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RP18

Old 29th May 2018, 10:09
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by raven11 View Post
First of all, the SOs are not the majority...and secondly, even among their ranks a significant portion are smart enough to not vote in favour of a weak agreement that would deminish their future pay and benefits. Secondly, the Company made the silly error of pitching their last offer to only 51% of the membership, with no margin for error, and the vote for acceptance fell short to 47%. They should have pitched it to 70% to ensure a comfortable margin of victory. They didn’t and the past two years of industrial strife was the result. Thirdly, the GC is smart enough to not present a package to the membership that favors only one group of pilots. A fracture would be the outcome of doing something that dumb.

Any silly repeat of past negotiation posturing and obstinance by the Company should result in the AOA immediately walking away...We’ve reached the point where the Company needs to end the training ban. The ball is in their court.


Lets help the company out. No TA shall be accepted unless ≥ 70% of members vote yes. No more 50 + 1. The deal must get the approval of most of the pilots.
controlledrest is offline  
Old 29th May 2018, 10:30
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 405
Agreed.



(more characters)
OK4Wire is offline  
Old 29th May 2018, 12:13
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kaya Lalapanzi
Posts: 116
First of all, the SOs are not the majority...and secondly, even among their ranks a significant portion are smart enough to not vote in favour of a weak agreement that would deminish their future pay and benefits......
Those on COS08 ARE in the significant majority...where it will count.
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Old 29th May 2018, 14:06
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 290
O days must be abolished. They are free reserve.

​​​​​​Free reserve abolished

Proper G day compensation

"Roster disruption" abolished, it's your fault crew operations you pay for it not us!
Avinthenews is offline  
Old 30th May 2018, 00:43
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bouvet Island
Posts: 110
You all need to dream on. Most people have lost hope that any sort of meaningful changes will take place in these or any future negotiations. As such, pilots are leaving. That is what they think of the power of the "association." That it has none in fact. That is what they think of the possibility of the management to change. That it has no possibility to change. That is what they think of the future of this airline.

These would in fact all be nice additions, but in reality they only have their place in aviation in countries outside of the Asian market. Canada, US, Europe, Australia, yes, but here in HKG they will never happen, ever, and why Cathay will never again base pilots in any of these countries. Which again is why pilots are leaving CX, and the pace is only going to accelerate. As long as the money continues to roll into the coffers of the AOA unabated, whilst no inflationary adjustment is given, no pay increase is given, nothing is done but a few mild words about "solidarity", no mass resignations from the AOA, and the company is able to go a few more years without paying any inflationary adjustment, or a pay increase, why on earth would either of them want a fight?
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Old 30th May 2018, 02:11
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 20
Plainpilot,

Sadly true. No leadership from either the union or company. Both seem to view the pilot body as a mass they can extract wealth from, in return for some management yuck-speak.

For those thinking/hoping resignation rates are generating leverage, perhaps a rethink is required. The latest company Pravda contained this piece of yuck-speak,

"Capacity rationalisation remained aggressive..."

In plain-english, that translates to shrinking the airline. When a pilot leaves, I'm sure there's a round of G&Ts on the 9th floor. If it's a pilot on expat terms, add a bottle of Bollinger.

Why shrink the airline? They appear to be after short term profits at the expense of long-term growth and have abandoned the idea of defending the airline's position against competitors. This adds weight to the argument that we are being prepared for sale.

As for the talks, the RP deal sounds like RP07 all over again and just a formalisation of how we are being rostered now and will be a "gap-filler" until CMP arrives. Nobody will actually get a better roster, perhaps worse (just ask the boys and girls over at KA enjoying the sodimiser).

I am picking there will be a modest increase in HKPA to get the required votes, with the increase being funded by the expat's leaving and the non-payment (again) of 13th month if the required profits aren't there and if they think they can get away with it (and why wouldn't they?). There might be a promise of a payrise, but just a promise, however fleet transfer by seniority, 25 year housing, SHP, min credit day, RA65 won't even get a mention. All lost in the push to get a "deal" before the GC changeover in August.

Any LEP who thinks this will be a "win", doesn't know how to use a calculator.

Why the union is even participating in this nonsense is beyond me. All kind of depressing really.....

Last edited by Liam Gallagher; 30th May 2018 at 02:45.
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Old 30th May 2018, 02:20
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 31
Hong Kong Airlines will have their DEFO program for current Second Officers approved by CAD in the Q3/Q4 this year. I think you could expect an influx of SO's being poached. Good on HK Airlines for seeing potential there.

