Housing
treboryelk, you are close to the mark however the latest round of skullduggery has a number of remaining ASL Captains visiting the new DFO in a push to remove restrictive practices of flying freighters only, stating that they are trained to the same standards so why cant they fly the pax a/c.
They had their chance to join the common seniority list in 2000 and now they want to revisit their options again some 10 years later.
Pax commands out of seniority? These self serving individuals will stop at nothing to feather their own nest at the expense of others.
They had their chance to join the common seniority list in 2000 and now they want to revisit their options again some 10 years later.
Pax commands out of seniority? These self serving individuals will stop at nothing to feather their own nest at the expense of others.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope LEPs do get a housing allowance. I will then expect to receive a lump sum payment for my initial training costs. I will then seek another payment for my experience built over the 5000 hours of flying in 22 different types with 3 different operators.
Most LEPs are too inexperienced, even after 10 years in CX to know just how inexperienced they are.
The only times in CX that I have been seriously concerned for my safety has been when a LEP Capt has been in the cockpit with me.
I am all for an improvement in anyones COS, but LEPs are not the equal of Direct Entry pilots. Never will be.
Most LEPs are too inexperienced, even after 10 years in CX to know just how inexperienced they are.
The only times in CX that I have been seriously concerned for my safety has been when a LEP Capt has been in the cockpit with me.
I am all for an improvement in anyones COS, but LEPs are not the equal of Direct Entry pilots. Never will be.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: HKG
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
....The only times in CX that I have been seriously concerned for my safety has been when a LEP Capt has been in the cockpit with me...:-), please send me a short notice, when you are in the cockpit again to rebook ,review my travel plans
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope LEPs do get a housing allowance. I will then expect to receive a lump sum payment for my initial training costs. I will then seek another payment for my experience built over the 5000 hours of flying in 22 different types with 3 different operators.
Most LEPs are too inexperienced, even after 10 years in CX to know just how inexperienced they are.
The only times in CX that I have been seriously concerned for my safety has been when a LEP Capt has been in the cockpit with me.
I am all for an improvement in anyones COS, but LEPs are not the equal of Direct Entry pilots. Never will be.
Most LEPs are too inexperienced, even after 10 years in CX to know just how inexperienced they are.
The only times in CX that I have been seriously concerned for my safety has been when a LEP Capt has been in the cockpit with me.
I am all for an improvement in anyones COS, but LEPs are not the equal of Direct Entry pilots. Never will be.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't agree with you, anyhow that sounds more like a rant than anything else. In my 777 days I did a number of trips with local guys and even tho the operation was conservative, I would not have thought twice about putting my wife and kids on. These guys deserved their command fair and square. Having been on the 400 now and seen the standard of some of our early/direct/Dragon air commands........holy sh1t !!! Not ever would my family fly with these guys. Just look at the fdap reports.. Cathay is closer than they have ever been in my time to having a hull loss, with these jokers at the helm. Management like to bleet on that they have the same standard for all, but those of us on the fleet know the truth and I am fairly confident the fleet office does too. Early/direct/Dragon Captains on the pax fleet........excuse me while I throw up in my mouth! 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Retired-ville
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CXhk wrote:
Reckon you've been watching too much MontyPython
Guess you're a LEP then? Can't guess what gave it away
Likelihood remains, if the company take the stance there is only so much money in the mud-hut fund, by giving some of it to the LEP faction, there is every chance it will be to the detriment of the expat mud-hut pot of money.
Net result is LEP's get something they were not entitled to, and the expats see yet another degradation to their T&C's.
But with regard to abilities, I have flown with a number of very good LEP's, admittedly on normal ops and no dramas to deal with. I have also flown with a few DEFO who are by their limited exposure to cx occasionally a little shakey even in their normal ops. Read into that what you will.
We are all pilots.
I have flew with many Direct Entry Pilot....
Likelihood remains, if the company take the stance there is only so much money in the mud-hut fund, by giving some of it to the LEP faction, there is every chance it will be to the detriment of the expat mud-hut pot of money.
Net result is LEP's get something they were not entitled to, and the expats see yet another degradation to their T&C's.
But with regard to abilities, I have flown with a number of very good LEP's, admittedly on normal ops and no dramas to deal with. I have also flown with a few DEFO who are by their limited exposure to cx occasionally a little shakey even in their normal ops. Read into that what you will.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: db
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Housing and pay
I think the time is right to stop negotiating over the promised 25 year housing, I can easily live with my current contract for 14 years and 11 months in house purchase scheme, then move to max rental possible (having sold or rented my pad out). Wouldn't this make everyone happy??
Lets leave housing as it is, and concentrate on pay, no side tracking and nothing ruled out in response to negotiatins in bad faith.
Lets leave housing as it is, and concentrate on pay, no side tracking and nothing ruled out in response to negotiatins in bad faith.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
Age: 47
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anybody that still takes Cathay's word as promise is a friggin' idiot and deserves the consequences of them braking that promise. When will this membership ever learn?
And if you are not in contract compliance you deserve it even more.
