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Hong Kong Airlines to London/Gatwick

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Hong Kong Airlines to London/Gatwick

Old 23rd Nov 2011, 00:16
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Don't try to defend the indefensible
Jetney is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2011, 00:28
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure how I got roped into this Alchohol, I'm pretty sure I never " wished " a hull loss upon them, but I do think they are a good candidate for one.
Despite the much exaggerated number of experienced KA and CX crew there ( prob 1/2 dozen max ) there are still a large number of incompetent muppets up the front. BTW, I am well aware of the abundance of incompetent muppets in CX/KA also.
HKA is a 5hit operation owned by lying muppets ( see ADBFs comments re Hainan or Lainan as anyone who has worked for them would call them ) and that is unlikely to ever change.
Enjoy your unpaid leave next time some disease or crisis sweeps through that polluted, overcrowded toilet
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 00:34
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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I didn't wish it, I said it was a forgone conclusion. Very different.

The only saving grace will be that their aircraft will have very light loads
AAIGUY is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2011, 01:28
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
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AAIGUY, I agree with Jizz. I think your last post, especially the second point, is wholly inappropriate and should be deleted.

STP
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 06:46
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Hong Kong Airlines to receive 50 aircraft by 2015

Its director Adam Tan had said that the group plans to build Hong Kong Airlines into a much bigger player in the market to compete with the territories' flag carrier Cathay Pacific.
Hong Kong Airlines to receive 50 aircraft by 2015
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 07:47
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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I think it is a very clever move. CX always boast that they can kill any lo-cost entries by beating them on price, on the basis that the front end revenue is what pays. If HKA can knock a hole in CXs premium market share, then that would be a master stroke.

BTW with all of the dilution on the 8th Floor and the 'we invented aviation' attitude at CX, I think it is unwise to crow about the likelihood of HKA leaving a smoking hole in the ground.
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 07:53
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 275
This whole 'debate' is just history repeating itself. So very familiar.

I heard all these same arguments when the LoCo's started to make major in-roads in europe. The forecast was that (due to the rapid expansion and low time promotions) there would soon be LoCo aeroplanes falling out of the skies all over the place.

The guys who made such forecasts would vehemently deny any desire to see that happen (just as you do). I'm sure they really didn't wish it. I'm sure you really don't. But it would be ever so helpful al the same - they could all say 'see, I told you so' and wallow in the personal vindication that might bring.

To be brutally honest, I might have felt the same myself back then. After all, the LoCo's were doing enormous harm to our profession, and still do. I didn't like it one bit (and I never worked for one).

And yet - and yet - I've had to accept - the simple fact was, as time passed and they grew ever bigger, the disasters did not happen! The LoCo's thrived in spite of all the doomsayers, and they've had good safety records, especially when measured against a 'Legacy Carrier' like Air France. Three hull losses (with fatalities) in recent years.....

Hong Kong hasn't been touched by this revolution in the business - yet. Cathay (and the subsidiary Dragonair) have really been insulated from the shock that has swept over Europe and the US because of the unique nature of the local market. But times are changing. As mass travel grows in China, a new (but tested) dynamic takes hold. The huddled masses want to fly - cheaply.
The Legacy Carriers will feel the pressure. Upstart carriers (like Air Asia) are doing in Asia what was done in Europe, and the US (and come to mention it - where are Air Asia's multiple hull losses?).

Luck plays a big role in all this - I'll give you that. And reputations are easily destroyed. But be careful what you wish for.

I think its great that CX and KA pilots are well paid btw. I think that's the benchmark for all to aspire to, rather than envy.
But unfortunately, I've lived through this before. I know how it starts, and I know how it ends. The new world order has finally landed on your doorstep.
You might as well try holding back the tide.

Last edited by Algol; 23rd Nov 2011 at 16:12.
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 09:53
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Devil

Busbert.. I think you're right.

David could slay Goliath, but it would have to be a southwest type model and it would need proper marketing. I've long thought that. Budget carrier, great website, easy booking, service reputation.. but that isn't HKA.

It's more like God vs Wingwong from Dalian who has no understanding how to do anything that isn't a group booking for a tour operator.

