KA 330 Penang
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One silly question if I may; why did you raise the point in the first place if the approach and landing you witnessed was a non-event?
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Political Correctness, pilot bashing and a firm touchdown
Don't dismiss the valid point made by airbusdriver to the bin because of political correctness fatigue. It's not. He's obviously frustrated with the loathsome habit of pilots to assign poor landings, global warming and the Greek debt crisis to females, locals & MPL's. Heaven forbid should any poor soul hit all three in the trifecta!
I'm sick of people jumping onto the "it's cos she's a she/local/whatever" bandwagon. And of course if HE'S not, he just had a bad day! "Could happen to anyone".
Look at a recent thread about Kenny Chiang. The very same people that moan that locals can't fly, locals have no passion for aviation etc immediately cut this guy down. For flipping an aircraft ass over tit more times in a day than you've landed in a year! Who cares if Daddy's got coin and funded his passion. He's out there, doing it.
When's the last time you've slapped USD$10k down on the table to fly for FUN! For the challenge. For the reward. No, doing is not your thing. Going out and achieving doesn't float your boat. Getting calluses on thumb & forefinger from knob fiddling is your lot. You prefer the drull monotony that is airline flying. To mock from the arrogant cocoon that is your repetitive, high speed, high tonnage, sheetmetal-working Groundhog Day. Wine glass in hand, the flicker of your friends on pprune on your computer screen, illuminating the room.
The sooner you arrogant, sexist, homophobic, racist pricks die out the better. Perhaps then the professional could be put into 'professionalism' with regard to our industry. Putting an end to the ill-informed, lay the boot in, devour your own drivel that has filled this thread. (Not an MPL, not a write off, no popped rivets, no damage whatsoever other than a G & attitude that exceeded design limitations and necessitates a new set of legs btw).
Show me an Airbus CM1 that doesn't acknowledge the vulnerability of being PNF with only reactive cues to make takeover decisions by and I'll eat my hat.
I'm sick of people jumping onto the "it's cos she's a she/local/whatever" bandwagon. And of course if HE'S not, he just had a bad day! "Could happen to anyone".
Look at a recent thread about Kenny Chiang. The very same people that moan that locals can't fly, locals have no passion for aviation etc immediately cut this guy down. For flipping an aircraft ass over tit more times in a day than you've landed in a year! Who cares if Daddy's got coin and funded his passion. He's out there, doing it.
When's the last time you've slapped USD$10k down on the table to fly for FUN! For the challenge. For the reward. No, doing is not your thing. Going out and achieving doesn't float your boat. Getting calluses on thumb & forefinger from knob fiddling is your lot. You prefer the drull monotony that is airline flying. To mock from the arrogant cocoon that is your repetitive, high speed, high tonnage, sheetmetal-working Groundhog Day. Wine glass in hand, the flicker of your friends on pprune on your computer screen, illuminating the room.
The sooner you arrogant, sexist, homophobic, racist pricks die out the better. Perhaps then the professional could be put into 'professionalism' with regard to our industry. Putting an end to the ill-informed, lay the boot in, devour your own drivel that has filled this thread. (Not an MPL, not a write off, no popped rivets, no damage whatsoever other than a G & attitude that exceeded design limitations and necessitates a new set of legs btw).
Show me an Airbus CM1 that doesn't acknowledge the vulnerability of being PNF with only reactive cues to make takeover decisions by and I'll eat my hat.
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Funny how many are eager to point out the gender and race of the drivers, but not the weather conditions...
They were s#!t, and it was raining frogs and snakes when they landed.
Landing 1045Z:
WMKP 161100Z 31007G17KT 4000 -TSRA FEW008 FEW017CB SCT023 OVC250 23/21 Q1006 TEMPO 5000 -TSRA
WMKP 161030Z 21006KT 5000 HZ FEW010 BKN140 BKN270 28/24 Q1006 TEMPO 5000 RA
Oh, and CX made the news again:
Incident: Cathay A343 at Auckland on Sep 19th 2015, rejected takeoff twice due to engine problem
Can't be good for publicity.
They were s#!t, and it was raining frogs and snakes when they landed.
Landing 1045Z:
WMKP 161100Z 31007G17KT 4000 -TSRA FEW008 FEW017CB SCT023 OVC250 23/21 Q1006 TEMPO 5000 -TSRA
WMKP 161030Z 21006KT 5000 HZ FEW010 BKN140 BKN270 28/24 Q1006 TEMPO 5000 RA
Oh, and CX made the news again:
Incident: Cathay A343 at Auckland on Sep 19th 2015, rejected takeoff twice due to engine problem
Can't be good for publicity.
The sex of the first officer, who allegedly is the person being pointed at, has nothing to do with it. Neither has race or religion.
