new recruiting grounds for CX
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Quantas air?
Tell us about that high IQ of yours....
As for me, I fly in country Australia building my hours and experience, have about 1800 hours and only now starting of thinking of applying for airlines, though feel I need another 700 hours of experience till I'd be ready.
I don't have a sense of entitlement and am working hard to get where I would like to be.
Tell us about that high IQ of yours....
As for me, I fly in country Australia building my hours and experience, have about 1800 hours and only now starting of thinking of applying for airlines, though feel I need another 700 hours of experience till I'd be ready.
I don't have a sense of entitlement and am working hard to get where I would like to be.
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Oh god, is THIS what our esteemed Directors have reduced Cathay Pacific Airways to? And they dare walk through the Street behaving as though any of us owed them any respect? And then the one day PS..... Wow, these guys plumb new depths every day....
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Everyone in aviation knows that the most dangerous pilot is the one with 500 hours. Five hundred hours is a point where, too often, a combination of arrogance and stupidity outweigh good judgement....and bad decisions are made.
Speaking from 40 years of flying, with an accumulated 25,000 flying hours, here's what I think makes a great pilot:
EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE!!!
You can't become a Doctor, a Lawyer, or even a formula-one driver with only a high IQ, and you can't become a pilot either. Intelligence is the starting point.....
An intelligent young wannabe should then attend and graduate from an excellent flying school (air force or recognized aviation college preferred).
A job is then attained where skills are honed and experience is gained. Then the better and more experienced one becomes, the more responsibility he/she takes on, flying bigger and bigger airplanes, carrying more and more passengers. An ATPL license from a first world country is then attained.
At this point if the young wannabe should end up upside down on a dark and dirty night he/she would have a clue on how to recover.
This prevents the rest of us in the industry from having to go into the simulator and practice stall recoveries (STALL RECOVERIES) because on several occasions an "intelligent" young wannabe, with poor training and no experience, couldn't recognize a stall and couldn't recover from it before disaster struck.....
A good pilot becomes a good pilot after years of poling around the sky making decisions and judgements, and then observing the outcome. Most times, things will work out nicely and soft touchdowns will ensue. But there will be other times when a decision will be regretted. Over the years, yes YEARS, as one hones their piloting skills, experience and understanding expand, and decisions become better and better.
Only then is one qualified to apply to an airline as an experienced pilot. Until that time he/she remains anything but qualified.
The accident statistics are there for all to study and observe. They speak for themselves.
Speaking from 40 years of flying, with an accumulated 25,000 flying hours, here's what I think makes a great pilot:
EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE!!!
You can't become a Doctor, a Lawyer, or even a formula-one driver with only a high IQ, and you can't become a pilot either. Intelligence is the starting point.....
An intelligent young wannabe should then attend and graduate from an excellent flying school (air force or recognized aviation college preferred).
A job is then attained where skills are honed and experience is gained. Then the better and more experienced one becomes, the more responsibility he/she takes on, flying bigger and bigger airplanes, carrying more and more passengers. An ATPL license from a first world country is then attained.
At this point if the young wannabe should end up upside down on a dark and dirty night he/she would have a clue on how to recover.
This prevents the rest of us in the industry from having to go into the simulator and practice stall recoveries (STALL RECOVERIES) because on several occasions an "intelligent" young wannabe, with poor training and no experience, couldn't recognize a stall and couldn't recover from it before disaster struck.....
A good pilot becomes a good pilot after years of poling around the sky making decisions and judgements, and then observing the outcome. Most times, things will work out nicely and soft touchdowns will ensue. But there will be other times when a decision will be regretted. Over the years, yes YEARS, as one hones their piloting skills, experience and understanding expand, and decisions become better and better.
Only then is one qualified to apply to an airline as an experienced pilot. Until that time he/she remains anything but qualified.
The accident statistics are there for all to study and observe. They speak for themselves.
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Good post Raven!
To put it another way, you don't know what you don't know. Most cannot appreciate experience until they have some for themselves such that they have witnessed the difference it makes. It takes proper and unusual parental upbringing to accept this principle on blind faith.
I sense that most of our Indian commentators come from the upper wrung of the caste system which lends itself towards a sense of entitlement and looking down upon others. Both seem relevant to the general attitude we are reading in these posts. They disparage the system which produced decades of exceptional safety at CX while simultaneously believing themselves worthy of joining it without proper experience.