Its no secret I worked there 4 years ago.. it was progressive, grew from 1 airplane to about a dozen, but the SS came in and changed all that.. then it almost fell over and only had 2 planes a few months back.. now there are some 330's here.. I've seen nothing but protesting pax, engine failures and light loads.

Plans to fly 116 or so pax to London are just not economically viable. If they were to get a 380 with 30' seat pitch and 650 pax, I'd say they could make a go of it.

Their biggest ally, the mainland Hainan ownership, is their biggest liability.

Whilst we've all seen the Chinafication of Hong Kong, from my experience actually in China over 7 or so years, shows a gravitation towards Western ideals.

A carrier that could grasp both concepts is whats needed.

CX is not the answer.. CX ran by Air China.. maybe..
But that would swing too far East before they understood they were alienating the West.

But under the current mismanagement, the Chunts over @ HKA can barely sustain their losses, let alone deal with a new concept
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 14:44
  #29 (permalink)  
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Airbus A380s included HNA group for Hong Kong Airlines fleet | Plane Talking

b.
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 15:43
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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China Southern has one ( or 2??) operating
PEK- Ghuangzhaou.

Love to see it, but Doubt HKA will see one
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 15:47
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Dont worry chaps, I know a few of the mainly antipodean disgruntled few who were in HKA in the early days, the fact AAI mentions he was there before pinpoints himself with a fairly mediocre aviation background as the guys recruited in the early days were really picked from all corners mainly low hour guys with little or no jet experience, those days HKA were really desperate and this chap was one of them. His bleating on about economic viability of premium routes and hull loss probability is utter ignorance from an individual who himself was recruited at the bottom end of the job market all those years ago.
Unfortunately guys like him and the others who were in the 73 HKA ops in the beggining all have a degree of bitterness as the airline is now moving on,pulling quality crew in...unfortunately he left the boat thinking it was about to sink and it must hurt to see it booming.
Its obvious as these guys (AAI and HKfooey) though moved on in new ventures are still trawling these pages...only those with regret would take such an avid interest now..chaps move on and enjoy your new jobs,m those that are in there now, many from reputable backgrounds are quite happy with the conditions which with the new package is quite above the average CX/KA salary although admittedly from my drinking chums who are skippers there, the housing allowance needs a top up for HK standards.

I hope the premium route does do well, according to planning its a viable idea and I hope it remains that way as I will jumping on it to London at least once a month if the costing is less than CX.
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 15:59
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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AAIGUY

I operated Paris - Amsterdam. 50 minutes taxi , 45 minutes flight, 4 (four) pax, at least the inbound flight had 9 (nine). Good loads according to the ground staff, they have seen 0 ( zero's)

Last edited by CXtreme; 23rd Nov 2011 at 16:18.
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Old 24th Nov 2011, 00:10
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Out of the pollution.
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Joined for big expansion and quick command
Sadly it turned out to be a joke.

And HKA can't post ... English second language and all..
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Old 24th Nov 2011, 04:00
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Ah Mr 5 post 'dogstick'
Change your handle much?

Actually joined HKA in early days with several
years on B747.. As well most of my other
colleagues, including Fooy , had years of jet
background.

It was quite the opposite.
Crews were highly experienced initially, including a
couple of 49ers, EK/FAA training Capts.
And everyone one who left.. Which was everyone
moved on to KA, CX, Metrojet ect.


If HKA had a new pay package, it would be
out and guys would leave KA or CX

Sadly your entire post is untrue



What is true is that your 'professional' HKA crews
tuned the wrong ILS and landed on the wrong
runway the other day.

