Should edward snowden be allowed to travel to the uk ???
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Shutterbug:
Well said; our colleague parabellum should really take look at the big picture.
I like your reference to "military mind" as an appendage to a nom de plume sometimes says a lot.
Well said; our colleague parabellum should really take look at the big picture.
I like your reference to "military mind" as an appendage to a nom de plume sometimes says a lot.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Oh dear shutterbug, what melodrama you manage to inject into your inaccurate post. I don't plan to go down that road but will point out to you that on the one hand you say:
Err............No he isn't, he is scuttling for sanctuary as fast as his legs will carry him, (though Russia may still put a spanner in that one).
Do grow up, they haven't the time to waste listening to your puerile 'phone conversations or tracking your internet. They are hoping to catch people who would happily destroy everything you value, including yourself, if they can. You are just too wrapped up in your civil libertarian rose coloured, huggy-fluffy world to see this. There are a lot of advantages to having been in the military, continual reality checks being just one, an understanding of the need for security is another.
Indeed we have and people with a proper understanding of 'need to know' accept this.
Oh Lord, please spare us from this Cyclopean outbreak and don't let them breed.
since he is prepared to "do the time."
Trawling the entire internet for personal information on the entire population beyond the scope and sanction of governmental authority just because they can?
We've known for years these sorts of shenanigans were going on
Thank you Ed for your sacrifice
Last edited by parabellum; 25th Jun 2013 at 07:23.
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A spokesman for the NSA summed it up very well, when he expressed happiness that Snowden was charged with espionage, after he left the NSA:
"These charges send a clear message," the spokesman said. "In the United States, you can’t spy on people"
and
"Only by bringing Mr. Snowden to justice can we safeguard the most precious of American rights: privacy"
He seemed totally unaware of the irony...
Another mildly entertaining piece of news about this charade, more related to aviation: The Aeroflot flight to Havana was full of journalists trying to take pictures of Snowden - who wasn't on the flight. When the doors were closed and they realized Snowden wasn't there, they also found out that no alcohol is served on that flight. Upon arrival in Cuba the captain grabbed his camera and took pictures of the journalists:
No sign of Snowden as Aeroflot plane lands in Havana
"These charges send a clear message," the spokesman said. "In the United States, you can’t spy on people"
and
"Only by bringing Mr. Snowden to justice can we safeguard the most precious of American rights: privacy"
He seemed totally unaware of the irony...
Another mildly entertaining piece of news about this charade, more related to aviation: The Aeroflot flight to Havana was full of journalists trying to take pictures of Snowden - who wasn't on the flight. When the doors were closed and they realized Snowden wasn't there, they also found out that no alcohol is served on that flight. Upon arrival in Cuba the captain grabbed his camera and took pictures of the journalists:
No sign of Snowden as Aeroflot plane lands in Havana
Last edited by deptrai; 25th Jun 2013 at 07:59.
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Military Mind
Interesting that the phrase, 'Military Mind' seems to be being used as a derogatory expression. Here's the first definition which pops up in the no doubt heavily censored and stored in a vault google page:-
" common expression for the professional mind-set that unemotionally evaluates every issue affecting the accomplishment of a crucial mission; a reasonable or rational mind, a trained or mastermind "
I'd aspire to that and I'll keep mine if I have one thanks.
" common expression for the professional mind-set that unemotionally evaluates every issue affecting the accomplishment of a crucial mission; a reasonable or rational mind, a trained or mastermind "
I'd aspire to that and I'll keep mine if I have one thanks.
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common expression for the professional mind-set that unemotionally evaluates every issue affecting the accomplishment of a crucial mission; a reasonable or rational mind, a trained or mastermind
PS: A great thread to complete the ignore list, anyway.
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Military Mind = Sociopath..??..!!
By the same criteria of my looking up the definition of Military Mind, (arguably not the most accurate but intended to be unbiased - we could all find others to better suit our personal slant); from the first google definition:-
"SOCIOPATH" - A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
Do you feel that accurately defines the leading Military Minds or describes the attitudes and reasoning process of your ex Mil colleagues? I accept that your answer may be "Yes", I'm just interested and suspect, actually, not really.
Apologies to others for pinging slightly off topic here but the mindset of BOTH Snowden and the agencies now seeking to catch/silence/prosecute/waterboard? him is interesting is it not? Also there are enough of us here to be insulted by heavy.airbourne's comment, although to be honest amused is probably more correct.
"SOCIOPATH" - A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
Do you feel that accurately defines the leading Military Minds or describes the attitudes and reasoning process of your ex Mil colleagues? I accept that your answer may be "Yes", I'm just interested and suspect, actually, not really.