If you start pointing fingers at people who are in a tiny minority (less than 2% I would guess), you are doing it to either abuse the data privacy laws; or trying to make a point that certain demographics are of a lesser calibre based purely on their sex, colour, race or religion - this is in fact illegal. It highlights your personal bias, and discrimination you feel towards that demographic. Especially when it has absolutely nothing to do with what happened.
And to be perfectly clear, I am calling you a sexist.
I am not disputing your arguments about experience levels, sectors available, or your argument regarding prior training/ experience before KA. My comment is about the fact that there is no need, except to be malicious, that you have highlighted and continue to point out the sex of this particular pilot, when there is no operational difference between a male or a female of similar backgrounds in any case.
If you start pointing fingers at people who are in a tiny minority (less than 2% I would guess), you are doing it to either abuse the data privacy laws; or trying to make a point that certain demographics are of a lesser calibre based purely on their sex, colour, race or religion - this is in fact illegal. It highlights your personal bias, and discrimination you feel towards that demographic. Especially when it has absolutely nothing to do with what happened.
And to be perfectly clear, I am calling you a sexist.
I am not disputing your arguments about experience levels, sectors available, or your argument regarding prior training/ experience before KA. My comment is about the fact that there is no need, except to be malicious, that you have highlighted and continue to point out the sex of this particular pilot, when there is no operational difference between a male or a female of similar backgrounds in any case.
And it contributes to the race to the bottom as the System is defended by hollow professionals caught in a simple rant instead of presenting and delivering the deficiencies at play. Which granted, is not easy.
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Anotherbusdriver is correct. The ONLY discuss-able fact is the experience level. Any other metric is irrelevant. Let's not score an 'own goal' with this. Remember who the real enemy is.
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I also said it is irrelevant!
You said it was illegal ! I dispute your posit that it is illegal .
. Seems to suggest that the MPL rumour is relevant , but perhaps it is my lack of education
Irrelevant or not , it is not illegal to say it was a female flying . Perhaps we should say it was a wholly owned subsidiary of Cathay Pacific aircraft !! Is that illegal also ?
It was a female flying as PF that crash landed the ship. Public Fact .
It is a free rumour network . You don't get to decide what is relevant or not , you do have your opinion and so do I .
You seem to have a part time career in law ..defame ..guess you would have to identify yourself , wouldn't you ? Or will Airbusdriver bring on the suit ? You display an intolerance towards and decry views which differ from what you would choose to discuss and attempt to control their freedom to discuss facts which are in the public domain . Check out the definition , apparently I am not as educated as you are . I also said that I guess you get to choose what is bigoted ? So I will speak SLOWLY here also . The view that MPL rumour is enough and anything else is irrelevant, IS a bigoted view !
I love the internet though ..history is a b***h .
http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...ml#post8851389
Post 29 , guess you know for a fact here that with ref to Air Asia , inexperience ( extremely inexperienced f/o at the controls) was a factor and it was a handling accident , way back on Feb 3 , with the final report still pending .
So to get back to the thread .
1) PF was female .
2) PM was male (Capt)
3) Dragonair A330
4) Owned subsidiary of Cathay Pacific.
5) 2.8+ G 'landing' .
6) Aircraft grounded pending...??
7) Airport - PEN
Not suggesting any cause , just shooting the breeze .
You said it was illegal ! I dispute your posit that it is illegal .
MPL rumour is enough. Highlighting anything else is irrelevant and illegal.*
Irrelevant or not , it is not illegal to say it was a female flying . Perhaps we should say it was a wholly owned subsidiary of Cathay Pacific aircraft !! Is that illegal also ?
It was a female flying as PF that crash landed the ship. Public Fact .
It is a free rumour network . You don't get to decide what is relevant or not , you do have your opinion and so do I .
You seem to have a part time career in law ..defame ..guess you would have to identify yourself , wouldn't you ? Or will Airbusdriver bring on the suit ? You display an intolerance towards and decry views which differ from what you would choose to discuss and attempt to control their freedom to discuss facts which are in the public domain . Check out the definition , apparently I am not as educated as you are . I also said that I guess you get to choose what is bigoted ? So I will speak SLOWLY here also . The view that MPL rumour is enough and anything else is irrelevant, IS a bigoted view !
I love the internet though ..history is a b***h .
http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...ml#post8851389
Post 29 , guess you know for a fact here that with ref to Air Asia , inexperience ( extremely inexperienced f/o at the controls) was a factor and it was a handling accident , way back on Feb 3 , with the final report still pending .
So to get back to the thread .
1) PF was female .
2) PM was male (Capt)
3) Dragonair A330
4) Owned subsidiary of Cathay Pacific.
5) 2.8+ G 'landing' .
6) Aircraft grounded pending...??
7) Airport - PEN
Not suggesting any cause , just shooting the breeze .
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Maybe a stupid question but............. why, given the experience level of the genderless, faceless, agnostic PF in the right seat did the (presumably) more experienced PM in the left seat - you know, the one who signed for the jet - give the landing away or, more to the point NOT give the landing away in those conditions?
