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Retirement at 68

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Retirement at 68

Old 6th May 2012, 10:53
  #161 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: U.K.
Age: 71
Posts: 215
A Scale Provident Fund

Old Fella

Thank you for enlightening me. I note that you left Cathay in 1991 - in the days when they were paying a profit share bonus of 2.99 months of A scale salary.

When you left Cathay 21 years ago it was a fantastic company, I joined only three years previously. I left (resigned) 4-5 years ago because it was no longer so.

You left Cathay even before the introduction of B scale salaries.

The deceit and mistrust that is apparent today was not so in your day; as I have said, it began around 1994.

I'm afraid that after 21 years, you are so far out of touch.

I can only quote your own words " Obviously things change and I am in no position to comment on the current situation."

FERetd is offline  
Old 6th May 2012, 11:38
  #162 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cathay City
Age: 61
Posts: 30
Old Fella, my sincere apologies, but whatever CX was when you were here, it is anything but now.

You walk onto any flight deck, any fleet, and you know it's gonna be 10h of bitching. We all hate cx pacific.
whackthemole is offline  
Old 6th May 2012, 11:43
  #163 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wingham NSW Australia
Age: 79
Posts: 1,349
A Scale Provident Fund

FERetd. You say that the "rot" set in during 1994 and that was about six years after you joined CX. By my reckoning you remained until around 2007-2008. You must have had a miserable time of it for those 13 or 14 years after the deceit and mistrust began. Mate, nothing I have said indicates a lack of sympathy for those not happy with CX. I feel very sorry for anyone who stays in a job where they feel constantly under-valued. A bit like staying with a spouse whom you do not like or trust I suggest. I stayed less than 8 years and left only because basings were not available and my family were mostly in Australia and growing. I left not because of any bitterness as CX always treated me well and I reckon I repaid that with loyalty to the company.
Old Fella is offline  
Old 6th May 2012, 12:02
  #164 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
We are not supposed to accept circling approaches, what is the problem with accepting a visual?
Old 6th May 2012, 12:17
  #165 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: hong kong
Posts: 14
I like it!!! (Flak jacket on)
trident-too is offline  
Old 6th May 2012, 13:52
  #166 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 314
there's a 20 minute pre-brief required !
Good Business Sense is offline  
Old 6th May 2012, 17:05
  #167 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: HONG KONG
Posts: 85
Old Fella

As I no longer wish to be unhappy in Cathay and want to take your advice and leave, where can I go to enjoy what you had?

.....as I presume you will not have an answer to my rhetorical question I suggest you keep your opinions on the Cathay of today to yourself as you are no longer valid in todays aviation.
Brown Nose is offline  
Old 6th May 2012, 19:11
  #168 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 155
No need to be rude Brown Nose. Old Fella may be completely out of touch and he has acknowledged so, however he is perfectly entitled to pass comment on how things once were.

FWIW Old fella, you advocate leaving if you're not happy, but the problem with aviation today is that every company treats its pilots like sh!te. Coupled with seniority based systems we are effectively handcuffed and the only option is try and improve your lot from within.
joebanana is offline  
Old 6th May 2012, 23:29
  #169 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: U.K.
Age: 71
Posts: 215
Old Fella

I did not say "that the "rot" set in during 1994"

I actually said "The lack of any morality is prevalent in most of today's operators and in that Cathay leads the way and has done since around 1994".

I believe that 1994 was the beginning, it has worsened over the years. The "rot" affected me early in 1997 and yes, although I still thoroughly enjoyed my job and operated with a lot of good people, I did not enjoy the last 10 years of working for Cathay. Whereas I used to answer my phone on a "G" day and I was loyal employee, that stopped in 1997. I did not take SLS after the SARS episode. Loyalty is a two way street - something that the DFO at the time couldn't seem to grasp.

I would have liked to been able to take my services elsewhere - but where? Much like those people who are writing on this forum now!

I am very happy that you left Cathay (in 1991) without any bitterness but I don't think that 8 years at Cathay, which ended 21 years ago, can give you a real understanding of recent issues. I wonder if having left in 1991 you can have any real grasp of events post 1994.

I am sure that the vast majority of pilots at Cathay enjoy their job immensely. Whether they enjoy Cathay is another matter.

I think that Brown Nose has asked a perfectly reasonable question of you - I do not note any of the rudeness perceived by joebanana.

So, rhetorical or not, what is your answer?
FERetd is offline  
Old 7th May 2012, 05:32
  #170 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wingham NSW Australia
Age: 79
Posts: 1,349
Every company treats it's pilots like shite

joebanana. Thank you for your defence of my right to express an opinion. If, as you say, every company treats it's pilots like shite I am very sorry for you. It certainly seems as though CX has a number of unhappy pilots, in fact whackthemole claims on "any flight deck" or "any fleet" you all hate CX. That, I would think, is an exaggeration.

I do not claim to have the answers. I simply do not believe that there cannot be opportunities elsewhere for a much more pleasant working environment. Constant unhappiness in the work place certainly would, and did, lead me to find an alternative employer or even an alternative occupation. I actually left the RAAF after 23 years for one reason only, never home long enough to enjoy my family life. I drove busses and coaches for 30 months between the RAAF and CX and I honestly enjoyed the change.

