Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Bases ?

Old 8th Dec 2016, 21:35
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 23:15
  #42 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2000
Location: By the sea
Posts: 124
Betpump, please be a nice chap and continue wearing long sleeves, so that I can continue going out of my way to avoid you. Enjoy the weather.
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Old 9th Dec 2016, 07:23
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 607
I mentioned earlier, NO FO's will get PER base. Senior Capt's will stampede over the carcasses of squished unassuming FO's, volunteer to downgrade to FO and take a PER base.
They would have then got rid of a dozen or so very senior Capt's (and their pay packets). Once that is done - they will bend over laughing and open bases to many more less expensive Capt's and FO's .......... Ca Ching....
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Old 9th Dec 2016, 07:54
  #44 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,801
Why would a HK based CN want to take a $100,000 AUD before tax pay cut when if they were that desperate for a base they would take a pay rise and go to China Southern.

You are full of it.
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Old 9th Dec 2016, 08:15
  #45 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: hong kong
Posts: 397
Who knows who the best people are to go through for employment with another airline downunder ....just wondering
Cheers 🍻
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 05:22
  #46 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: home
Posts: 368
100k pay cut to extend your families life by decades? Sounds like a bargain. (cue the "HK has one of the highest life expectancies in the world" delusionals)
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 15:36
  #47 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 66
Average life expectancies:
Hong Kong 83.48, Australia 82.10, USA 78.74 etc etc. I am happy here.
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 16:17
  #48 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
Posts: 954
I suspect that the numbers will take a massive dive when the generation that were born in the 90's begin to reach middle age.
The long term effects of the unspeakably poor air quality and increasingly westernised diet post China's "modernisation" will begin to make an impact.
A series of calamities are going to hit China in the years ahead...their catastrophic one child policy is already backfiring, overdependence on fossil fuels, lack of natural resources and criminal industrial pollution will all begin to bite. Their military expansion and territorial ambitions are no coincidence.
Cpt. Underpants is online now  
Old 14th Dec 2016, 23:21
  #49 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: VHHH Ocean 2D
Posts: 726
Common theme occuring here- Aussies.
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Old 15th Dec 2016, 01:59
  #50 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 43
Another Day... "Let's not forget all the Aussies who took month on month off with KA and then came running back to hkg 5 minutes later because they couldn't stand living in Australia for a month at a time"

I know of "one" that's come back off RRO from Australia. Do you know of more?
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Old 15th Dec 2016, 03:12
  #51 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,796

Recent complaints are a few on it have never known a KA line roster. Personally, I've never believed in it as RRO was vulnerable to the club mentality at KA. It's false economy too without going into details here with the morale and mental state I'm observing with line guys and rostering.

On longevity and Oz, Queensland sunshine is a big killer too BTW. Get a big dose of that in your childhood and look out. Underpants is on the mark too.
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Old 15th Dec 2016, 22:31
  #52 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
Don't be an *#s. The facts you just stated are solely due to the management once again treating their own employees with contempt. It's disgusting to see what is now the established protocols, but it is entirely the doing of management, NOT the AOA.
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Old 15th Dec 2016, 23:17
  #53 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 98
Please explain the free seat on CX Anotherday. I think you are mistaken.
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Old 16th Dec 2016, 00:10
  #54 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
Another day is correct. Many of the Dragon Air pilots still have travel accounts (cash in a separate fund each year) , so effectively their staff travel tickets on CX are 'free'. Nice to know how much our management respects us don't you think?
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Old 16th Dec 2016, 03:28
  #55 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 367
Dan buster this should never have been given the approval from the AOA. So by tacitly accepting the status quo they have by default endorsed the situation
oriental flyer is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2016, 08:16
  #56 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: VHHH Ocean 2D
Posts: 726
I'm surprised you AOA ass lickers aren't coming out with "at least we now get Pri25 flights on flights to Wuzhou" arguments.

