new recruiting grounds for CX

[nitpicker330]

Whatever floats your boat, BUT have a think how you would feel if a bunch of other nationals decided to come to India accepting lower conditions than you were on.....

Even though your anger should be directed at the company you might still feel some resentment toward the individuals.

Please bear in mind that over the last 20 years there have been multiple attacks on the CX COS package causing quite a lot of officers to suffer delays in promotion or a loss of income. Don't expect us to welcome ANYONE accepting the current COS with open arms.

[smurf84]

Whatever floats your boat, BUT have a think how you would feel if a bunch of other nationals decided to come to India accepting lower conditions than you were on....

I hope many of you are aware there are hundreds of expat skippers working in India at the moment. I certainly don't have a problem with them. Earlier, there were thousands. There was never a brouhaha involving this issue. If I'm not mistaken, it is the DGCA that instructs the airlines to phase them out. Plus, there is and there will be no room for expat FOs in India.

Moreover, with the current salaries (roughly 3000 USD p.m for the FO and 8000 USD p.m for the Skipper) one can live a pretty good life in India. It can't get any lower than those figures. I have no complaints. It is only unfortunate that there aren't too many jobs in the local market which directly results in the condition of being desperate.

"The final proof of greatness lies in being able to endure criticism without resentment."

Elbert Hubbard

I have not the slightest feeling of resentment towards the company and the individuals here. This is just a forum where our views are shared and there may be a difference of opinion here on what is worthwhile and value for awareness about the company and its employees. Finally, I wish you luck in your fight against the system. You could be an inspiration for many of us in the near future.

[Oval3Holer]

nitpicker330, you said

Please bear in mind that over the last 20 years there have been multiple attacks on the CX COS package causing quite a lot of officers to suffer delays in promotion or a loss of income. Don't expect us to welcome ANYONE accepting the current COS with open arms.

Cathay pilots have no one except themselves to blame for lower conditions. Blaming the other guy is typical, though. To ostracize a pilot for accepting a job at certain pay when there is not a picket line to cross is hypocrisy.

[nitpicker330]

1/ I did say "until we grow some balls...."

2/ Have the Aussie expats in India accepted a crap COS
package? Indeed a worse COS than the locals?? NO

Anyway, you claim CX Pilots don't like Indians, I say it's not the nationality of the individual that is the problem.

[404 Titan]

smurf84

I hope many of you are aware there are hundreds of expat skippers working in India at the moment.

Yes we are aware of that. The difference is that Indian carriers needed experienced pilots to crew their massive expansion plans and that experience had to come from outside India, hence direct entry captains. For that experience though they had to pay accordingly, which only drove up T&C’s, not the other way around.

Moreover, with the current salaries (roughly 3000 USD p.m for the FO and 8000 USD p.m for the Skipper) one can live a pretty good life in India. It can't get any lower than those figures.

I hate to burst your bubble but that comment proves your naivety regarding the aviation industry. Airlines around the world have only just started to realise how much they can drive down T&C’s with the overwhelming use of green behind the ears inexperienced crews that we are jumping up and down about here. This dilution of experience has a very serious safety implication which unfortunately the bean counters running the airlines have a difficult time quantifying in their little bean counter world but when an airframe spears in, it will become quantifiable very quickly.

By way of interest how comfortably well do you think you can live in Hong Kong on the package being offered? Do you think your quality of living will be higher or lower than that in India working for an Indian carrier?

[Steve the Pirate]

404 Titan

For that experience though they had to pay accordingly, which only drove up T&C’s, not the other way around.

I don't mean to appear flippant or contentious but do you happen to know if this hiring of expat DECs drove up the T & Cs for locally employed pilots as well?

STP

[Sqwak7700]

I've said all I wanted to say, but I must comment on this:

India is home to some of the best tourist spots in the world.

Really! I mean come on, really? Surely you jest. You need to get out more buddy, it sounds like you haven't traveled much.

[smurf84]

By way of interest how comfortably well do you think you can live in Hong Kong on the package being offered? Do you think your quality of living will be higher or lower than that in India working for an Indian carrier?

I am not able to foresee the way of living in Hong Kong with the current package being offered. I do not wish to at the moment. Pardon me. It isn't the path of ignorance I chose to take, but it is simply an inevitable choice, which many of you find it difficult to understand, considering the horrid situation of unemployed pilots in India.

I don't expect anyone to empathize with us.

I hate to burst your bubble but that comment proves your naivety regarding the aviation industry.

My comment harbours only the Indian aviation industry (not global). The bubble still remains.

