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Hong Kong Airlines (HKA)

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Hong Kong Airlines (HKA)

Old 24th Dec 2017, 00:53
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Uk
Posts: 179
Cxorcist...all completely wrong ...but carry on
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 01:17
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,933
Itís really quite remarkable that anyone, besides CX management, would defend CX management. They are so bad at their jobs that it would be laughable if they werenít hurting so many good people, and trying desperately to do more. I thought DPís latest missive was a joke. So tired, so repetitive, so clearly fake news. But then there are people like Sobad that actually read and are influenced by it, so I suppose itís not wasted effort after all. Itís like watching RT or Al Jazeera for news. Does anyone actually believe that garbage? Apparently so. God help us.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 01:22
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Uk
Posts: 179
Why on earth do you all make accusations based on assumptions and absolutely zero facts .....it makes you all look so stupid
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 01:35
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Uk
Posts: 179
Cxorcist, you claim to know what I read....can you tell me just what it is that you think that I have read that You have an issue with
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 01:40
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 41
Trafalgar and cxorcist,
You still haven't explained why you are still working for CX if it is so bad. There are plenty of DEC jobs available and contract jobs, so you can't say you are trapped by seniority. Its about time you stop telling the younger guys there is "no career at cathay". If you have even looked at jobs out there you will realise the grass ain't greener. Now, how about taking your moaning back to the countless threads dedicated to CX and leave this one for HKA.
enoughisenough_ is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2017, 01:49
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 511
The guy/girl asking for facts is stomping his/her feet while hurling insults and calling names...

Here are a couple of FACTS...my pay and conditions have been unilaterally attacked and reduced for the past two decades...the pilot/management relationship is toxic...

And you say?
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 01:51
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,609
Well, you started out having an issue with me. I'm not sure why however. You say you don't 'like' me. Ok, why? Just because you don't like what I say doesn't make it less important, or less valid. Is what I say about CX and our management untrue? I have been here many years and seen just how destructive the Swire's have been to our profession, but for some reason you seem to want to be angry towards me for pointing it out. If you like it here, then by all means stay. My opinion doesn't matter in that case. However, for everyone else, I am cautioning them as to what to expect if they stay. More importantly, I am cautioning them to not be deluded into thinking that things will 'turn out' for them if they stay. In the past it was probably a better option. Now, with airlines around the world hiring (and improving their packages) it is probable that a better career is to be had elsewhere. That is not to mention the impossibility of truly settling down in the worlds most expensive city without a proper housing package. No one with a wife/family could make that situation workable or livable. I don't want younger pilots to find themselves in the same situation I have: too old to make a change. CX likes to lure people into the company when they are young and susceptible to the 'shiny jet syndrome'. By the time they have had their fill of lies, deceit, bullying, intimidation and constantly changing conditions, many of them find they are too old to make a successful move elsewhere. At that point, extreme frustration, anger and bitterness will be all that's left. I feel that way much of the time, and I at least had the best years of the CX career. Think how much more those feelings will manifest themselves when you can't even look back on that benefit. Again, if you are satisfied, then stay (and we can compare notes in 20 yrs time). I feel an obligation to my colleagues to clear away much of the crap and highlight the facts of not only the current management, but the bigger picture career wise. You can agree or not. I find it curious as to how upset my comments make you. Hard to conclude anything other than you are either management, or someone who is working with and for management. Either way, most of your comments are pro management and pro status-quo. That doesn't add up when evaluating the facts. Regardless of 'my opinion, most of my colleagues have made up their own minds to leave, so the market will determine who has more credibility. I feel pretty safe making a bet on that outcome.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 05:49
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 159
Of course, anyone who doesn’t agree with you is management. After 20 yrs in CX I’m guessing you haven’t got the slightest clue what’s out there for a low time CPL.
I pasted a few of the options, most of which left you £100-150k in debt minimum. Feel free to paste what amazing jobs are out there for 200 hr pilots.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 06:12
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by Trafalgar View Post
Regardless of 'my opinion, most of my colleagues have made up their own minds to leave, so the market will determine who has more credibility. I feel pretty safe making a bet on that outcome.
Most of your colleagues leaving, except you. What does that say about your credibility? Especially when you are trying to make others leave to enhance your own position. Don't pretend like you are looking out for the younger generation, you couldn't care less about them.

Also, I think you will find that thr resignation rate is not as high as you try to make it out to be otherwise aircraft would be getting parked. Don't get me wrong, I am sick of CX's continual attack on COS as well, however I probably speak for a number of us who are fed up with the inaction of the people who speak the loudest, especially the likes of you. Now get back to turning up to work early, accepting directs, RETI, using discretion and doing side deals with crew control.
enoughisenough_ is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2017, 06:12
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 486
Hmmmmmm.....

I had a pretty amazing job as a 200 hour pilot. AND a great group of folks to fly with. AND phenomenal hands on training. AND was trained by some of the finest folks on the planet. AND was completely debt free.

Still remember it to this day. All jobs have their challenges, but this was FUN.

Didn't get paid nearly as much as I do now. But for some reason had a great deal more job satisfaction. Funny how that works. I trusted my employer and they trusted me. I took good care of them and they took good care of me.

