25 years of applied degradation to your worth and importance as a pilot in this organisation. They have the worst of the worst managing our airline so there should be no confusion as to why we are at the point we are. Desperate people on both sides of the aisle at CX, and what you get is the visible dysfunction and chaos that you see. It will not get better....ever.
Air Profit is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 02:30
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 130
Well said, AP.

What can you say about a place where friends and colleagues are given heartfelt congratulations when they move on to another aviation career. And folks are genuinely happy for them that they got out.
Slasher1 is online now  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 04:21
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
Posts: 688
Meanwhile the purchase of HK Express is going forward full speed, so routes can be transferred to even ‘more efficient’ operation in the region. Expect ‘benchmarking’ to UO T&C
Freehills is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2019, 00:50
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 295
If the RA65 option was introduced to ALL CX pilots, regardless of COS/rank/base/etc, without financial penalty to any of the officers, then this would never have been an issue.

IT WAS NOT OFFERED THIS WAY BY CX.

My understanding is that there is no issue at KA as RA65 was just introduced unilaterally without penalty.

Perhaps the HKAOA should explore that precedent?
Farman Biplane is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.