The New deal
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hong Kong
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Im a B scaler with housing. Im voting no because the HKPA is not string enough for the New guys.
Not indext and too many scales to the top. 20 + years before you reach 40k.
As for the rest, there is nothing to vote for.
Big NO for me!
Not indext and too many scales to the top. 20 + years before you reach 40k.
As for the rest, there is nothing to vote for.
Big NO for me!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: HK
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Oh Mr Fox, you are so short sighted.
The people here with no dog in your fight have been working hard to help you get a better deal THAN WHAT YOU SIGNED UP FOR!!!!?.. Get it?????!!!!!!!!
Take my advice and think about what experience has bought for those in this company here long enough to have been through this rodeo more than once or twice over the years - the most salient point is that the company will never give something for nothing, always stacks the deck in its favour and like the analogy I am referring to "always wins"..... Nobody is ripping you off, we are just trying to wake you guys up and hope that the short sighted gains of magic and mirrors and some sparkle dust will not be enough to distract your lot from the long term pain you will feel when HKPA does not keep up with inflation, and life is not as bright and cheerful as you imagined when you start getting rostered as per the regional fleet/ FTL limits (because it's legal).
I do hope you will project forward your life and see where it will be if you allow all protections to be stripped for minimal short term gain. Even truck drivers in Australia have better fatigue prevention laws than we have flying here. They will maximize you to the limits no doubt, and increase those limits whenever possible. Take care!
The people here with no dog in your fight have been working hard to help you get a better deal THAN WHAT YOU SIGNED UP FOR!!!!?.. Get it?????!!!!!!!!
Take my advice and think about what experience has bought for those in this company here long enough to have been through this rodeo more than once or twice over the years - the most salient point is that the company will never give something for nothing, always stacks the deck in its favour and like the analogy I am referring to "always wins"..... Nobody is ripping you off, we are just trying to wake you guys up and hope that the short sighted gains of magic and mirrors and some sparkle dust will not be enough to distract your lot from the long term pain you will feel when HKPA does not keep up with inflation, and life is not as bright and cheerful as you imagined when you start getting rostered as per the regional fleet/ FTL limits (because it's legal).
I do hope you will project forward your life and see where it will be if you allow all protections to be stripped for minimal short term gain. Even truck drivers in Australia have better fatigue prevention laws than we have flying here. They will maximize you to the limits no doubt, and increase those limits whenever possible. Take care!
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
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If it goes through
Management should write something along these lines.
Thank you for voting yes.
We look forward to this new harmonious relationship, we will immediately open the doors to anyone and everyone who wants to join training as we have a huge training task ahead.
See now we've finally seen that the HKPA muppets, (yes muppets as we know who we hired) have control of the AOA the plan is to train many many more over the next few years and then take away expat terms in a take it or leave it vote.
"I'll leave if they take away expat terms"
We will have trained all your cheaper replacements over the last 3 years so we'd actually prefer if you left.
Thank you and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
I look forward to my bonus.
...........
"What's next on my list Mary"
"Start cutting HKPA and hiring crew not entitled to HKPA"
"Excellent...... Mary add to that list, change HKPA wording to something like housing so it says new joiners don't get housing"
Thank you for voting yes.
We look forward to this new harmonious relationship, we will immediately open the doors to anyone and everyone who wants to join training as we have a huge training task ahead.
See now we've finally seen that the HKPA muppets, (yes muppets as we know who we hired) have control of the AOA the plan is to train many many more over the next few years and then take away expat terms in a take it or leave it vote.
"I'll leave if they take away expat terms"
We will have trained all your cheaper replacements over the last 3 years so we'd actually prefer if you left.
Thank you and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
I look forward to my bonus.
...........