FWIW, you have pilots worldwide with hours in the hundreds getting paid reasonably well, flying a few feet from another guy's (or gal's) wing, taking gas, flying low and fast, flying high and fast, getting shot at in combat and shooting back, being responsible for bombing the RIGHT target, you name it. And loving what they do--strongly motivated to make the TEAM succeed. Even though the pay isn't the best the training is first rate and they trust their 'employer' and mates literally with their lives. And I think this makes all the difference. What we have had here is a basic breach of trust which has gotten us to where we are.

That the best you can do with the rhetoric, Mr. Coffee ? "We're looking for low time low experience pilots with no where else to go so they can fly our shiny big jets full of trusting souls" Not sure I'd advertise this in the outside world.

Last edited by Shep69; 24th Dec 2017 at 06:27.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 06:13
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,933
Originally Posted by morningcoffee View Post
Of course, anyone who doesnít agree with you is management. After 20 yrs in CX Iím guessing you havenít got the slightest clue whatís out there for a low time CPL.
I pasted a few of the options, most of which left you £100-150k in debt minimum. Feel free to paste what amazing jobs are out there for 200 hr pilots.
200 hour pilots donít belong flying airliners, full stop. They should be earning their way the same as previous generations did before them. That CX is beating down the conditions of real pilots with fake pilots is a sick joke, and yes, the HKCAD is complicit.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 07:09
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 159
Ok Shep, itís 2017, paste those great jobs on here right now, plenty of C scalers would love to see their options.
Cxorcist, BA and LH have had 200 hr cadets for a while, donít think theyíre quite the Airlines you make them out to be.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 07:32
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 47
BA 55 years
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 08:34
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 511
enoughisenough.

Join date Dec 2017, 5 posts (two on this page).

Hmmmmmm...

If you would bother to read any of Traf’s 1310 posts, you’d see that he would be the last person to “turn up to work early, accept directs, RETI, use discretion, or do any side deals with crew control.”

Morning Coffee.

You are becoming tedious. Please venture outside your cubicle once in a while. Im afraid that the FAA agrees with cxorcist, 200 hour pilots don’t belong in commercial airliners...
raven11 is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2017, 10:12
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 41
And my join date has what relevance? So just because he posts on an anonymous forum that he doesn't do those things, we are suppposed to believe him?

1310 posts since end of 2015 all in fragrant harbor moaning about cx. Does Traf have nothing better to do with his life than complain every single day on an internet forum about the company that places food in front of him and his family. Sounds pretty bitter yet he still works here.

He is in no position to tell others to leave or say how great life is outside of cx unless he himself hands in his resignation.

Good luck finding a contract as good as the CX one which doesn't involve living in Mainland China. Traf knows it and that's why he continues in his miserable existence at Cathay.

Time will tell whether or not removal of ARAPA will cause a spike in resignations but I am betting the majority will stay.

And before you say I am pro-company or a management stooge... I'm not, I'm just a realist. Attempting to convince LEPs to resign is not going to improve your contract. All you are doing is contributing to the already toxic workplace and I would hate to have to share the flight deck with you.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 13:36
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,609
Hello DP. You're up early today. And btw, that's 1311 now. I told you, I am ensuring that the dissemination of propaganda by CX is countered with the facts. Only those in management react as you do. You make it an ad hominem attack. You never address the FACTS of the message, only attack the messenger. That's the beauty of the internet, CX can't control it. I have plenty of time to analyse the diatribe of rubbish that comes out of your offices and I then repackage it to shine a bit of clarity for the benefit of my colleagues. And that is the difference: they are my colleagues. Not my adversaries, as they are to you. If I can help one 25-40 year old pilot from wasting his career with an employer that clearly doesn't deserve him/her, then I am grateful. If I can help that person find themselves settled in their home country with a happy family, living in decent accommodation and their children not at risk of asthma or worse, then it's worth it. This airline is treating it's loyal, hard working and experienced pilots with contempt and disrespect. I've put up with that for well over 20 years, and i'm hoping that others needn't suffer the same fate. As for you and your kind, your entire purpose is based on nothing more than moving a pencil around, and envying others. That is the type of person that is truly pathetic. That and the deluded belief that somehow 20 ish year old cadets can supplant a battle hardened and experienced workforce, without drastic and tragic consequences. Only a clueless bean counter can't see the absurdity in that.

Last edited by Trafalgar; 24th Dec 2017 at 13:56.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 13:49
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 511
Agree Traf.

“...share the flight deck...”

Ha ha ha..Who talks like that?

It’s either a contrived attempt to appear to be a pilot, or someone half way through Adelaide. In either case ENE is obviously not a pilot.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 14:11
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,609
....and if he is, heaven help us...
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 18:22
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 41
oh look, the same old retort you always use when someone doesn't agree with you Traf and raven, I must be management... Good one. Meanwhile still dodging the fact that you guys are still working at CX and yet to provide any evidence of a better job.
Traf is raven your second account you created so you can agree with yourself on the forum? How pathetic.
You guys have mental problems and definitely are not suitable to be commanders.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 18:44
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,609
Post #7 Enoughisenough? Stop being truant from your CX cubicle job and get back to work (oh, I forgot, it's Christmas...only the front line crew are working today. Enjoy the holiday's).
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