SO's, put in your applications so they have it on record for when they start interviews.
AdB29 is offline  
Old 30th May 2018, 04:41
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 471
I think it is a difficult situation because IMHO this guy quite accurately sums up the ‘ethics’ and methodology of those steering the ship

Shep69 is offline  
Old 30th May 2018, 04:47
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 835
The AOA needs to clarify the RP offer. If it doesn’t address ALL of the issiues of comcern, then we need to throw it back and ramp up CC. Oh, amd then the company can address the other big elephants in the room as well. No peace until a proper contract is offered.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 30th May 2018, 15:53
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: HKG 'visitor'
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by Shep69 View Post
I think it is a difficult situation because IMHO this guy quite accurately sums up the ‘ethics’ and methodology of those steering the ship

https://youtu.be/73OZncDEDks
One Hundred Percent
spleener is offline  
Old 31st May 2018, 13:33
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kaya Lalapanzi
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by Flyer109 View Post
Hong Kong Airlines will have their DEFO program for current Second Officers approved by CAD in the Q3/Q4 this year. I think you could expect an influx of SO's being poached. Good on HK Airlines for seeing potential there.

SO's, put in your applications so they have it on record for when they start interviews.
If HNA lasts that long - Why invest your future in an airline(company) that is hemorrhaging stock?
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Old 31st May 2018, 14:01
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by gofor View Post
If HNA lasts that long - Why invest your future in an airline(company) that is hemorrhaging stock?
Well it has been said a few times, but for some younger SOs who don’t quite have the experience for other DEFO positions, it’s these options or nothing.

Quite often its the older guys who warn people of the conditions at these airlines. You are quite right and entitled to spread the news but just keep younger people in mind when discouraging people. We are all quite aware that there is no green grass in any airlines in Hong Kong
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Old 31st May 2018, 16:08
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 835
HNA will do fine. There are several very deep pocket companies that are ready to buy out HNA if the opportunity arises. They are too big to fail.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2018, 07:25
  #34 (permalink)  
hyg
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by gofor View Post
If HNA lasts that long - Why invest your future in an airline(company) that is hemorrhaging stock?
It was on the local financial newspaper yesterday that HKA is going for another listing attempt....
hyg is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2018, 03:41
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the road
Posts: 156
So we are nearing the end of these negotiations and the "Company" in their latest newsletter have forewarned they will not spend any money fixing the mass exodus of pilots as it is "not fair to the other staff" (or their bonuses). The Swire modus operandi takes over yet again.
mr did is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2018, 04:07
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 149
Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
HNA will do fine. There are several very deep pocket companies that are ready to buy out HNA if the opportunity arises. They are too big to fail.
I needed a laugh and that was it. Do you have any idea how indebted the HNA group is? Google them for this weeks haemorrhaging. To say they will do fine is utter garbage, their latest bond issue hit junk status, they've been denied investment opportunities in Australia and NZ because the respective governments doing due diligence view HNA as insolvent.
No one is stepping in, if anything they'll shrink down to where they were 10 years ago.
morningcoffee is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2018, 04:17
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by mr did View Post
So we are nearing the end of these negotiations and the "Company" in their latest newsletter have forewarned they will not spend any money fixing the mass exodus of pilots as it is "not fair to the other staff" (or their bonuses). The Swire modus operandi takes over yet again.
Oh, fair like 13 month they mean, now I understand.
Avinthenews is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2018, 08:13
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Asia
Posts: 92
Can the AOA team make it clear that if they don’t have pilots the 25000 will follow the earlier 600 and find themselves not working for an airline. WTF do these negotiations have to do with the 25000?
Bangaluru is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2018, 01:32
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 608
The End

Originally Posted by mr did View Post
So we are nearing the end of these negotiations and the "Company" in their latest newsletter have forewarned they will not spend any money fixing the mass exodus of pilots as it is "not fair to the other staff" (or their bonuses). The Swire modus operandi takes over yet again.
Last DFO newsletter sounded to me like it was more or less all wrapped up and only a couple of details to iron out.
One last big push to lock in DFO's bonus before her pineapple dislodges and she uncomfortably moves on to sprinkle her Swire pixy dust on some other group of unsuspecting proletariats where, I'm sure, she will be as equally unqualified as she was as DFO.. Sad.

And before the rash of "Sexist" comments comes flooding out; I want to make my point totally clear. What I want is solid, qualified, highly experienced, vetted managers who got to where they are by MERIT not boot licking sycophants or Elite school grads and I don't give one flying piece of sh** was sex they are..

Clear Enough ??
Flex88 is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2018, 07:56
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
Posts: 954
Bravo, flex88. My feelings exactly.
Cpt. Underpants is offline  

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