Apologies to others for pinging slightly off topic here but the mindset of BOTH Snowden and the agencies now seeking to catch/silence/prosecute/waterboard? him is interesting is it not? Also there are enough of us here to be insulted by heavy.airbourne's comment, although to be honest amused is probably more correct.
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Mr Snowden seems destined to remain a stateless person for the foreseeable future......
The message has been the subject of much complaint and protest but the messenger is doomed to remain in transit sans travel documents .....
The message has been the subject of much complaint and protest but the messenger is doomed to remain in transit sans travel documents .....
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I hope he applies for asylum in Iran. That way the Sun newspaper can run the headline
"Mountain goes to Mohammed"
Just kidding... I hope he rots in hell. Whistleblower my @rse, he sold his country out for his own benefit and ego. Had he really had moral objections to the behaviour of his government, he had many avenues to "blow the whistle", but none of those would bolster his sagging ego and bank balance. Take a moment to review his life history on Wikipedia and you will spot a tread. He thought he was something special, but he failed at everything. Now he is just a failed traitor and deserves to rot in some third world despot country.
He has allowed himself, and any sensitive information in his head, to be compromised by an unfriendly power. He is no whistleblower, just a traitor. History teaches us there is no such thing as a successful traitor.
"Mountain goes to Mohammed"
Just kidding... I hope he rots in hell. Whistleblower my @rse, he sold his country out for his own benefit and ego. Had he really had moral objections to the behaviour of his government, he had many avenues to "blow the whistle", but none of those would bolster his sagging ego and bank balance. Take a moment to review his life history on Wikipedia and you will spot a tread. He thought he was something special, but he failed at everything. Now he is just a failed traitor and deserves to rot in some third world despot country.
He has allowed himself, and any sensitive information in his head, to be compromised by an unfriendly power. He is no whistleblower, just a traitor. History teaches us there is no such thing as a successful traitor.
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he sold his country out for his own benefit and ego
He has allowed himself, and any sensitive information in his head, to be compromised by an unfriendly power
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Flap 10
Do think he was not paid by Guardian? Do think he paid for his hotel in HK, his airfares? i bet he is peddling a book deal. He hoped to gained from this. Hopefully he won't. This was all about him.
I am not sure if you are ex-military, however anyone with specialist knowledge is not allowed, nor should they allow themselves to be alone with foreign intelligence specialists. He engineered this situation and has allowed himself to be interviewed without supervision by two countries unfriendly to the US. That's not "whilstblowing".
By the way, gulliable is no longer a valid word in the English language as it has not appeared in the Oxford English Dictionary since 1975.
I am not sure if you are ex-military, however anyone with specialist knowledge is not allowed, nor should they allow themselves to be alone with foreign intelligence specialists. He engineered this situation and has allowed himself to be interviewed without supervision by two countries unfriendly to the US. That's not "whilstblowing".
By the way, gulliable is no longer a valid word in the English language as it has not appeared in the Oxford English Dictionary since 1975.
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Mr Q
I think you will find it's just Anthony Blunt.
Perhaps i am being a bit subtle. A successful traitor is known as a hero, patriot, freedom-fighter or whistle-blower. Remember, the victors get to write history. Had the Soviets won the Cold War, the four gentlemen to which you referred would not be known as traitors.
Mr Snowden has passed his sell-by date and the super-powers want rid of him as he's an embarrassment. The best result for everyone is for him to go into exile in a despot South American country and learns what a real oppressive, intrusive government looks like.
In the mean time Snowden would be wise to learn Spanish phrases like "No, I do not want sex in the shower" and "It can't me my turn to pick up the soap again" and "Do you want fries with that".
The last thing Obama wants is Snowden to return, the adulation, show trial and book deal would give Snowden what he seeks. Hopefully, some big smelly cell-mate will give him what he deserves.
Perhaps i am being a bit subtle. A successful traitor is known as a hero, patriot, freedom-fighter or whistle-blower. Remember, the victors get to write history. Had the Soviets won the Cold War, the four gentlemen to which you referred would not be known as traitors.
Mr Snowden has passed his sell-by date and the super-powers want rid of him as he's an embarrassment. The best result for everyone is for him to go into exile in a despot South American country and learns what a real oppressive, intrusive government looks like.
In the mean time Snowden would be wise to learn Spanish phrases like "No, I do not want sex in the shower" and "It can't me my turn to pick up the soap again" and "Do you want fries with that".
The last thing Obama wants is Snowden to return, the adulation, show trial and book deal would give Snowden what he seeks. Hopefully, some big smelly cell-mate will give him what he deserves.
