Letter from MH
Join Date: May 2008
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PPSept--that wasn't my take on the letter; i.e. do NOT hurry anything up. Conduct a thorough review of the paperwork just as we normally do, do a thorough preflight and preflight prep just like we normally do.
And it wouldn't matter--as professionals and as licensed professionals this is required of us anyway. Other than skipping the two or three minutes of shaking hands it's bizness as usual. If things are that tight that something we've been doing for years is all of a sudden important to shave a few seconds off it's probably time to take a step back.
Like I said, show up when you're supposed to, do what you've always done, and take it eaaaaaasy. This isn't our concern for our part. Just a few minions running around with pens and paper. Let them do their thing; who cares what they write down or who's to blame for what. Just pretend there's an 'ignore' button like on the internet.
If anything, it's probably time to be a bit MORE thorough in checking things over. When folks get rushed and tired they make mistakes. We have the experience and judgment to know this and avoid external pressures that can make things unsafe. As well as the will, character, and responsibility not to allow a dangerous situation to continue to develop. Not everyone is blessed with this perspective and it's possible others might get suckered in and miss something on the paperwork, in cabin prep, or in fixing the jet.
So the only net effect is maybe have a little closer look at things and take a little extra time to make sure things are right.
And it wouldn't matter--as professionals and as licensed professionals this is required of us anyway. Other than skipping the two or three minutes of shaking hands it's bizness as usual. If things are that tight that something we've been doing for years is all of a sudden important to shave a few seconds off it's probably time to take a step back.
Like I said, show up when you're supposed to, do what you've always done, and take it eaaaaaasy. This isn't our concern for our part. Just a few minions running around with pens and paper. Let them do their thing; who cares what they write down or who's to blame for what. Just pretend there's an 'ignore' button like on the internet.
If anything, it's probably time to be a bit MORE thorough in checking things over. When folks get rushed and tired they make mistakes. We have the experience and judgment to know this and avoid external pressures that can make things unsafe. As well as the will, character, and responsibility not to allow a dangerous situation to continue to develop. Not everyone is blessed with this perspective and it's possible others might get suckered in and miss something on the paperwork, in cabin prep, or in fixing the jet.
So the only net effect is maybe have a little closer look at things and take a little extra time to make sure things are right.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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The subtlety in Mark's message was too much for you meatheads to decipher. Personally I lay the blame squarely at the recruitment Department because I just cannot figure out how a collective bunch of myopic lemmings managed to pass the IQ test.
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I think everyone got the subtlety just fine.
I think the main concern is that after being presented with this drivel and asked to disseminate to the flight crew MH decided to do so then took to yammer where he performed the "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" instead of doing the right thing and just saying NO! from the get go.
That is part of his job description.
I think the main concern is that after being presented with this drivel and asked to disseminate to the flight crew MH decided to do so then took to yammer where he performed the "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" instead of doing the right thing and just saying NO! from the get go.
That is part of his job description.
Nail on the head
Dead right mike hunt... The boys take the queens shilling and irony or not they bat for the other side. We will continue to do the job as professional crew and let the air heads with zero imagination or management skills quibble over OTP and why they dont achieve it. The new loadsheet process is a major culprit.
'We' dont achieve alot these days actually ...reserve coverage, stable rosters, training, customer satisfaction, staff on side,annual leave awarded in the year it's due, positive media coverage, internal communication between depatments, legal success over labour litigation, ability to keep a contractual promise, and im assuming its all the pilot's fault of course!
Let's just write another purile missive and kick the already battle weary crews in the guts.
Oh yes and a hearty slap on the back from ourselves for the " liberian airline managers of the year award" for exceptional largess!!
Now THAT is tongue in cheek!
'We' dont achieve alot these days actually ...reserve coverage, stable rosters, training, customer satisfaction, staff on side,annual leave awarded in the year it's due, positive media coverage, internal communication between depatments, legal success over labour litigation, ability to keep a contractual promise, and im assuming its all the pilot's fault of course!
Let's just write another purile missive and kick the already battle weary crews in the guts.
Oh yes and a hearty slap on the back from ourselves for the " liberian airline managers of the year award" for exceptional largess!!