"What's next on my list Mary"
"Start cutting HKPA and hiring crew not entitled to HKPA"
"Excellent...... Mary add to that list, change HKPA wording to something like housing so it says new joiners don't get housing"
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
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That is the GREAT irony Avinthenews. In no time at all, CX will announce that all 'new' joiners will not be entitled to HKPA (the new 'A' scale). If you don't stand up for a proper package now, you only lay the foundations for undermining what little in the way of benefits you presently possess. In this company, you are either moving ahead.....or moving backwards. No one ever stays static. Vote NO.
its£5perworddammit
Join Date: Nov 2003
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So this is not directed at you per se, anotherbusdriver, nor does it mean I am siding with the company by default, but enough with the sanctimonious BS about holding out for a higher HKPA, when it is your own housing floor you are guarding against now at little cost to yourself.
Join Date: Sep 2000
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It makes me physically sick that these to$$ers who have ruined this airline and it's once great terms and conditions will more than likely swing this vote and let it pass.
These w@nkers have taken the crap terms, ruining the careers of the experienced pilots who joined this airline when it still had great potential to provide a rewarding career.
Now they're more than happy to fall over themselves to accept a few quid which will be eroded in a few years by inflation so that they can buy the latest Xbox and perhaps have a few pennies for some hair gel.
LEPs - I spit on you. And I truly hope you have a miserable aviation career; you've truly earned it.
What comes around goes around.
You make me sick.
These w@nkers have taken the crap terms, ruining the careers of the experienced pilots who joined this airline when it still had great potential to provide a rewarding career.
Now they're more than happy to fall over themselves to accept a few quid which will be eroded in a few years by inflation so that they can buy the latest Xbox and perhaps have a few pennies for some hair gel.
LEPs - I spit on you. And I truly hope you have a miserable aviation career; you've truly earned it.
What comes around goes around.
You make me sick.
free nothing
Free reserve really??who the hell would lay down for that??
I see they have clouded the issue of rostering(which is what this is all about)with housing and other items on the periphery!! Crap deal on rosters sweetened with a housing 'deal'. I say NO!! Fix scheduling, fatigue and roster abuse as a stand alone issue and THEN move onto what else ails us...one at a time with no sidetracking or conditions. This has been broken for years and it's what needs to addressed NOW. NO free days!!! Just work days, G days, paid reserve, and leave, that's it!!! Just the the rest of the flying world. They're big boys now so play by the rules...if not then good luck training the next bunch of lemmings.
This 'best we can get' attitude is a load of rubbish.
I see they have clouded the issue of rostering(which is what this is all about)with housing and other items on the periphery!! Crap deal on rosters sweetened with a housing 'deal'. I say NO!! Fix scheduling, fatigue and roster abuse as a stand alone issue and THEN move onto what else ails us...one at a time with no sidetracking or conditions. This has been broken for years and it's what needs to addressed NOW. NO free days!!! Just work days, G days, paid reserve, and leave, that's it!!! Just the the rest of the flying world. They're big boys now so play by the rules...if not then good luck training the next bunch of lemmings.
This 'best we can get' attitude is a load of rubbish.
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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I don't blame the LEP's at all. I blame the AOA leadership! The directive was clear and we have been lied to and cheated with this absolutey horrendous deal. The membership should be doing something about this by not only voting no but recalling this leadership.
The focus night should be interesting. I wonder whom on the NC will show and try and convince us this deal is acceptable. Rod should be in hiding. Really Rod, after all your letters and talk and rhetoric, this is what we are getting? It's like another Cos O8. I'll be showing up with a torch and a trident. I honestly smell corruption on the highest level. How this even came to be is beyond me now.
The leadership AND membership should have stopped this downward slide along time ago. We should have been in CC the day the company told those Insructor Pilots in Adelaide, here is your new deal sign or your fired. WE DID NOTHING! And now here we are. Speaking of which, as of today those IP's STILL do NOT have their seniority fixed? Why, along with a host of other issues, ie; Staff travel and basings, has it not been fixed? Again, I don't blame those LEP's one bit.
Well done NC/GC/Gen Sec and Pres, well done. You have truly lowered the expectations and the bar for everyone. You have lied to us, misrepresented us and have cheated us. I take solice in that you too will have to live with this but maybe promises of special treatment convinced you all to sell us this giant turd.
You're dam right I'm angry now.