If the only way to improve your lot is to walk away, do it. Life is just too short to make everyone else miserable with your individual woes. Good luck to you all.

BTW, thanks Brown Nose, go smell the roses instead of being so B & T.
Old Fella is offline  
Old 9th May 2012, 07:05
  #171 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 335
Hey all


wow never seen such dedication to a thread ! Agree with you that we walk a fine line between maintaining our COS and the training standard. However disagree that our training is second to none. Whether you meant that it was tied for first or that it was " the best" is irrelevant. The fact is , as within a cockpit, the minute you think you are too good to fail , that is when you have a serious accident or incident. I chose those words because they were recently used in our audit report.

There are many areas for improvement in our checking system. Expecting pilots to learn "local knowledge" from our lame route briefings is ridiculous. We should foster a culture where the pilot who has the local knowledge shares, line check or not. A pilot should come out of a sim a better pilot than they went in. That would require a more open "training" culture. The sim is an expensive piece of equipment highly under used here. When does anyone volunteer their weakness in the sim ?

If Captains are "checked" to a higher standard why do FOs do a 4 sector line check and the Captain only 2. If you were right it would be reversed. How many sim sessions where the FO eats the mistakes regardless of who made them ?

There is too much randomness in the checking process. Too much luck in who gets assigned for your checks on a command course. Some make it through with less ability than some who fail because of who they draw. Some people fail PCAs or 3bars or are pulled off command courses without fully understanding why.

The interesting thing is that maybe just maybe things may improve as based law creeps into contracts.

As for "vote with your feet" I have always hated that statement.

How about, "let's all work together to improve things" ! Here is the kicker we could improve the checking system and it would benefit everyone, the co. The pilots and the bottom line. The only ones left out might be those stuck in the dark ages, those unable to actually improve the performance of their trainee/checkee . Those who see themselves as custodians of the SOPs rather than helpfull motivators.

Peace out.
Five Green is offline  
Old 10th May 2012, 11:02
  #172 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Not in a Bus
Posts: 334


"You walk onto any flight deck, any fleet, and you know it's
gonna be 10h of bitching. We all hate cx pacific"


1) Wrong - Too General - Sometimes it's a lot of Bitching

2) I; on balance, like working for Cathay Pacific - otherwise .... I'D LEAVE
White None is offline  
Old 10th May 2012, 12:02
  #173 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wingham NSW Australia
Age: 79
Posts: 1,349
Flight Deck Bitching

White None. I suspect you would be in the majority. Stick with it whilst ever you don't have a guarantee of a better job elsewhere. Some comments here remind me of the saying "I had no shoes and complained until I met a man who had no feet".
Old Fella is offline  
Old 11th May 2012, 01:07
  #174 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: with the other ex-CX pond scum (a zoologist was once head of Flight Ops)
Posts: 0
'The more things change the more they stay the same...' This is a true story:

A bit over two decades ago, some CX pilots and flight engineers were sharing a large table with a Delta crew at what was then a well-known 'airline' beer-hall style restaurant in Mainz on a FRA layover. One of the Americans shouted,

'Hey, I bet you guys are Cath-ay!'

'Erm... yes, how did you pick that?'

'Ya got no women with ya and yore bitchin' about your management!'.
Captain Dart is offline  
Old 11th May 2012, 06:38
  #175 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wingham NSW Australia
Age: 79
Posts: 1,349
2 Decades Ago.

CD, even two decades ago SOME whinged about CX. Mostly, they had forgotten from whence they had come and what COS they had pre-CX. Born to whinge I would say.
Old Fella is offline  
Old 11th May 2012, 07:44
  #176 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,837
A 300 Ton landing in a Monsoon

How do they do it..
stilton is offline  
Old 11th May 2012, 12:47
  #177 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: GC Paradise
Posts: 1,032
RA 68?

RA 68...why would any sane pilot consider retiring at an age that the Company specifies as some arbitrary limit that suits them (the Company), rather than retiring when it suits you personally as the individual?

The Company already runs your daily life through the Roster...but even worse, it jerks you and your family around with continuous short term notice changes to said Roster.

Your time off is further disrupted by requests from the Company which you feel compelled to carry out under duress of endangering your promotion prospects and job security.

Your leave is disrupted by your inability to book "confirmed" Priority 4 tickets or just get the heck out of Hong Kong to anywhere acceptable with your family on any type of staff ticket.

You are lucky to get any annual leave, let alone leave that might be at a time of the year that is suitable and beneficial to you and your family.

Don't work one minute more for this Company than you can afford. Save your money for retirement and retire as soon as you have enough...

And especially, retire before you are too old to enjoy retirement or croak on the job...it's not worth it.
FlexibleResponse is offline  
Old 12th May 2012, 07:51
  #178 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brexitland
Posts: 1,119
Quite funny this bollocks about how LHR - HKG skippers can't do heavyweight landings on a rainy night in Bombay. What difference does it make where you land and at what weight? Right place, right time, right stable approach and Bombay is easy or nobody should do it. Don't kid yourselves young boys - we did these trips when nobody knew they were a bit special. And we couldn't practice them on a FliteSim either.
Arfur Dent is offline  

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