Now THAT is tongue in cheek!
Join Date: Mar 2000
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I was quite annoyed at first too, but
Just like in a marriage, you've gotta pick you battles.
I think Mark has to do the same in his position, he can't just say no every time, as long as he does it with truly important things.
He already said not to worry about it, ops normal, and he'd have our backs.
No need to get bent out of shape...
Just like in a marriage, you've gotta pick you battles.
I think Mark has to do the same in his position, he can't just say no every time, as long as he does it with truly important things.
He already said not to worry about it, ops normal, and he'd have our backs.
No need to get bent out of shape...
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Marks humour is just too subtle for most of us, but be in no doubt...it was meant as humour. He is telling us all we need to know about his opinion of the 9th floor. I'm happy to take his 'read between the lines' advice. Watch the muther burn...
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I agree with all the sentiments expressed here, having felt pretty angry when the letter first came out but then seeing that MH is doing a delicate dance between communicating his real thoughts to us and being seen to do the right thing by those above.
But also, if anyone reports the crew for causing a delay and someone 'important' wanted to investigate a particular flight, would the minion's report not lead them to the CAR which would then tell the real story? In reality who reads the CARs or any other report anyway?
So things are exactly as they've always been.
But also, if anyone reports the crew for causing a delay and someone 'important' wanted to investigate a particular flight, would the minion's report not lead them to the CAR which would then tell the real story? In reality who reads the CARs or any other report anyway?
So things are exactly as they've always been.
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I just cannot figure out how a collective bunch of myopic lemmings managed to pass the IQ test.
There is no subtlety in any official notice from management. He might not agree with the idea and may have alluded to that fact reading between the lines, but the notice is out. If someone higher than MH wants to crucify you for not following the directives in the notice, you can't exactly go and hide behind MH with the delusional notion that he's going to protect you, because I can assure he won't.
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would the minion's report not lead them to the CAR which would then tell the real story?
The ground staff always blames the flight crew for any delays. Now CX is giving them the means to make it official.
You can endear yourself to MH's cute little political dance all you want, but at the end of the day, names will be taken, lists will be made, and when tea/no biccies time comes, make no mistake as to which way he'll weathervane...
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Flap 10. Grow a pair. How exactly can they 'crucify' you? I am the Captain, and I will GO when i'm READY. I have a RESPONSIBILITY (legal) to carefully, thoroughly and judgmentally review the paperwork and then make decisions regarding the flight planning. NO manager can interfere with that. That is what MH is saying to us. You seem pretty scared and intimidated. Perhaps you should see the Dr and get a few weeks off... You too Marinero. Pathetic.
Join Date: May 2008
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OH NO Yonosoy.....not another LIST !
Good heavens.
I guess that'll just have to be tagged on to the all the other LISTS folks might have me on somewhere...CIA, MSS, FSS, KGB, DHS, CBP, FEMA, MI6, SHISH, ASIO, BND, SSD, NZSIS, NJC, and CISEN.
As far as getting 'called in' might I suggest some solace in the following line to relieve you of your perennial state of worry:
"I guess I'm just slow."
See, now THAT wasn't so hard was it ?
Good heavens.
I guess that'll just have to be tagged on to the all the other LISTS folks might have me on somewhere...CIA, MSS, FSS, KGB, DHS, CBP, FEMA, MI6, SHISH, ASIO, BND, SSD, NZSIS, NJC, and CISEN.
As far as getting 'called in' might I suggest some solace in the following line to relieve you of your perennial state of worry:
"I guess I'm just slow."
See, now THAT wasn't so hard was it ?
Join Date: Aug 2006
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After having a quiet chuckle at MH's email, I don't know whether to laugh or despair at some of the reaction to it. What I do think is some of you need to brush up on John Warham's books.
You work in Asia for an Asian airline that Swire have a management contract for.
Everything is noted, recorded and filed. Always has been. Always will be.
There are 3 rules that everyone in Asia abides by;
1. Cover your ass.
2. Don't lose face.
3. Dob in a colleague. (See rule 1)
The pushback/arrival time has always been recorded seperately and independently by the;
Flight crew
ISM
Engineer
Ground staff
With a supporting report if they feel it's necessary. I don't tell the ground staff what delay code I use. Nor the ISM. Nor the engineer.