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Now had you said that it was a shambles or you felt unsafe then, albeit on a rumour forum, your argument might have had more credibility. As it stands, your post rather defeated your own argument in that in an attempt to highlight the experience level in the flight deck (and presumably your position that lots of experience = good pilot and low experience = bad pilot) all you did was illustrate the ability of the crew, which in turn will be seen by some to reflect the standards maintained by the airline.
Thanks for reminding me to have a pinch of salt ready with the biscuits.
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Taxi drivers, spent their whole working life driving a car. Sorry but political correctness aside, race does play a role. Black people can run short and long distances better, white people can swim better, asians play badminton better. It should not preclude employment, but it is not irrelevant.
I think we all understand that the experience level may possibly have been a contributing factor. When the hard facts are released, we can make more enlightened reasoning.
In the meantime, the Boeing vs Airbus dogma being thrown about is about as relevant as the boorish racial comments.
With over a decade of JFO training on both aircraft types [ie more than 10 yrs on each] I can say both have their particular challenges. As an example, while the takeover decision is more aircraft trajectory driven on the Airbus, the actual takeover of control has always - in my experience - been much cleaner and defined. Simple as pushing a button.
As a footnote, the technique of 'assisting' another pilot on the controls without a positive takeover is potentially hazardous. Techniques such as this are shunned by all professional training organisations.
In the meantime, the Boeing vs Airbus dogma being thrown about is about as relevant as the boorish racial comments.
With over a decade of JFO training on both aircraft types [ie more than 10 yrs on each] I can say both have their particular challenges. As an example, while the takeover decision is more aircraft trajectory driven on the Airbus, the actual takeover of control has always - in my experience - been much cleaner and defined. Simple as pushing a button.
As a footnote, the technique of 'assisting' another pilot on the controls without a positive takeover is potentially hazardous. Techniques such as this are shunned by all professional training organisations.
Last edited by spleener; 25th Sep 2015 at 11:00. Reason: poor spelling!
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Somebody has clearly abused the data privacy laws to gain knowledge of the crew involved. Then published that knowledge on a public forum. Whether actual names are used, or whether you name by a process of elimination, it matters not.
How would you feel if the author wrote: "western, male Capt with green hair from Antarctica"?
Or do you think the abuse is OK as long as it is general, and who decides where the line is drawn?
Not feeding the trolls, just sick of the ugliness of the secret glee some people get from seeing others (Chines, gays, women, whatever...) fail.
How would you feel if the author wrote: "western, male Capt with green hair from Antarctica"?
Or do you think the abuse is OK as long as it is general, and who decides where the line is drawn?
Not feeding the trolls, just sick of the ugliness of the secret glee some people get from seeing others (Chines, gays, women, whatever...) fail.
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Not sure about data privacy laws, maybe they just looked at the roster? Freely available for anyone in the company to browse through.
No damage found according to one of the bosses in an email to everyone. Great news, hope to see the jet and the crew back on line soon.
Those weather conditions (on the metar) are within FO limits, its not like CX, we mostly do one for one sector wise, in fact you will attract heat from above if you don't.
We are paid and hopefully trained to operate these jets to the limits printed on the box, that weather (and we have only seen the metar, not the the actual wx on the FDR at the time of touchdown...) if the weather was the same as the metar, it was nowhere near the limits of the jet, or the crew.
Might be a case of "there but for the grace of god" gents. Sometimes pays to wait for the video ref to view the tapes before blowing the whistle.
No damage found according to one of the bosses in an email to everyone. Great news, hope to see the jet and the crew back on line soon.
Those weather conditions (on the metar) are within FO limits, its not like CX, we mostly do one for one sector wise, in fact you will attract heat from above if you don't.
We are paid and hopefully trained to operate these jets to the limits printed on the box, that weather (and we have only seen the metar, not the the actual wx on the FDR at the time of touchdown...) if the weather was the same as the metar, it was nowhere near the limits of the jet, or the crew.
Might be a case of "there but for the grace of god" gents. Sometimes pays to wait for the video ref to view the tapes before blowing the whistle.
Might be a case of "there but for the grace of god" gents.
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Go with coincidence Gnadenburg, not even close to being "connected" just a line driver.
I do however have a lot of respect for the captain involved, and know that if it caught him out, it certainly would have caught out the majority of us.
I also don't want a hull loss on our books, and can't for the life of me imagine why anyone would get a "kick" out of one of us bending one, regardless of who was the unfortunate soul who was flying at the time.
I do however have a lot of respect for the captain involved, and know that if it caught him out, it certainly would have caught out the majority of us.
I also don't want a hull loss on our books, and can't for the life of me imagine why anyone would get a "kick" out of one of us bending one, regardless of who was the unfortunate soul who was flying at the time.