Make no mistake! Today's iCadets are nothing other than a byproduct of corporate greed which is willing to leverage flight safety for the smallest increases in profit margins. This error will manifest itself for decades to come, eventually contributing to a worst case scenario.
I really hope our C&Ters do their job properly before signing these guys to the line. Every new SO should be safe with the worst RFO in the company. Every JFO should be safe with the weakest captain on the fleet. That should be the standard. Is it???
To put it another way, you don't know what you don't know. Most cannot appreciate experience until they have some for themselves such that they have witnessed the difference it makes. It takes proper and unusual parental upbringing to accept this principle on blind faith.
I sense that most of our Indian commentators come from the upper wrung of the caste system which lends itself towards a sense of entitlement and looking down upon others. Both seem relevant to the general attitude we are reading in these posts. They disparage the system which produced decades of exceptional safety at CX while simultaneously believing themselves worthy of joining it without proper experience.
Make no mistake! Today's iCadets are nothing other than a byproduct of corporate greed which is willing to leverage flight safety for the smallest increases in profit margins. This error will manifest itself for decades to come, eventually contributing to a worst case scenario.
I really hope our C&Ters do their job properly before signing these guys to the line. Every new SO should be safe with the worst RFO in the company. Every JFO should be safe with the weakest captain on the fleet. That should be the standard. Is it???
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First off I need to say that I have no time for racism and some of the comments on this thread have been at best unpleasant. That said this thread, as has been stated, is about experience or rather the lack of it with the majority of replies reflecting that.
Primed
Your comments about IQ and maths would suggest you do pretty well in both areas. Sadly though in my opinion your analysis that these attributes will make for a good pilot are fundamentally wrong. The RAF would also agree with me. I was an instructor with the RAF and I remember one of my students who was chopped happened to be a maths grad with a Mensa IQ. One of the reasons for his departure was over confidence! High IQ and great maths ability does not = good pilot material just as having no degree and an average IQ does not = poor pilot material. Your comments on the subject combined with your lack of experience would suggest that you also are quite possibly over confident. That makes for a lethal mix and thus the fact that you feel somehow ready and deserving of a seat on the flt deck of any size pax jet fills me with real concern.
shivamjoshi
[QUOTEIndians have the propensity to work for lesser wages[/QUOTE]
If you think that is acceptable then you betray yourself and other indians.
Would you put your family on a pax jet if the CN said on his welcoming address “All the other pilots in this airline get paid more than me but as an Indian I do not feel that I am worth what they are being paid”? By the way we do have Indians on the flt deck in CX already do you think they should take a pay cut because they are Indian?
The difference between you and those that have already joined on the icadet scheme is that you believe you deserve less than your British/Aussie/NZ/HK/etc counterparts. They on the other hand have accepted their lower conditions of service, but when talking to them it is obvious they do not believe they are worth less.
They like you are being exploited by CX. Unlike the vast majority of them however, you seem to believe that is fair.
Primed
Your comments about IQ and maths would suggest you do pretty well in both areas. Sadly though in my opinion your analysis that these attributes will make for a good pilot are fundamentally wrong. The RAF would also agree with me. I was an instructor with the RAF and I remember one of my students who was chopped happened to be a maths grad with a Mensa IQ. One of the reasons for his departure was over confidence! High IQ and great maths ability does not = good pilot material just as having no degree and an average IQ does not = poor pilot material. Your comments on the subject combined with your lack of experience would suggest that you also are quite possibly over confident. That makes for a lethal mix and thus the fact that you feel somehow ready and deserving of a seat on the flt deck of any size pax jet fills me with real concern.
shivamjoshi
[QUOTEIndians have the propensity to work for lesser wages[/QUOTE]
If you think that is acceptable then you betray yourself and other indians.
Would you put your family on a pax jet if the CN said on his welcoming address “All the other pilots in this airline get paid more than me but as an Indian I do not feel that I am worth what they are being paid”? By the way we do have Indians on the flt deck in CX already do you think they should take a pay cut because they are Indian?
The difference between you and those that have already joined on the icadet scheme is that you believe you deserve less than your British/Aussie/NZ/HK/etc counterparts. They on the other hand have accepted their lower conditions of service, but when talking to them it is obvious they do not believe they are worth less.
They like you are being exploited by CX. Unlike the vast majority of them however, you seem to believe that is fair.
