Scab Notice
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Scab Notice
Print this and give it to a scab!
FREE RIDERS CERTIFICATE
I am opposed to all Unions. Therefore, I am opposed to all the benefits
Unions have won through the years: Paid vacations, sick leave, seniority
right, wage increases, pension and insurance plans, safety laws, Workman's
Compensation laws, Social Security, time-and-one-half for overtime in excess
of 8 hour in one work day and 40 hours in one work week, unemployment
benefits and job security.
I refuse to accept any benefits that will be won by Unions and hereby
authorize and direct the Company to withhold the amount of the Union-won
benefits from my pay-check and donate it to Charity, because I do not need
a Union's gains or my co-workers support in any way.
You can address the reverse Signature ______________________________
side, after signing, place stamp
and mail to the Local. Social Security # ________________________
FREE RIDERS CERTIFICATE
I am opposed to all Unions. Therefore, I am opposed to all the benefits
Unions have won through the years: Paid vacations, sick leave, seniority
right, wage increases, pension and insurance plans, safety laws, Workman's
Compensation laws, Social Security, time-and-one-half for overtime in excess
of 8 hour in one work day and 40 hours in one work week, unemployment
benefits and job security.
I refuse to accept any benefits that will be won by Unions and hereby
authorize and direct the Company to withhold the amount of the Union-won
benefits from my pay-check and donate it to Charity, because I do not need
a Union's gains or my co-workers support in any way.
You can address the reverse Signature ______________________________
side, after signing, place stamp
and mail to the Local. Social Security # ________________________
Last edited by bengi25; 21st May 2002 at 01:30.
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What makes a SCAB!!
THE SCAB
After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab.
A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.
When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out.
No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with.
Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself. A scab has not.
Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a
commision in the British army. The scab sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.
Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family and his class.
- attributed to Jack London
After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab.
A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.
When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out.
No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with.
Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself. A scab has not.
Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a
commision in the British army. The scab sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.
Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family and his class.
- attributed to Jack London
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Rather be a scab
Bengi25
why do you expect the potential new guys to fight your battles for you, then insullt those that choose not to, seems to me that you are a spine-less bully.
HOW CAN YOU EXPECT A PILOT TO TORPEDO HIS OR HER CAREER TO SAVE YOU, WHEN YOU WILL NOT, OR ARE NOT PREPARED TO STRIKE TO GET WHAT YOU WANT OUT OF YOUR DISPUTE.
Get your selves a SPINE and fight your own battles, then people might follow YOUR lead.
As for your idiotic post about the power of unions GET REAL!!!
EVER HEARD OF MARKET FORCES
YOU WILL NOT EVEN REFUSE AN UPGRADE
If i am lucky enough to be offered a job at cathay, then I would like to see you bully me!!!!!!
why do you expect the potential new guys to fight your battles for you, then insullt those that choose not to, seems to me that you are a spine-less bully.
HOW CAN YOU EXPECT A PILOT TO TORPEDO HIS OR HER CAREER TO SAVE YOU, WHEN YOU WILL NOT, OR ARE NOT PREPARED TO STRIKE TO GET WHAT YOU WANT OUT OF YOUR DISPUTE.
Get your selves a SPINE and fight your own battles, then people might follow YOUR lead.
As for your idiotic post about the power of unions GET REAL!!!
EVER HEARD OF MARKET FORCES
YOU WILL NOT EVEN REFUSE AN UPGRADE
If i am lucky enough to be offered a job at cathay, then I would like to see you bully me!!!!!!
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Hong Kong is a great place to live; if you have friends!
Cathay is a great place to work for; if you have friends!
Why are you guys trying to convince us about your situation?
We are fighting for our and your future. Do not just think short term here!
We are here and we would not mind your company, but not just now! A lot of us have got 20+ years to go, so that is why we are trying to fight for something and not just let the company run over us and do what they want!
If we lose this, they will sack a number of guys everytime they want to take something from us. We will not even dare to ask for more, ever!
Cathay is a great place to work for; if you have friends!
Why are you guys trying to convince us about your situation?
We are fighting for our and your future. Do not just think short term here!
We are here and we would not mind your company, but not just now! A lot of us have got 20+ years to go, so that is why we are trying to fight for something and not just let the company run over us and do what they want!
If we lose this, they will sack a number of guys everytime they want to take something from us. We will not even dare to ask for more, ever!
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Well it does seem to be two sides to each story.
The basic facts remain, CX has shown itself to be a airline to now aspire to if you are only there to take the money and shut up or else well ask now over 70 guys what happens! Or more likely there is a large group of drivers who are dedicated to seeing a stable and fair contract which rewards loyalty and being professional.They are a group that has from 10 to 30 years left in the company and only seek a resolution that will prosper the company as a whole. The biggest worry is why does the company do such despicable underhanded things to a workforce that is so to speak at the sharp end of the buisiness? Ok enough ranting.
