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Training ban broken

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Training ban broken

Old 5th Jun 2019, 18:47
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Oasis

got any better ideas?
Yes,
Go on strike.
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 18:54
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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I’m afraid that if you want a career or any improvements to your COS this is your only option
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 21:25
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Sadly, due to a few craven individuals with no character or sense of morality (you know who you are....and so do we), the efforts of 3000+ plus pilots has been wasted. I might add that we are talking about an effort now going on 4 years. You have those individuals to thank for wasting your efforts, the sacrifices of your families and the ultimate loss of your leverage and hopes for any improvement to your packages. All so those individuals could squirrel away a few more percent for themselves. The definition of selfish, narcissistic and immoral. Every single one of you.
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 21:31
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mngmt mole
Sadly, due to a few craven individuals with no character or sense of morality (you know who you are....and so do we), the efforts of 3000+ plus pilots has been wasted. I might add that we are talking about an effort now going on 4 years. You have those individuals to thank for wasting your efforts, the sacrifices of your families and the ultimate loss of your leverage and hopes for any improvement to your packages. All so those individuals could squirrel away a few more percent for themselves. The definition of selfish, narcissistic and immoral. Every single one of you.
Amen! Thereís no arguing that FACT.
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 21:51
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Roy De Kantzow
4 years....

But. Its. Not. Working.
If thatís true and the consensus, then come up with a better plan, but donít throw the baby out with the bath water and do your own thing. That is not just selfish and immoral, itís downright dumb.
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 21:53
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cxorcist


If that’s true and the consensus, then come up with a better plan, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water and do your own thing. That is not just selfish and immoral, it’s downright dumb.
I did, see post 127.

And I can do my own thing - I left CX, which is far more action than many of the chest beaters on here!!
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 22:54
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Roy, a lot of us here are planning on leaving, but it's not as easy for some as it is for others...so please, don't chest thump. Those that volunteered for training have done a terrible thing to their colleagues, their families and the collective hope for a better future. Just another reason to believe that there really is no career of value left here. It's ironic, but the same greedy, shameless individuals who have thrown their colleagues under the bus have also thrown their own long term best interests under the bus as well. Truly a sad, pathetic airline full of sad pathetic characters. The only real option for those who care about their careers is to leave, and to do so as soon as possible.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 08:44
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Air Profit
Roy, a lot of us here are planning on leaving, but it's not as easy for some as it is for others...so please, don't chest thump. Those that volunteered for training have done a terrible thing to their colleagues, their families and the collective hope for a better future. Just another reason to believe that there really is no career of value left here. It's ironic, but the same greedy, shameless individuals who have thrown their colleagues under the bus have also thrown their own long term best interests under the bus as well. Truly a sad, pathetic airline full of sad pathetic characters. The only real option for those who care about their careers is to leave, and to do so as soon as possible.
The logic of this forum never ceases to amaze.

I leave, as so many on here are encouraged to do (for the sake of clarity I left entirely under my own conscience), and then I get accused of Ďchest thumpingí. How does that make any sense? Iím merely stating fact. I have left CX and I do feel that a strike is the ONLY course of action the CX management would understand. Rehashing the same strategy over and over and blindly Ďstaying the courseí when Ďthe courseí is blatantly not working doesnít seem to be the smartest course of action. TB and CC have all been circumnavigated, and the industrial strategy needs to change.The pilot body didnít even blink when COS18 was introduced. It was just accepted as a fait accompli. That shows me there is absolutely zero stomach for any fight, which means you either make your own plans, or accept that the career prospects at CX are over.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 09:03
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Roy De Kantzow
The logic of this forum never ceases to amaze.
Roy, you should know as well as anyone that 'logic' and 'this forum' are mutually exclusive terms.

STP
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 09:24
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Ha, my mistake - temporary lapse!
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 15:59
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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I also left. Leaving behind 12 years of a career and all that entails was not easy, but my life is now happier for it. I am sorry for all of my ex-colleagues, as there are many great pilots at CX who do not deserve what they are being dealt. The trajectory of a flying career at CX is now well established, and I hope that all of you who are seeking something better find what you are looking for.

box
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 09:59
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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For any leader to enact an unpopular policy they need stooges. Theses stooges must be deeply delusional in that they must be made to believe that they are being admitted to some kind of exclusive, elitist inner sanctum and that further enhancements will be attached to their promotion of this unpopular policy. They must be so delusional that they cannot see the damage they are doing to their own standing in the community nor the damage that they do to the best interests of their colleagues. Plus , they must be convinced that doing 30% extra work for 10% extra salary is a wise decision.

There is a school of thought that says that the desire to become a stooge should automatically preclude you from becoming one on the the grounds of poor professional judgement. ( Nobody believes they are “forced” into stoogery, they are all willing volunteers).
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 11:25
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Yes. “But I’m a trainer now” is how they look at it.
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 14:42
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by motley flight crue
Yes. ďBut Iím a trainer nowĒ is how they look at it.
ďBut Iím SCAT nowĒ is how they should look at it. A Training scab, newly minted aptly as scaT, just one rung higher than a full fledged scab.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 06:59
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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It's going to be an interesting career going forward for these people. We all know who they are, and we all know what they have done (to everyone of us and our families hopes and futures). At least I know who won't be getting JS's and who not to share a beer with. Reputation: a lifetime to earn, a moment to lose.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 00:10
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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There are now just under 100 guys on the training captain list and the list is growing every day. The training ban is dead, it is now causing more problems to us than to them. The reality is that even if we wanted to remove the training ban we will never be able to get rid of it. As it is linked to HKPA and RP, means we will never be able to remove it, as we will never get more than 67% of member to agree on both of these items at the same time. The captains taking up the training positions is only the start, as more people figure out that in the past 6 months the ill conceived motions by a minority of the membership had tangled up the union’s ability to achieve anything, they will start to resign. Most of my contemporaries are waiting to see what happens with the vote in September, they all say that if RF runs and gets voted in as chairman, they will quit the union. The TB is dead and the AOA all of a sudden it totally irrelevant, and we can only blame ourselves for that!
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 01:16
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Frogman1484
There are now just under 100 guys on the training captain list and the list is growing every day. The training ban is dead, it is now causing more problems to us than to them. The reality is that even if we wanted to remove the training ban we will never be able to get rid of it. As it is linked to HKPA and RP, means we will never be able to remove it, as we will never get more than 67% of member to agree on both of these items at the same time. The captains taking up the training positions is only the start, as more people figure out that in the past 6 months the ill conceived motions by a minority of the membership had tangled up the unionís ability to achieve anything, they will start to resign. Most of my contemporaries are waiting to see what happens with the vote in September, they all say that if RF runs and gets voted in as chairman, they will quit the union. The TB is dead and the AOA all of a sudden it totally irrelevant, and we can only blame ourselves for that!
Well, if that isnít shouting it from the rooftops, I donít know what is. Well done Froggy!
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 02:35
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Well cxorcist, if you haven’t already figured it out your self, then you have your head in the sand.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 02:39
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Frogman1484
Well cxorcist, if you havenít already figured it out your self, then you have your head in the sand.
No sand in my sphere. Iím pretty sure you missed my point. It doesnít matter now, water under the bridge / spilt milk.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 07:29
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Iím happy to accept the ban worked once but doesnít work now. Iím just as happy to pretend there is only 4 guys going into training and/or breaking the TB and not the list thatís grown to 60 plus. Iím also happy to pretend there isnít training captain courses all the way into August.

There guys donít care, the whole idea that actions like turning your back on them in dispatch will be effective, sadly is rubbish.

We need to vote to end TB/CC. It is in the current climate utterly worthless.
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