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shivamjoshi
[QUOTE]And since you are not jumping types, your learning is more specific to a single set of systems. In fact freshers becoming SO(s) is not nearly as bad as them becoming FO(s)/QUOTE]
That quote alone proves that you have not done any research into what your career progression would be.
So, you are not prepared to research the job you are going for, but you are prepared to lecture very experienced crews who cut their teeth in some of the most dangerous flying jobs this industry has to offer as to why you are deserving of a seat on a pax flt deck. Statistics say that with 250hrs there is a very good chance that even in a minor crisis you are likely to be a liability rather than an asset. You need to address your overconfidence and quickly. By the way CX never has let and for the sake of our pax I hope never will allow “Freshers to become FO’s"
God help us all if it really is true that the regular interviewers have been replaced. Some of the arrogance shown here is truly scary.
[QUOTE]And since you are not jumping types, your learning is more specific to a single set of systems. In fact freshers becoming SO(s) is not nearly as bad as them becoming FO(s)/QUOTE]
That quote alone proves that you have not done any research into what your career progression would be.
So, you are not prepared to research the job you are going for, but you are prepared to lecture very experienced crews who cut their teeth in some of the most dangerous flying jobs this industry has to offer as to why you are deserving of a seat on a pax flt deck. Statistics say that with 250hrs there is a very good chance that even in a minor crisis you are likely to be a liability rather than an asset. You need to address your overconfidence and quickly. By the way CX never has let and for the sake of our pax I hope never will allow “Freshers to become FO’s"
God help us all if it really is true that the regular interviewers have been replaced. Some of the arrogance shown here is truly scary.
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Off to Nigeria next and then Ivory Coast for some more recruiting. Cat E scales coming it. No housing, no schooling, you pay the company and even then the company will say that it's too much for them to afford.
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More than 12 year with CX: My apologies for most of the comments made here - racialistic and not acceptable at all - it's a shame!! What's the issue if young pilots from abroad - from whatever country and background, send an application to CX? And, btw, not all the 25 000 hours pilots here are great aviatiors - sometimes far away.. experience is one parameter of many when it comes to select the 'right' people. And again: CX sets the standards and it's there responsibilty to identify the skilled ones and offer them a contract.This thread shows quite clearly the IQ level of some participants..
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For you guys to think that these low time Indian pilots will make the airline unsafe.... get over your arrogant selves. Same was being said of the cadet program when it started, but how many cadet captains do we now have flying your families around. What makes you think that these Indian pilots aren't capable of being good pilots? You post as though they are joining DEC with 250 hours 
.... They will rise through the ranks same way as a cadet did, and by the time they get the left seat they will be more than ready with plenty of experience under their belt.
.... They will rise through the ranks same way as a cadet did, and by the time they get the left seat they will be more than ready with plenty of experience under their belt.
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Cathay management may also be looking for candidates who are financially capable to make the current package work in hong kong. It is quite apparent that western candidates are from countries that teach the type of financial advice that caused the recent economic crisis. Why not look to a country that is well known for its ability to create new opportunities where others cannot see them. 
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Well Primed, that is a very creative way of putting lipstick on a pig! Put another way CX might be saying, "Only come work here if you already have money because we are not going to pay you much." Isn't that what non-profits say? The only difference being that this company makes billions of Hong Kong Dollars every year. Inexcusable! Unless of course a bunch of idiots actually take the deal. Pull your heads out young men...
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The major aspect of this whole issue - Pakistanis, Indians or Côte Ivöirians aside - is that at very time the FAA, the most experienced (and innovative) regulating authority worldwide is RAISING experience levels for airline pilot entrants, Cathay, in it's infinite wisdom, is LOWERING them.
Make no mistake, these muppets that CX is successfully luring into these seats with vague promises of accelerated upgrade times and shiny new jets, are only a dodgy meal or a faulty valve away from making life altering decisions.
This is going to end badly, and we're allowing all the pieces of this impending tragedy to fall into place. Our pleas for sanity are being drowned out by the ring of the cash register. Time to blow the whistle, gents, and make the public aware of what's about to happen. It's a real shame the media in HKG is owned by our masters.
We are all collectively responsible when the day comes to explain to 300 grieving families why good men chose to do nothing...
Make no mistake, these muppets that CX is successfully luring into these seats with vague promises of accelerated upgrade times and shiny new jets, are only a dodgy meal or a faulty valve away from making life altering decisions.