It is a fact that if a upgrade ban was put in place the company would immediately bypass the contractual seniority rules and hire direct entry commands(say from the freighter division to start with) combined with a more corrupt selection of "suitable F/Os". They would justify this by the militant HKAOA being out of step with reality. By the time it went to court (years as witnessed by the RP 2001 case) the damage would have already have been done.
Well the reality is ladies and gents is the union remains commited to a fair and just contract for all members, remains commited to the welfare of the 49ers and most importantly will remain commited to keeping a viable union opposing unilateral changes to its members contracts.
I have really tried to keep out of the vile posts from both sides of the coin here but lets face reality, we all have a choice the information is out there please stay informed, support one another and recognise that this is truly an attempt at busting the union.
The basic facts remain, CX has shown itself to be a airline to now aspire to if you are only there to take the money and shut up or else well ask now over 70 guys what happens! Or more likely there is a large group of drivers who are dedicated to seeing a stable and fair contract which rewards loyalty and being professional.They are a group that has from 10 to 30 years left in the company and only seek a resolution that will prosper the company as a whole. The biggest worry is why does the company do such despicable underhanded things to a workforce that is so to speak at the sharp end of the buisiness? Ok enough ranting.
It is a fact that if a upgrade ban was put in place the company would immediately bypass the contractual seniority rules and hire direct entry commands(say from the freighter division to start with) combined with a more corrupt selection of "suitable F/Os". They would justify this by the militant HKAOA being out of step with reality. By the time it went to court (years as witnessed by the RP 2001 case) the damage would have already have been done.
Well the reality is ladies and gents is the union remains commited to a fair and just contract for all members, remains commited to the welfare of the 49ers and most importantly will remain commited to keeping a viable union opposing unilateral changes to its members contracts.
I have really tried to keep out of the vile posts from both sides of the coin here but lets face reality, we all have a choice the information is out there please stay informed, support one another and recognise that this is truly an attempt at busting the union.
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God
Bengi, Maaaaaaaaaaaaaate
Cant' believe you're peddling the stories your Mum and Dad used to read you before bed.
Seriously check out Darwin's Theory on Evolution.
It may change the way you view things especially when you look in the mirror in the mornings.
I gave up believing those fairy stories when I hit my teens. I guess some people need to be followers.... baaaa
Bye the way, a good shrink is probably just what you need to help you out. Hope you get better soon.
Cant' believe you're peddling the stories your Mum and Dad used to read you before bed.
Seriously check out Darwin's Theory on Evolution.
It may change the way you view things especially when you look in the mirror in the mornings.
I gave up believing those fairy stories when I hit my teens. I guess some people need to be followers.... baaaa
Bye the way, a good shrink is probably just what you need to help you out. Hope you get better soon.
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bengi25
I don't really feel like writing anything to someone who takes such a counterproductive approach to those who ignore the ban. Your childish namecalling won't convert anyone to your point of view. Constructive conversation might.
I think you miss the point of what many think is so wrong with this dispute and ban. The Cathay AoA members are doing NOTHING effective to acheive their objectives. They are daily reducing the proportion of pilots who are AoA members. They have being legally out smarted by the company at every turn. They now ask junior pilots not to take (for many) a great and possibly only career break, whilst taking promotions themselves. Perhaps the new joiners would take the AoA/IFALPA ban more seriously if they saw the CPA pilots doing the same.
Unions in the past may have achieved much for workers. The AoA has achieved nothing and now asks it members to do nothing (effective or risky). If the AoA leadership (a core of 49ers) thought they could effectivly intimidate direct entry Capts and F/Os, then maybe there would be a promotion ban. Leave the kids alone! Give them a break, unless you are also prepared to do what you ask of them. I suspect another reason for the AoA not placing a ban on promotions, is that it would not work. It would be broken by enough of the membership to break the union....
I don't really feel like writing anything to someone who takes such a counterproductive approach to those who ignore the ban. Your childish namecalling won't convert anyone to your point of view. Constructive conversation might.
I think you miss the point of what many think is so wrong with this dispute and ban. The Cathay AoA members are doing NOTHING effective to acheive their objectives. They are daily reducing the proportion of pilots who are AoA members. They have being legally out smarted by the company at every turn. They now ask junior pilots not to take (for many) a great and possibly only career break, whilst taking promotions themselves. Perhaps the new joiners would take the AoA/IFALPA ban more seriously if they saw the CPA pilots doing the same.
Unions in the past may have achieved much for workers. The AoA has achieved nothing and now asks it members to do nothing (effective or risky). If the AoA leadership (a core of 49ers) thought they could effectivly intimidate direct entry Capts and F/Os, then maybe there would be a promotion ban. Leave the kids alone! Give them a break, unless you are also prepared to do what you ask of them. I suspect another reason for the AoA not placing a ban on promotions, is that it would not work. It would be broken by enough of the membership to break the union....