AOA are there to protect our rights. They did absolutely nothing about it.
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Old 16th Dec 2016, 09:35
  #57 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 355
Betpump, exactly what rights do you think we have wrt staff travel? I don't like it any more than you, but to blame our union for the company's actions in this respect is asinine.
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Old 16th Dec 2016, 12:59
  #58 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 26
Another Day,

So commuting just got a whole lot easier for KA staff did it? Not if you commute to Phuket. You do have a rather biased view of things. The travel fund is part of the Expat B contract and it was there because years ago pilots wouldn't come to Hong Kong without it. Same goes for the housing allowance. Just parts of a contract to get pilots to Hong Kong and KEEP them here.
Maybe you should have joined KA?
We have always had staff travel agreements with airlines like BA so not sure where you are getting your info from.
What an odd post though....'they have to pay full fare to get out of Asia'. No we don't.
I've often fly from Hong Kong to other Asian ports on staff travel to head to Europe if direct flights are busy, I just go where the seats are. Did it many times before CX bought us.
If it's looking really busy and chances of getting on are poor I'll buy a know, like everybody else does.
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Old 17th Dec 2016, 01:00
  #59 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,796
GMEDX, KA has a travel fund because they are a regional airline without a staff travel arrangement with reasonable priority on other airlines. They need to buy full fare tickets to get out of Asia. That's what the cash travel fund is for. Now they get staff tickets on CX with their KA priority and don't have to pay full fare to get out of Asia.
A percentage of the travel fund has been taken way making KA B Scale pilots the only employees in the group to have their pockets raided. Those that chose not to sign over, have the whole work force leap ahead of them in my understanding.

The surviving components of the original travel fund concept was far more expansive than your argument of convenience. It's a contractual arrangement and you could dive on the Titanic or check out in a Russian tank; may sound odd but KA has always been vulnerable to rapid attrition of experience. Perhaps some of the older KA guys could elaborate on this contractual travel benefit though we were always told at a management level to use the fund to recuperate. Sure, it's a dated concept, though a contractual one.

About the dumbest thing CX pilots could wish for is to cheapen their replacements. What's happening now, the transferring of as much regional flying to KA, is an unimaginative expansion though it falls under the " I told you so " banner when KA taken over. There's as much of your regional flying and rumored slightly beyond as we can take.

KA is small and thus efficient. Our command training a dogs breakfast six months ago though their seems a rapid reversal including lessons in recruitment on how to get guys to upgrade inside of 18 months on a pretty rigid course. The old issue of rapid attrition could undo these new-found efficiencies - more Captains are on their way out of KA than have left CX this financial year, some new upgrades are already looking and some local captains seem ruffled by the new free for all day one of sim which will have unpredictable consequences. But KA is rapidly being able to mold itself into what CX needs on the day- real smart to want an organization rapidly learning, to train significantly cheaper pilots including fast upgrade programs for cadets and refining the MPL to have much cheaper pilots than yourself.

So getting on PPRuNe and slagging off at KA pilots' contract is more of the race to the bottom mentality. It will be easy to sponsor by management through the stupidity of the legacy mentality of their staff who need more than a hat to feel a needy superiority. It will be interesting to see if the attrition and burn-out of KA pilots counter-weighs the self-immolation attitude of some CX pilots. Though I have to say, some of the posters here you can smell the BS, they promote themselves as radicals, deride their union, yet appear to be fed by management.

There's no such entity as Dragonair or whatever the new name is. I've worked for airlines owned by other airlines and the KA-CX relationship has been promoted as being independent or hands-off though it has always been centralized. Everything at KA House is CX. All the staff bar aircrew/cabin crew. It's everything- I wanted to correct an ASR of late and I had to go to CX to find it. Operational independence? Oh I wish, they even try to make us fly like you now and it's only that a few of our destinations are circling reliant that visual flying isn't out the door and power off descents labelled as sporty by a seconded CX pilot a few years ago.
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Old 17th Dec 2016, 01:24
  #60 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
Gnadenburg. My/our issue isn't with the KA pilots. It's entirely with our management, and the utter contempt that this change represents to the CX pilots and their families. There isn't another airline in the world that I can think of that allows a situation where pilots from another airline (and their families!) can bump off a pilot from that airline ahead of that airlines own pilots and families. It is insane to think that the 3000+ CX pilots will consider that fair or reasonable. I don't want you to lose your travel account, I want to have the same benefit (I did at one time, but CX manipulated that away). I think that you guys should have the benefit of traveling on CX, but at a lower priority, and we should have the same arrangement at KA. What you will now have is an ever increasing fury of CX pilots seeing themselves bumped off full flights while you and your colleagues and their families get on ahead of us. An objective view of that would suggest that there is nothing 'fair' about that. It is simply a way of our management once again showing their contempt for us, and degrading what was already a pathetic and costly staff travel system.
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