The New deal
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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The New deal
Not really great but will we get any better? Too many caveats and "visit later" issues. Sneaking in "R" permanently now is no good but then again, no matter what, you can always call in unfit. The Reserve thing really bothers me as I hate Reserve and do not think it should be for everyone all the time. They abuse it a lot. The J/F class thing again is worded poorly.
I would like to have the level 1/2/3 sickness policy rescinded before we vote. I think we give up more than we get personally and allow them to do pretty much whatever they want. As in the past, agreements always get violated and we can file grievances, which get turned down, or file lawsuits which drain resources.
If the GC says yes then I guess I will say yes. I am not sure what I would do on my own but probably no. We know what housing will look like in the next few years. I also would like the pass travel system fixed and the priority system fixed. Again, CC was about RPs, NOT anything else. I thank the GC and NC and President but think we may be getting duped UHGAIN!
I am not sure what will happen if it gets voted down but like RP 04 and RP 07, somehow it will pass! For what it's worth, talking to colleagues around the world, nothing is perfect and we are about level in some respects, behind in some and ahead in a few.
In summary, The "R" system is bad, still 30 days. The Pass travel system is still atrocious. Housing is being eroded. The RPs still gives the company a lot of leeway. The pay rise, including; day off pay and swaps is low. The new fangled computer bid system will be meaningless as they will still be able to "adjust" your roster if we sign the deal. The rest is just words.
Discuss and please lets keep it civilized.
.
I would like to have the level 1/2/3 sickness policy rescinded before we vote. I think we give up more than we get personally and allow them to do pretty much whatever they want. As in the past, agreements always get violated and we can file grievances, which get turned down, or file lawsuits which drain resources.
If the GC says yes then I guess I will say yes. I am not sure what I would do on my own but probably no. We know what housing will look like in the next few years. I also would like the pass travel system fixed and the priority system fixed. Again, CC was about RPs, NOT anything else. I thank the GC and NC and President but think we may be getting duped UHGAIN!
I am not sure what will happen if it gets voted down but like RP 04 and RP 07, somehow it will pass! For what it's worth, talking to colleagues around the world, nothing is perfect and we are about level in some respects, behind in some and ahead in a few.
In summary, The "R" system is bad, still 30 days. The Pass travel system is still atrocious. Housing is being eroded. The RPs still gives the company a lot of leeway. The pay rise, including; day off pay and swaps is low. The new fangled computer bid system will be meaningless as they will still be able to "adjust" your roster if we sign the deal. The rest is just words.
Discuss and please lets keep it civilized.
.
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My personal "wish list" includes a TRIP rig and a DUTY rig.
The split duty, TPE and MNL stuff should be compensated at a minimum of 8 hrs IMHO.
Reserve should be down the seniority. JFO and JR CN should do the reserve blocks. I've paid my dues for a stable roster.
The rest - meh.
The split duty, TPE and MNL stuff should be compensated at a minimum of 8 hrs IMHO.
Reserve should be down the seniority. JFO and JR CN should do the reserve blocks. I've paid my dues for a stable roster.
The rest - meh.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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At first I was thinking, "ok, we've been in industrial action 18 months, and we've now got a contract". Now, I am in agreement with Dan Buster: if it doesn't address ALL the issues, if it still contains loose language, if it pits one group against the other, then I am not signing. Happy to NOT join training, happy to keep going with CC until we DO receive a contract that is worthy of our commitment to the long term success of the airline. If all it does is push us further away from achieving proper industry standard terms and conditions, then our management need to be shown that that is not acceptable. I'll review it when it is presented. Then i'll make my decision.
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Oval3Holer.
Perfect.
The brush wingers get their HKPA.
The company loses all leverage.
We continue industrial action for a decent 21st century rostering system and legal action against RP15 as per the members initial mandate.
Perfect.
The brush wingers get their HKPA.
The company loses all leverage.