Skippy,
YOU are not fighting for ANYBODY. You are insisting with threats and intimidation that OTHERS fight for YOU!!
Aussiefly,
How is it worse for the company to have to find S/Os rather than direct entry Captains? Surley it would be harder for them to find guys suitable for command than it would for them to find S/Os. Oh wait, I see. If they had D/E Captains, HKAOA members would have to make a SACRIFICE in support of their dispute. And if any accepted promotion in the face of an upgrade ban, you might have to label a FRIEND as a SCAB!!
Much easier to shift the onis onto a group of less fortunate guys you can label and bully with a clear conscience.
Clever.Not moral,but clever...
As to "Union Busting" tell me how a policy that means hundreds of pilots joining your company will not be eligable to join your union is in its' interests? No "Union Busting" required. The HKAOA is doing the job to itself!!
YOU are not fighting for ANYBODY. You are insisting with threats and intimidation that OTHERS fight for YOU!!
Aussiefly,
How is it worse for the company to have to find S/Os rather than direct entry Captains? Surley it would be harder for them to find guys suitable for command than it would for them to find S/Os. Oh wait, I see. If they had D/E Captains, HKAOA members would have to make a SACRIFICE in support of their dispute. And if any accepted promotion in the face of an upgrade ban, you might have to label a FRIEND as a SCAB!!
Much easier to shift the onis onto a group of less fortunate guys you can label and bully with a clear conscience.
Clever.Not moral,but clever...
As to "Union Busting" tell me how a policy that means hundreds of pilots joining your company will not be eligable to join your union is in its' interests? No "Union Busting" required. The HKAOA is doing the job to itself!!
Last edited by Wizofoz; 21st May 2002 at 13:01.
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If I were a disunion leader I would advise posters such as Bengi to cease and desist. Their vitriol is doing their cause no good at all, au contraire. If they are this despicable on an open forum like Pprune imagine how they go on in Cprune. Having been victimised myself in my past I do understand how much they are hurting. Selecting another victim group, however, especially one so vulnerable as the young aircrew looking for an airline to join is not going to work. Everybody peck the weakest chicken. Matey, this is not a farmyard, nor the middle ages. When all the courses are filled - as they will be - the disunion will be that much weaker and the new aircrew will be protected. Change strategy before it is too late, cancel the ban, stop all action and change the committee. Then and only then will there be progress. I accept that I have been anti-union policy for some time now. The opportunity was there to regain most if not all the jobs of the 49ers. I want to save the union as an entity and instead I am watching it slowly and seemingly inevitably coming apart at the seams. I want my friends amongst the 49ers, and I have quite a few, get their jobs back. Not likely with current strategies being enacted by the disunion.
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Wizofoz,
Skippy is not insisting with threats and intimidation, he is simply just presenting the facts. Just because that someone has a different opinion than yours doesn't mean that they threat or intimidate anyone.
Please don't try to convince me that someone who is fighting for his union is not fighting for anyone. He is not only fighting for the CX pilots but for all pilots in the world.
I have said it before and I will say it again, this is bigger than just CX, look at Lan Chile and Iberia where the management has used the same tactics as they have at CX, sacking pilots to bust the union. Unfortunately with a lot of luck at Lan Chile.
If the CX pilots don't stop it right here then all pilots around the world will be working under very poor conditions in the future.
It's very easy to say that the CX pilots should make a bigger sacrifice, and I'm sure they would if they had the labour laws to protect them, but unlike the rest of the civilized world, they don't.
Skippy is not insisting with threats and intimidation, he is simply just presenting the facts. Just because that someone has a different opinion than yours doesn't mean that they threat or intimidate anyone.
Please don't try to convince me that someone who is fighting for his union is not fighting for anyone. He is not only fighting for the CX pilots but for all pilots in the world.
I have said it before and I will say it again, this is bigger than just CX, look at Lan Chile and Iberia where the management has used the same tactics as they have at CX, sacking pilots to bust the union. Unfortunately with a lot of luck at Lan Chile.
If the CX pilots don't stop it right here then all pilots around the world will be working under very poor conditions in the future.
It's very easy to say that the CX pilots should make a bigger sacrifice, and I'm sure they would if they had the labour laws to protect them, but unlike the rest of the civilized world, they don't.