Like a said - HKA is group of clowns

Last edited by AAIGUY; 24th Nov 2011 at 05:44.
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Old 24th Nov 2011, 08:00
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Uk
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747 experienced and you joined a relatively crappy new 73 outfit when in those days most experience was hunting the bigger jobs? strange career move but this isnt about you.
I dont post on PPRuNe normally, but the posts I saw here just prompted me to, HKA is far from perfect and is not my concern how they do though I have an interest in HK as have been here so long. I do just see it as a shame that all companies start from humble begginings, and those that were there during the rough days brand it as such forever. I saw EK in the early days,same was said about that too. I know some of the new chaps joining HKA and they are from fairly big experience on 330, some of whom my colleagues from a long way back in Europe. To suggest or predict hull loss is just wrong, and yes there may be clowns there but just remember there are clowns everywhere...its the nature of the job.
There have been some fairly major screw ups with the big carriers with high experience crews, wrong weights, wrong runways etc and vigilance is required whatever your passport or license. There are guys,ex pals of mine still in CX/KA...who are looking and would jump to HKA...its the shiny new outfit thats booming,and especially for FOs the career path is rosier...however..HKA could never compete with the housing allowance that CX offers so its not an option....and at the same time there is word HKA isnt too keen on the competition either...understand from sources there are many KA applications on the desk...and ignored. Theres too much interest from Bus qualified guys in the desert.

Bottom line in all this, do you see any bleating from current HKA crew? no..those that are there are happy with the new T and C's ..and arent even checking this out, those that are complaining and morbid are those that left HKA...that says it all really.

Cheers
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Old 25th Nov 2011, 10:16
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: asia
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Dogstick, your credibility went from zero to somewhere south of that. As AAI said, HKA lured plenty of experienced drivers with typical Chinese lies and BS, the fact that you call us bitter, low experience drivers just confirms that you know jack 5hit about us or HKA, git.
hongkongfooey is offline  
Old 25th Nov 2011, 23:41
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: India
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Devil

The Chinese commies should just walk in and haul all these 2 miscreant off to their gulag for re-education
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Old 29th Nov 2011, 21:39
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Ticket sales just opened.

Tried a simulation. 77,309.00 HKD for a return ticket

Same dates / times / class on CX is worth 55,702.00 HKD

=========================================================

Review Your Flight Details
Hong Kong to London
Monday, March 19, 2012

Departure: 23:50 Hong Kong, Hong Kong (SAR of China) - Hong Kong International, terminal 1
Arrival: 05:55 +1 day(s) London, United Kingdom - Gatwick
Flight: Hong Kong Airlines HX875 e
Duration: 14h05m
Aircraft: Airbus Industrie A330
Class: Business

London to Hong Kong
Friday, March 23, 2012

Departure: 21:30 London, United Kingdom - Gatwick
Arrival: 17:45 +1 day(s) Hong Kong, Hong Kong (SAR of China) - Hong Kong International, terminal 1
Flight: Hong Kong Airlines HX876 e
Duration: 12h15m
Aircraft: Airbus Industrie A330
Class: Business

Legend:
e = e-ticket,
HKD = Hong Kong Dollar
Price Details
Passenger(s) Airfares Taxes
1 adult(s) x (74,810.00 + 2,499.00) = 77,309.00 HKD
Total for all passengers 77,309.00 HKD

==================================================
igtl is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2011, 00:27
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Location: Above the Transition Level
Posts: 158
I wonder if there will be more fare paying passengers or off duty paxing crew on this flight
Is it not good business sense to undercut the competition initially?
ElitePilot is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2011, 04:14
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 275
Dude, you chose the flights on the first week of operation, when its already sold out to VIP guests and Media invitees.
FAIL.

Here's a sample from a month later - same travel days (Mon/Fri);

Review Your Flight Details

Hong Kong to London

Monday, April 16, 2012

Departure: 23:50 Hong Kong, Hong Kong (SAR of China) - Hong Kong International, terminal 1
Arrival: 05:55 +1 day(s) London, United Kingdom - Gatwick
Flight: Hong Kong Airlines HX875 e
Duration: 13h05m
Aircraft: Airbus Industrie A330

Class: Business

London to Hong Kong

Friday, April 20, 2012

Departure: 21:30 London, United Kingdom - Gatwick
Arrival: 16:45 +1 day(s) Hong Kong, Hong Kong (SAR of China) - Hong Kong International, terminal 1
Flight: Hong Kong Airlines HX876 e
Duration: 12h15m
Aircraft: Airbus Industrie A330

Class: Business

Price Details
Passenger(s) Airfares Taxes
1 adult(s) x (43,700.00 + 2,645.00) = 46,345.00 HKD
Total for all passengers 46,345.00 HKD

Cathay is 51,375HKD same days.
Algol is offline  

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