This is going to end badly, and we're allowing all the pieces of this impending tragedy to fall into place. Our pleas for sanity are being drowned out by the ring of the cash register. Time to blow the whistle, gents, and make the public aware of what's about to happen. It's a real shame the media in HKG is owned by our masters.
We are all collectively responsible when the day comes to explain to 300 grieving families why good men chose to do nothing...
Last edited by Cpt. Underpants; 18th Mar 2012 at 21:10.
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Primed
Of course CX management are looking for candidates who think they can make the package work. Unlike you, they are not totally devoid of common sense. (I don’t care how big your IQ is you seem to have no common sense whatsoever) Why do you think the majority of new candidates are young and single? CX know that to live in HK you guys will rent together and thus for a few years the illusion that the deal is OK will just about hold. The problem will come when you want a family only then will the penny drop and will you realise just how poorly placed you are. Of course as you have said you think you will see opportunity where others don’t so perhaps you will find a way where everybody else has failed. Please let us know how you plan to have your kids educated without having to spend thousands of HKD per month. Then again perhaps your solution will be to not bother granting your children an education. At least that way you may all be able to eat something.
Perhaps you could ask the company if you could pay your own way to HK plus any hotel expenses for the interview. Maybe you could even pay them for giving you such a great opportunity flying big shiny jets should you be offered a position. I am sure they would jump at that chance.
I cannot believe you are a pilot because your posts get more farcical every day. At least the cadets already in CX know just how bad the deal is when projecting into the future hence the fact that many are already planning for when they are free of the forgivable loan.
Of course CX management are looking for candidates who think they can make the package work. Unlike you, they are not totally devoid of common sense. (I don’t care how big your IQ is you seem to have no common sense whatsoever) Why do you think the majority of new candidates are young and single? CX know that to live in HK you guys will rent together and thus for a few years the illusion that the deal is OK will just about hold. The problem will come when you want a family only then will the penny drop and will you realise just how poorly placed you are. Of course as you have said you think you will see opportunity where others don’t so perhaps you will find a way where everybody else has failed. Please let us know how you plan to have your kids educated without having to spend thousands of HKD per month. Then again perhaps your solution will be to not bother granting your children an education. At least that way you may all be able to eat something.
Perhaps you could ask the company if you could pay your own way to HK plus any hotel expenses for the interview. Maybe you could even pay them for giving you such a great opportunity flying big shiny jets should you be offered a position. I am sure they would jump at that chance.
I cannot believe you are a pilot because your posts get more farcical every day. At least the cadets already in CX know just how bad the deal is when projecting into the future hence the fact that many are already planning for when they are free of the forgivable loan.
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In Hong Kong, Rock Stars enjoy Pilot status...........
Now, whatever happened to Captain Toss Parker? I miss his enlightened posts.
Come back Toss, we love you
This thread is turning into 'bizarro world'.
If some of these posters here and on the Wannabes forum really are applicants, and not bored adolescents, wind-up merchants or management stooges, many of us, including the travelling public, need to be afraid. Very afraid.
Judging from these posts I would have serious doubts about the technical, practical and inter-personal skills of many of these individuals. The length and frequency of some of these missives would indicate a problem with priorities in life, and some of the posters display serious persecution complexes. How will these individuals will react to criticism, training and the unexpected, especially in the Cathay Pacific culture and global flying environment?
It may take at best, an incident, or at worst a tragedy for the company to revert to its previous very successful policy of paying 'good money for quality crew'.
If some of these posters here and on the Wannabes forum really are applicants, and not bored adolescents, wind-up merchants or management stooges, many of us, including the travelling public, need to be afraid. Very afraid.
Judging from these posts I would have serious doubts about the technical, practical and inter-personal skills of many of these individuals. The length and frequency of some of these missives would indicate a problem with priorities in life, and some of the posters display serious persecution complexes. How will these individuals will react to criticism, training and the unexpected, especially in the Cathay Pacific culture and global flying environment?
It may take at best, an incident, or at worst a tragedy for the company to revert to its previous very successful policy of paying 'good money for quality crew'.
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What is the cx culture and environment in flight operations?.. How do they critique, correct and train line entry pilots (second officers)? Is race a factor? Do they get physical in the cockpit especially at the controls? Are people inside nosy and gossips a lot?
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This thread is turning into 'bizarro world'.
How do we train S/Os? Beatings, mostly.
Is race a factor? Absolutely no Klingons allowed.
Do we get physical at he controls? You mean, like beatings? Yes, yes, we do.