This dilution of experience has a very serious safety implication which unfortunately the bean counters running the airlines have a difficult time quantifying in their little bean counter world but when an airframe spears in, it will become quantifiable very quickly.

How has Cathay's safety record been till date (with the dilution of experience)? Just an honest question.

2/ Have the Aussie expats in India accepted a crap COS
package? Indeed a worse COS than the locals?? NO

Here comes the 'N' word yet again. There are plenty of young Aussie pilots who are currently applying for Cathay's Second Officer programme. Why is that? I know three guys who must be on those seats by now. You talk about Eastern Europeans, Asians taking up the offer (in these times) without looking into the future which would be a direct threat to your CoS. Who's to blame?

I'm very sure none of you would have turned it down when there are absolutely no jobs in the local market. Forget the airline industry, when 3 flying schools shut down in Sydney (due to poor management and misuse of funds), and I'm not joking, I remember a Chief Pilot who used to earn 8000 AUD per month was desperately looking for a job and he finally got into a school that paid him 3500 AUD per month. Wasn't that a decision made in unavoidable circumstances? The same applies to us. Infact, slightly better.

Let me say this again for one last time. If this needs to be sorted out, it's either your way (fight) or the highway (quit).

[smurf84]

Really! I mean come on, really? Surely you jest. You need to get out more buddy, it sounds like you haven't traveled much.

Yes, really. I may not have been to the Caribbean or Europe. I definitely know Australia is a beautiful country. But can you please tell me why millions of tourists from all over the world come to India every year? Mind you, people from US and UK top the list.

Since you're much into media reports and sources from the internet, why don't you go to this link and see for yourself. Like I said before, please try to get the bigger picture and quit complaining about our country. We, as international students, face a lot of problems in your country. We are always the victims of the dreaded 'R' word. But we tend to move on and look at the bigger picture.

Tourism in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

P.S. - I'm sure Jimmy Wales and the team picked this up from reliable sources.

[tipsy.skipsy]

... everyone who wishes to accept the contract with CX as an SO .. will only do so after considering all whats involved.

there are exceptions ... some people might be ignorant or shortsighted about the future , living conditions on lantau etc ... but at the end of the day if they are not happy with what they have signed up for they are not chained to a big shiny jet ... they are free to quit ( subject to contract conditions )

and then the question remains .. of people who make an informed decision...
like me , personally

1) i am happy with the pay and conditions
2) i don't mind the average to poor lifestyle
3) i don't have a family to take care of at the moment
4) i don't want a family for the next 5 years
5) i love hong kong food
6) i don't mind if my lifespan is shortened because of pollution
7) matchbox living feels just like home.
8) i want to get into a career airline .. early in my life
9) Id rather be employed than sit at home and watch porn

above all

10) I love to fly ------ I love to fly in a big shiny jet even more

i really don't care of what you current cx employees think of people who are happy to accept the current deal.

[cxorcist]

Smurf,

If you get here and after a few years at CX, all these comments you are reading (and in some cases vigorously opposing) will make sense. We see this all the time with new joiners who seem to have it all figured out before they join only to realize that many of the "haters" on Pprune were right all along.

You are obviously an intelligent young man who may very well do a nice job here, but do you really think you have enough perspective at age 21 to refute what all these experienced guys are writing? I know if I could go back and be 21 again, I would do a lot more seeking good advice and listening with a lot less talking and thinking I could figure it all out on my own. Reference Prov 11:14.

Cxorcist

[flyhardmo]

I am not able to foresee the way of living in Hong Kong with the current package being offered.

Yes you are. Its called research. You brag about your technology advanced society so you should be proficient enough to find out exactly what your living conditions will be.

But can you please tell me why millions of tourists from all over the world come to India every year?

Because its cheap

I don't want to talk too much about the colonial rule and there is no point bragging about it. The past is the past and we're working towards a better future

You obviously haven't learnt anything from history because you are allowing the colonials to screw you over once again. You can suger coat it and justify your actions all you want and since you trust the words of John Slosar so much, the truth will always be the truth no matter what you believe or words to that effect.

10) I love to fly ------ I love to fly in a big shiny jet even more
I really don't care of what you current cx employees think of people who are happy to accept the current deal

You won't be flying anything as an S/O so don't even bring that bullsh!t into the equation. If you don't care that's fine but don't ever let me catch you whinging because you screwed yourself over.

To all prospective S/O's regardless of nationality (yes Aussies,canucks, Brits yanks, euro's, Africans etc). if you think you deserve to occupy a seat on jet why do you believe you deserve to get paid Alot less than everyone else?