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I think those of you claiming Snowden is a traitor need to reflect a bit and consider this quote by one of only true great presidents; Benjamin Franklin:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Who is the traitor, the man who reveals a complete disregard and trouncing of the US Constitution or the people in Government who trash the very principles the country was founded on?! I find it disgusting and troubling that so many people seem hell bent on defending and supporting actions by Governments that are bordering on tyrannical.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Who is the traitor, the man who reveals a complete disregard and trouncing of the US Constitution or the people in Government who trash the very principles the country was founded on?! I find it disgusting and troubling that so many people seem hell bent on defending and supporting actions by Governments that are bordering on tyrannical.
Last edited by Threethirty; 2nd Jul 2013 at 21:32.
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Snowden..he is simply a 30 year old kid, possessor of ideals from a cleaner age and frankly a breath of fresh air to the mass of us who despise the nannying vitiates who run the global politic. Those who "whistle" without exposing so called national secrets..and lets face it, we all know that spying is now a massive listening business and not the Philby esque polemic of the 60's, are merely re emphasising the need for us to refocus on how necessary GCHQ, KCS and NSA organisations really are. After all, the Orwellian games are only just beginning...!!
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What information has Snowden divulged that is evidence the US Government has a systemic disregard for the constitution?
The fact the US government collects data on phone calls and emails is hardly an earth shattering revelation. Google, Yahoo, Microsoft all do this and use that to target advertising to the user (ie you). It is a very different matter if the US government is reading the emails or listening to the phone calls without the appropriate authority. Snowden has made no allegation this is happening on a widespread or systematic basis.
The revelation the US spies on its Allies is hardly earth-shattering. The faux shock of certain publicity seeking EU Officials is laughable, What do you think all the Military Attaches to all the EU Embassies in the US/UN do? What do you think is in all the diplomatic bags heading back to the EU from the US/ UN?
Snowden has focused on trading secrets that embarrass the US government to grab headlines to boost his own ego/bank balance. However, in doing so he is also giving up other information (perhaps unwittingly) that harms the US and ultimately puts Operatives/ US interests at risk.
Do you think those who are providing intelligence to the US at their own personal risk, be it a US Serviceman, a Taleban member or a foreign government official, sleeps well at night knowing that any member of the US Intelligence Services could wake-up tomorrow morning and declare himself a "whistle-blower" and sell him out for 15 minutes of fame and a bag of cash?
For those who think Snowden is a patriot. The next time you are at a party, sipping your Chardonnay, and find yourself saying that the Police or the government needs better intelligence to solve whatever problem is the topic of the day, stop yourself because you have just defeated your own argument.
The fact the US government collects data on phone calls and emails is hardly an earth shattering revelation. Google, Yahoo, Microsoft all do this and use that to target advertising to the user (ie you). It is a very different matter if the US government is reading the emails or listening to the phone calls without the appropriate authority. Snowden has made no allegation this is happening on a widespread or systematic basis.
The revelation the US spies on its Allies is hardly earth-shattering. The faux shock of certain publicity seeking EU Officials is laughable, What do you think all the Military Attaches to all the EU Embassies in the US/UN do? What do you think is in all the diplomatic bags heading back to the EU from the US/ UN?
Snowden has focused on trading secrets that embarrass the US government to grab headlines to boost his own ego/bank balance. However, in doing so he is also giving up other information (perhaps unwittingly) that harms the US and ultimately puts Operatives/ US interests at risk.
Do you think those who are providing intelligence to the US at their own personal risk, be it a US Serviceman, a Taleban member or a foreign government official, sleeps well at night knowing that any member of the US Intelligence Services could wake-up tomorrow morning and declare himself a "whistle-blower" and sell him out for 15 minutes of fame and a bag of cash?
For those who think Snowden is a patriot. The next time you are at a party, sipping your Chardonnay, and find yourself saying that the Police or the government needs better intelligence to solve whatever problem is the topic of the day, stop yourself because you have just defeated your own argument.
Last edited by Liam Gallagher; 3rd Jul 2013 at 03:04.
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Pucka
A)
I concur wholeheartedly that Governments telling us to act this way or that, to compensate idiots who fall over on our shop floors and who use a significant proportion of GDP to provide Health and Safety signs reminding us to breathe in and out are "Nannying" and it's unnecessary. However, are you, (I'm genuinely unsure), saying that, post cold war, GCHQ NSA etc are unnecessary and "Nannying"? (!) I personally think that if those running the global politic did retire those organisations, the world would have a short break in terrorism/Nuke development etc etc whilst the bad guys partied then set off with a will again shortly after unhindered by any resistance.
Secondly,
How old does one have to be these days to be responsible for ones own actions, presumably one would have to reach that age before being handing in your toys and being given a high security clearance?
3: -> , and for the benefit of Steve the Pirate, I can't find anyone who agrees that
is a noun 
Nannying
Secondly,
simply a 30 year old kid
3: -> , and for the benefit of Steve the Pirate, I can't find anyone who agrees that
vitiates