We continue industrial action for a decent 21st century rostering system and legal action against RP15 as per the members initial mandate.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Ja PERFECT, we keep our leverage as they continue to find it hard to train recruit and grow.
Stay professional, focused & unified in our resolve to up route the mind less bulling from the 9th floor and above.
Way to many loose words which will with certainly be abused from now until 2019.
If we let our foot off the pedal now and succum to this we toast.
When you decide to over take, keep the pressure on the gas till you well clear.
We are far from out of the woods and their empty promises. This trive has so many holes. It's no wonder the GC was trying its best and holding it off in vain to try improve the wording. All while Crispy Creams were sold out, from 9th floor jubilation.
Please guys we are professionals, lets show we deserve better.
90% + NO. While supporting the AOA and Union and fellow members in our resolve.
Ingore those many management trolls coming on here with XYZ fallacies ..
Stay professional, focused & unified in our resolve to up route the mind less bulling from the 9th floor and above.
Way to many loose words which will with certainly be abused from now until 2019.
If we let our foot off the pedal now and succum to this we toast.
When you decide to over take, keep the pressure on the gas till you well clear.
We are far from out of the woods and their empty promises. This trive has so many holes. It's no wonder the GC was trying its best and holding it off in vain to try improve the wording. All while Crispy Creams were sold out, from 9th floor jubilation.
Please guys we are professionals, lets show we deserve better.
90% + NO. While supporting the AOA and Union and fellow members in our resolve.
Ingore those many management trolls coming on here with XYZ fallacies ..
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Sorry but it's just not good enough. Thank you to our negotiators that put so much effort into this, and I'm sure it was the best deal you could get at this time, but that still doesn't mean it's acceptable. We have given up so much to get here, lets not give it all away now on a deal that's not worthy.
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It's a NO from me. A few minor gains but the wording is far to loose. This was never about money but unfortunately Cx have used it to try and swing the vote. Considering we have had two big hits this year with the KA date of joining for staff travel and Absence Management Program imposed on us it is all rather disappointing.
Many thanks to the negotiating committee. It can't have been easy. Stay the course !!
The Cav
Many thanks to the negotiating committee. It can't have been easy. Stay the course !!
The Cav
Last edited by Cavallier; 23rd Jun 2016 at 04:04.
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At first glance, its focused on HKPA.... No surprise! That alone will get a big majority of votes.... half way there already!
The rest is very wishy washy. Or, meh!
As usual small gains for a big cost. ( no surprise again)
I think I can hear the fat lady singing regardless of those saying NO on this forum.
I think most will say YES, because they cant be bothered any more. YES, because its not that bad and they just want it all over. YES because how many times can you say NO.
If NO is the result will there be repercussions..... YES, big time! Will you wish you said YES.... probably.
If YES is the result will there be repercussions.... YES, maybe not as much as saying NO, but probably. Will you wonder what will have happened if the result was NO...... probably.
Good Luck!
The rest is very wishy washy. Or, meh!
As usual small gains for a big cost. ( no surprise again)
I think I can hear the fat lady singing regardless of those saying NO on this forum.
I think most will say YES, because they cant be bothered any more. YES, because its not that bad and they just want it all over. YES because how many times can you say NO.
If NO is the result will there be repercussions..... YES, big time! Will you wish you said YES.... probably.
If YES is the result will there be repercussions.... YES, maybe not as much as saying NO, but probably. Will you wonder what will have happened if the result was NO...... probably.
Good Luck!
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Par for the course.
An improvement (but far short of what it should be) for the majority.
The rest is a pittance of what has been taken away or promised long ago.
A sincere thanks to the NC.
An improvement (but far short of what it should be) for the majority.
The rest is a pittance of what has been taken away or promised long ago.
A sincere thanks to the NC.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Not good enough, not by a long shot. When the TA barely gets past the GC by one vote, you have to man up and send them packing. This deal is a farce. I want to come out of CC and the TB as much as anybody, but this is not what we have been fighting for all this time. CX gets everything they want and need, and all they have to do is open their wallets a tiny bit. If you cadets fall for this, you are as dumb as all the expats accuse you of being, not that we are much better. The decay has to stop! This deal simply kicks the can down the road. You all know better!!!