[nitpicker330]

Shiny Jet syndrome is alive and well all over the world and don't Managers just love to exploit it!!!

p.s. The honeymoon phase is quite short in the Harbour city, be warned.

[smurf84]

flyhardmo

Yes you are. Its called research. You brag about your technology advanced society so you should be proficient enough to find out exactly what your living conditions will be.

I'm doing my fair bit of research on the way of living with the help of my sources in Hong Kong. Whether I like it or not, is my headache. FYI, I haven't got the offer, still have a long way to go. Yet again, if you are so bothered about this issue, why aren't you using your resources to go against the management? I know it is easy for me to say it from my home, but I'm sure all of you with so much experience can find your way out of this mess. It is unfair to tell us 'Not to join the airline, go live somewhere else'. I can't be a victim of pessimism (baseless or not).

Because its cheap (referring to tourism in India)

Of course it's cheap. Is that the only reason why tourists prefer to come to India? I'm sorry, you can do better than that. Dirt is cheap. Would you still eat it? If you're living in Hong Kong, you're still breathing it right now out of no choice (else you can ignore my comment).

You obviously haven't learnt anything from history because you are allowing the colonials to screw you over once again.

I have and I am ready to fight along with others against any system that puts our glorified profession at peril (rather than pummeling the aspirations of young pilots). Before you draw us into the picture, how does it feel that the very same colonials are screwing you over. I find it amusing.

To all prospective S/O's regardless of nationality (yes Aussies,canucks, Brits yanks, euro's, Africans etc). if you think you deserve to occupy a seat on jet why do you believe you deserve to get paid Alot less than everyone else?

To all the current skippers and F/Os regardless of nationality - If you think you deserve to remain on that big seat and deserve to get paid a lot more than everyone else - again, again and again....fight for your rights !

cxorcist

If you get here and after a few years at CX, all these comments you are reading (and in some cases vigorously opposing) will make sense. We see this all the time with new joiners who seem to have it all figured out before they join only to realize that many of the "haters" on Pprune were right all along.

I couldn't agree with you more. Make no mistake, I have never mentioned in any of my posts that all the criticism made by the current pilots on this thread and others not making sense at all. I am young and I get to learn a lot from the CX pilots in this interesting debate.

[nitpicker330]

Smurf84

Whilst not trying to drag Nationalities into the equation I cannot help but direct your attention to another Thread which does seem to have a recurring theme!!

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/4...il-strike.html

Over stretched system perhaps? The holes in the Swiss Cheese seem to line up more over there!!

[smurf84]

Yes, I did follow the news on that incident.

An apparent miscalculation by the pilots led to the aircraft not touching down at the correct angle, leading to the tail strike.

And the news reporter was actually seated right next to the commander when a portion of the tail struck the ground?

We'll see what the report says.

You might want to be concerned about Jetstar pilots fumbling with incorrect flap settings, power calculation mistakes prior to take off.

I vaguely remember a Qantas flight (Sydney to Melbourne) having a tail strike in 2010 (may or may not be due to gusty conditions) and a few more incidents I've seen on Channel 9 and ABC during my stay in Australia. I'm just not willing to have a debate with regard to this matter.

Let's not get into all this now. We can go on forever. I've learned a lot from this thread.

[Captain Dart]

Jeeze Louise, how many long-winded and multitudinous posts from Smurf 84 do we have to endure ?

Is he really coming to Cathay Pacific? It's going to be a long night over the Pacific with this boy...(or is he a management stooge)?

[schweizer2]

I'll keep my sentences short if the contract was to be available for my signature

[smurf84]

Ha! You need not bear the brunt of my idle ramblings anymore.

[Spitfire88]

@nitpicker 330

Whatever floats your boat, BUT have a think how you would feel if a bunch of other nationals decided to come to India accepting lower conditions than you were on.....

Even though your anger should be directed at the company you might still feel some resentment toward the individuals.

This comming from a Australian whos working for a HK airline??

Please bear in mind that over the last 20 years there have been multiple attacks on the CX COS package causing quite a lot of officers to suffer delays in promotion or a loss of income. Don't expect us to welcome ANYONE accepting the current COS with open arms.

This has happened because of little or insignificant opposition from the unions and because of market conditions. To give this as a reason to hate new comers is wrong. Besides this is the first CX recruitment in India wt less than 100 pilots called for the initial. Hardly counts for indians stealing jobs or affecting salary trends...