The focus night should be interesting. I wonder whom on the NC will show and try and convince us this deal is acceptable. Rod should be in hiding. Really Rod, after all your letters and talk and rhetoric, this is what we are getting? It's like another Cos O8. I'll be showing up with a torch and a trident. I honestly smell corruption on the highest level. How this even came to be is beyond me now.
The leadership AND membership should have stopped this downward slide along time ago. We should have been in CC the day the company told those Insructor Pilots in Adelaide, here is your new deal sign or your fired. WE DID NOTHING! And now here we are. Speaking of which, as of today those IP's STILL do NOT have their seniority fixed? Why, along with a host of other issues, ie; Staff travel and basings, has it not been fixed? Again, I don't blame those LEP's one bit.
Well done NC/GC/Gen Sec and Pres, well done. You have truly lowered the expectations and the bar for everyone. You have lied to us, misrepresented us and have cheated us. I take solice in that you too will have to live with this but maybe promises of special treatment convinced you all to sell us this giant turd.
You're dam right I'm angry now.
Last edited by The Visionary; 29th Jun 2016 at 03:14. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Jul 2005
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The more I look at it the more reasons I find to vote NO.
There simply is no improvment and too many areas of potential abuse in RP.
The HKPA has too many steps in it.
In an essence. We are giving away a position of power for nothing.
Big NO for me.
There simply is no improvment and too many areas of potential abuse in RP.
The HKPA has too many steps in it.
In an essence. We are giving away a position of power for nothing.
Big NO for me.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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These issues should never have been bundled together. I feel the Union has let the membership down here.
The newer HKPA members will only see $$$ as they will not have had the disappointment or frustration of dealing with RP issues for real.
CX has once again played one group off against another and the GC has endorsed it!
I foresee quite a few membership resignations if the YES crowd prevail.
The newer HKPA members will only see $$$ as they will not have had the disappointment or frustration of dealing with RP issues for real.
CX has once again played one group off against another and the GC has endorsed it!
I foresee quite a few membership resignations if the YES crowd prevail.
Well I would have thought the HKAOA is a democracy and you all get an equal VOTE yes or no.
What, now you won't accept the result that your colleagues vote on because you know better than most?
I tend to agree with you that the offer is crap, so get out there and sell your thoughts to your colleagues and stop making stupid threats about spitting the dummy and throwing your toys out of the cot.
You Dan are better than that mate.
Better still, join the GC.
What, now you won't accept the result that your colleagues vote on because you know better than most?
I tend to agree with you that the offer is crap, so get out there and sell your thoughts to your colleagues and stop making stupid threats about spitting the dummy and throwing your toys out of the cot.
You Dan are better than that mate.
Better still, join the GC.
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Except, ACMS, we are basically voting HKPA recipients against the others.
Voting a meagre payraise for some against bad rostering rules for all.
Would the vote be different if it was only about RPs? I bet it would.
Tyranny of the majority.
And without the training ban, it's gonna be even worse next time.
Voting a meagre payraise for some against bad rostering rules for all.
Would the vote be different if it was only about RPs? I bet it would.
Tyranny of the majority.
And without the training ban, it's gonna be even worse next time.
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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Nope, not buying it Dominic. It's a trick. If we sign the deal we get promises without any substance. It's happened too many times before. We need to send the deal back and get, in the very least, MUCH MUCH BETTER WORDING. We allow too much interpretation and it says nothing about renegotiating anything. Too much vagueness and will talk later nonsense. More false promises of the all coveted base slots. They use that one a lot. Then you know what, SIGN A BASINGS DEAL, RIGHT NOW!
That GFBA and RA has been used against us in the biggest way I could have ever imagined and I am not buying it anymore.
VOTE NO!
That GFBA and RA has been used against us in the biggest way I could have ever imagined and I am not buying it anymore.
VOTE NO!
Last edited by The Visionary; 29th Jun 2016 at 14:26. Reason: spelling
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Then go read the side letter to the tentative agreement asking that we talk Europe out of their RPs lawsuit. Well, now we are starting to see the real reasons for this TA. I think it's time to vote and then leave the AOA if it's gets voted in cause I mean damn.