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Rod. Skippy is presenting the facts as HE sees them. This does not necessarily make them facts, more actually opinion. And, I agree he is completely entitled to express his opinion. I have a different opinion of the current situation. I do not call it an impasse by choice as there is no impasse. The company is in the much stronger position. Sure they fired, quite unreasonably, 49 odd pilots. And sure, they have been taking action against those aircrew they see as 'anti-management'. But at the end of the day this dispute (other than the 49ers) has been dawdling on now for eight odd years. The termination of our brothers was in direct retaliation for an increased level of pilot union activity. The committee must have seen it coming. To support the 49ers is a good thing to do, if, the committee really feels that its strategies will bring the company back to the table. It clearly will not. The dishonourable ban, supported by USALPA etc etc, is NOT supported by the aircrew body at large in the world. Why? Because it is a partial ban only, and those young aircrew ignoring the ban DID NOT take the jobs of the 49ers. AOA members did that themselves by accepting upgrades, and the increased perks associated with their promotions. Isolating these young folk is only weakening the unions position and strengthening the hand of management. It has been said elsewhere and is true, that those young folk refusing to come to CX are exactly the people who would support the union if they did come. Those that have come in contradiction to the ban feel alone and vulnerable - easy fodder for the spin doctors in management. We are not Lan Chile or any other banana republic airline, Hong Kong is a different place altogether. The bosses of big business here and the population in general will support the CX management position. My firm opinion is that the union is slowly but surely painting itself into a corner from where the only way out will be much greater industrial action by union members. Then we will have the three hundred and 49ers - and the company will survive. I plead with all moderate union members to resist increased militancy, change the committee, cancel the ban, accept the youngsters into the union and stop becoming what you say management is. IE bullies and intimidators.
RVE
OK, "Shorty was just stating the fact that newcomers will be threatened and intimidated". Better?
And as to "Fighting", my whole point is you are using others to do the fighting for you.
OK, "Shorty was just stating the fact that newcomers will be threatened and intimidated". Better?
And as to "Fighting", my whole point is you are using others to do the fighting for you.
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i have not been threatened or intimidated directly since starting with Cathay. my friends up here tell me it may be different when i start line training BUT bottom line is i have been assured that management will NOT STAND for any funny business (you hard ass union lads better check your vol 1) and that it will be stamped on immediatly. I have no desire to make enemies just get on and do my job as does the next lot of intakes. we did not take anyones job and are not crossing a picket line call us what you want but leave us alone to get on with the job we are paid very weell to do. thankyou.
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So, you already know the Vol. 1? Do you know how easily this can be changed? I guess not, because you have not been here long enough.
You are a ******! So everytime something does not go the way you want it, you will report it? Is that what your future looks like? Stand up for yourself instead! You made the decision to come here.
You are a ******! So everytime something does not go the way you want it, you will report it? Is that what your future looks like? Stand up for yourself instead! You made the decision to come here.
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I guess Skippy we will translate the asterisks to whatever we will, for example 'brave young man standing against an unreasonable ban', or perhaps 'worried young father and provider doing the best you can'. At the same time flying, maybe, with AOA members who have been recently promoted into jobs previously held by the 49ers. By having the wherewithal to post he is standing up for himself, and the many others in the same position. He should be in the disunion, he should have the support of his colleagues and most certainly he should report blatant intimidation and blind prejudice that might adversely affect him. By isolating yet another group in our company the AOA is doing a destruct job on itself. I believe some very brave souls have already been using graffiti as a tool of disunion pravda propaganda. My goodness, the disunion leaders need to take a firm hold of the artists before they do even more damage to the credibility of the AOA as a whole.
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skippy 777 my friend i am entitled to work just like you. i don't think the company will change vol 1 for you just yet, why are you a training Captain maybe ?. did your Dad pay for your flying lessons because my dad didn't he did help my brother out for $2000 but that was wasted money thanks to a greedy union. i still owe money my friend but I will have paid it back after three years with this airline. I don't have a problem with my working conditions and pay. call me what you want but let me get on with doing my job and repaying my debt thankyou. i am not a dobber but if i am being hassled i shall report it as management has told us to do for better crew / management harmony and in the interests of Cathay Pacific and it's staff.
Last edited by Truth Seekers Int'nl; 22nd May 2002 at 11:16.
Skippy et al,
Have you noticed how the whole thrust of the argument has gone from being Cathay Pilot vs Cathay Management to Cathay Pilot vs Cathay Pilot? This is the inevitable result of the divisive, ineffective ban. If this was the only course open to you then the truth is you had NO effective course available. But this one is truley detrimental to your cause both by dividing your union, and making your workplace an even WORSE place to be.
In 1989 I watched the AFAP pursue a lost cause into virtual oblivion. Don't do the same.
Have you noticed how the whole thrust of the argument has gone from being Cathay Pilot vs Cathay Management to Cathay Pilot vs Cathay Pilot? This is the inevitable result of the divisive, ineffective ban. If this was the only course open to you then the truth is you had NO effective course available. But this one is truley detrimental to your cause both by dividing your union, and making your workplace an even WORSE place to be.
In 1989 I watched the AFAP pursue a lost cause into virtual oblivion. Don't do the same.