95% of HKPA recipients will vote Yes to this deal. Based on current membership demographics, it will take 80% of non HKPA's to vote No. We are doomed!
Why the bloody hell did the GC/NC allow all these issues to be rolled into a single vote?
Why the bloody hell did the GC/NC allow all these issues to be rolled into a single vote?
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95%?
No, they won't. The majority I speak to don't want to vote yes, because it's accepting and giving credibility to a poor deal.
What the majority of people will do, however, is vote as per the GC recommendation.
I'm not a fan, though.
No, they won't. The majority I speak to don't want to vote yes, because it's accepting and giving credibility to a poor deal.
What the majority of people will do, however, is vote as per the GC recommendation.
I'm not a fan, though.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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This deal is a complete joke. There's absolutely no improvment to the big rostering issues that is meant to bring stability and control to our lives, especially for those on the grueling regional roster. It's as if rostering was a mere side issue to pay and HKPA. I knew was going to be bad, didn't realize it would be this bad.
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Totally agree. This is more like an annual negotiation gone wrong rather than something that is meant to a significant improvement to our working conditions:
HKPA: The biggest benefit put in there as a bribe to get the rest of the rubbish over the line. Still very low ball and should not be considered. No indexing.
Rostering: Barely any improvement to an abominable Rostering Practices Agreement. Loose terms, free Reserve, free G days ('disruption')...need I go on. Total rubbish.
ARAPA: Where is the 25 years WITHOUT an end date of 2020? This was promised years ago and they are still failing to live up to their obligation.
Pay: What can I say? Less than forecast CPI. A formula to ensure we never actually reach CPI. Reduction in purchasing value to 2021, so a PAY DECREASE in real terms.
I respect the hard work of the NC, however, this is the best they could do with a cunning and nasty employer. It therefore behoves us to throw this back at the Company and say 'sorry, this is not an improvement that warrants our support. Therefore status quo with CC and TB until you come back with a sensible offer'.
Anyone who votes for this needs to go see a professional. If you are on HKPA and all you can see are a few $, then remember that for this minor gain you will be subjected to fatigue and loss of lifestyle rostering, plus a reduction in your salary purchasing value for many years to come. Is it worth that?
Just terrible. Definite NO from me.
HKPA: The biggest benefit put in there as a bribe to get the rest of the rubbish over the line. Still very low ball and should not be considered. No indexing.
Rostering: Barely any improvement to an abominable Rostering Practices Agreement. Loose terms, free Reserve, free G days ('disruption')...need I go on. Total rubbish.
ARAPA: Where is the 25 years WITHOUT an end date of 2020? This was promised years ago and they are still failing to live up to their obligation.
Pay: What can I say? Less than forecast CPI. A formula to ensure we never actually reach CPI. Reduction in purchasing value to 2021, so a PAY DECREASE in real terms.
I respect the hard work of the NC, however, this is the best they could do with a cunning and nasty employer. It therefore behoves us to throw this back at the Company and say 'sorry, this is not an improvement that warrants our support. Therefore status quo with CC and TB until you come back with a sensible offer'.
Anyone who votes for this needs to go see a professional. If you are on HKPA and all you can see are a few $, then remember that for this minor gain you will be subjected to fatigue and loss of lifestyle rostering, plus a reduction in your salary purchasing value for many years to come. Is it worth that?
Just terrible. Definite NO from me.
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Sometimes there is a good reason to value pride and integrity over short term gain. Certainly, I value both over threats and intimidation. It's a 'NO'. This deal is not worth my vote. The rest of us will have to make our own decisions, but this is not a worthy agreement. I appreciate all the efforts of the NC. I know that the end result is not their fault, but the fault of a senior management that does not respect or value their most valuable employees. I would rather establish a career elsewhere if I have to. I will not sell my entire future this cheaply.