They use whatever code and write whatever report they like. As do I. It's been this way since Adam was a kid.
The ground staff and ISD can amend policy as they see fit providing it has no impact on FOP, as is the case this time. This isn't a NTC or OMPA amendment. It's an email. Delete it if you're that paranoid. However, many of us appreciated the subtle message that the silo empires that make up cx are infighting and the tacit pat on the back for our current industrial campaign.
You work in Asia for an Asian airline that Swire have a management contract for.
Everything is noted, recorded and filed. Always has been. Always will be.
There are 3 rules that everyone in Asia abides by;
1. Cover your ass.
2. Don't lose face.
3. Dob in a colleague. (See rule 1)
The pushback/arrival time has always been recorded seperately and independently by the;
Flight crew
ISM
Engineer
Ground staff
With a supporting report if they feel it's necessary. I don't tell the ground staff what delay code I use. Nor the ISM. Nor the engineer.
They use whatever code and write whatever report they like. As do I. It's been this way since Adam was a kid.
The ground staff and ISD can amend policy as they see fit providing it has no impact on FOP, as is the case this time. This isn't a NTC or OMPA amendment. It's an email. Delete it if you're that paranoid. However, many of us appreciated the subtle message that the silo empires that make up cx are infighting and the tacit pat on the back for our current industrial campaign.
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Perhaps this is all a big ploy to see if the ACARS off blocks time matches the time the HAS guy says the plane moved. We all knew something was coming in this regard.
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If the park brake is released significantly prior to aircraft movement then no, the CAR won't correlate with the ISM report or the ground staff report.
This has always been the case. Nothing new here.
This has always been the case. Nothing new here.
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I don't know what's worse?
I don't know what's worse? The holier than thou arrogant morons who come here proclaiming that they can read between the lines and can see the subtlety in MH's letter, or those that actually believe that MH's "Nod and Wink" method makes him "a good guy".
When are you fools going to learn that NO ONE on the third floor is your friend. The Jellyfish is not your friend, the 777 CP that the Boeing boys rave about is not your friend, the "he isn't so bad" GH is not your friend.
A bunch of C&T wrote a letter to management stating their concerns. You think our fleet managers would ever do the same? The moment they take a job in the fleet office, they raise their hand and vow to tow the company line, losing friends and respect from their colleagues is the sacrifice they make.
The fact that MH doesn't believe a word in his email is neither here nor there. Any credibility I had left for him was lost the moment he tried to defend himself on Yammer. He should have just shut his mouth. No one has a gun to his head. No one in the fleet office has a gun to their head. They chose the management path and they deserve the backlash that comes with it.
When are you fools going to learn that NO ONE on the third floor is your friend. The Jellyfish is not your friend, the 777 CP that the Boeing boys rave about is not your friend, the "he isn't so bad" GH is not your friend.
A bunch of C&T wrote a letter to management stating their concerns. You think our fleet managers would ever do the same? The moment they take a job in the fleet office, they raise their hand and vow to tow the company line, losing friends and respect from their colleagues is the sacrifice they make.
The fact that MH doesn't believe a word in his email is neither here nor there. Any credibility I had left for him was lost the moment he tried to defend himself on Yammer. He should have just shut his mouth. No one has a gun to his head. No one in the fleet office has a gun to their head. They chose the management path and they deserve the backlash that comes with it.
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Agree 100%! I'm sick of the smug types that claim they can read between the lines in the email/yammer response but I would ask them, do you think anything is actually going to change even though you naively think he's on our side? It's like everything in this place, it's style over substance.
Last edited by Threethirty; 30th Sep 2015 at 14:42.
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I'm far too dense to read behind the lines unless it's really really obvious.
Or funny.
But that's me.
Then again, I've never worried much about letters, articles, or things teachers might put in my "permanent record." At the end of the day if the radio is playing something I don't like I can usually find the off switch. And then I'm happy again.
Or funny.
But that's me.
Then again, I've never worried much about letters, articles, or things teachers might put in my "permanent record." At the end of the day if the radio is playing something I don't like I can usually find the off switch. And then I'm happy again.