And if you are not in contract compliance you deserve it even more.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: db
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Money talks
Dear Dan Buster, I agree completely with you, my point in a round-about way, was to suggest that the crrect response to the company's inaction should be for each and everyone of us to extract the maximum cash from them until they see sense. It would be, after all, be cheaper to have us all purchasing homes, than renting at the max. So I say no more negaotiations over something already promised, and in return I promise to make it as expensive as possible until I have my housing unconditionally extended to the agreed 25 years.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
COME ON!!
Surely, for the love of god, there should be no ambiguity, no side-tracking, no negotiating.......the full HK housing should remain available to all Cathay Pacific passenger pilots who are based in HK, or will be in the future.
HK housing allowance has, and always will be, the way HK-based guys actually make money. Breathing that stinking air, being exposed to the mainland bacterial/viral filth that makes it way to HK, paying $38 for four imported tomatoes and $39 for a safe litre of milk, is only worth it if families get HK$55K (or more) per month to pay the mortgage.
Of all the issues that should be the line in the sand, this is the one. The guys that agreed to the $24K made the deal until their time comes to hold a passenger seniority regardless of rank, not forever.
Let's get f#cking real....
Surely, for the love of god, there should be no ambiguity, no side-tracking, no negotiating.......the full HK housing should remain available to all Cathay Pacific passenger pilots who are based in HK, or will be in the future.
HK housing allowance has, and always will be, the way HK-based guys actually make money. Breathing that stinking air, being exposed to the mainland bacterial/viral filth that makes it way to HK, paying $38 for four imported tomatoes and $39 for a safe litre of milk, is only worth it if families get HK$55K (or more) per month to pay the mortgage.
Of all the issues that should be the line in the sand, this is the one. The guys that agreed to the $24K made the deal until their time comes to hold a passenger seniority regardless of rank, not forever.
Let's get f#cking real....
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Western Hemisphere
Age: 41
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AOA Update 8/17/10
Rumours that the HKAOA is planning to negotiate to trade pay rises for housing, or vice versa, have no basis in fact.
AOA Update 8/31/10
The talks on Housing also continue. Members can expect to receive a detailed update in the next few days. Whilst our talks specifically cover the issues surrounding housing, it has become very clear that the Company’s view of the future Cathay Pacific career is significantly different to ours. There is a real danger that the goalposts could be moving - significantly.
I guess things have changed in the last two weeks and the rumour mill wasn't so wrong. Or management floated the rumours on PPrune before presenting them to the AOA.
Rumours that the HKAOA is planning to negotiate to trade pay rises for housing, or vice versa, have no basis in fact.
AOA Update 8/31/10
The talks on Housing also continue. Members can expect to receive a detailed update in the next few days. Whilst our talks specifically cover the issues surrounding housing, it has become very clear that the Company’s view of the future Cathay Pacific career is significantly different to ours. There is a real danger that the goalposts could be moving - significantly.
I guess things have changed in the last two weeks and the rumour mill wasn't so wrong. Or management floated the rumours on PPrune before presenting them to the AOA.
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Nirvana
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There can be NO negotiation on housing other than what they agreed to already.
This is not part of the pay negotiations! It's a separate issue and at no time should the AOA allow this to be part of those negotiations.
This is not part of the pay negotiations! It's a separate issue and at no time should the AOA allow this to be part of those negotiations.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NTH&STH,EAST&WEST
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bob Hawke, I agree completely.
AOA needs to be careful here and not give away conditions of the majority and the main draw card for us for a minority who agreed to their conditions on joining.
If LEP's can get some improvement, well good on them, but NOT to the loss of expats, who were only encouraged here with incentive.
If expat housing goes, I would certainly strike!!! Leave it to the locals to hold it together.
I enjoy HK and the culture, but I'm only here for ONE reason. And I mean that respectfully to HKers.
NO HOUSING-----------No work!!!
AOA needs to be careful here and not give away conditions of the majority and the main draw card for us for a minority who agreed to their conditions on joining.
If LEP's can get some improvement, well good on them, but NOT to the loss of expats, who were only encouraged here with incentive.
If expat housing goes, I would certainly strike!!! Leave it to the locals to hold it together.
I enjoy HK and the culture, but I'm only here for ONE reason. And I mean that respectfully to HKers.
NO HOUSING-----------No work!!!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: same place
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's all about short term gain for the greedy managers and f#ck sustainability. It's obvious now that they don't see this place as a viable career and now they're just taking the piss out of us. They don't care, they'll always find some monkey of the street willing to take our place for peanuts.
I'm hacked off with this culture, not just in aviation, the drive to the bottom in search of profits. The few at the top reap all the benefits, looting all and sundry beneath them.
I'm hacked off with this culture, not just in aviation, the drive to the bottom in search of profits. The few at the top reap all the benefits, looting all and sundry beneath them.
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Nirvana
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When will enough be enough, for those greedy pigs with their heads in the trough? This is so much like Animal Farm, I can hardly believe it!
TO THE MANAGERS!
Recognise this. We are also stakeholders in the Company and we are equally important in its day to day operations, even more-so - (try working without us!) and it's our every desire to see the company thrive and grow, but YOU must recognise our contribution and reward us accordingly.
Continual eroding of conditions is going to bring about extreme dissatisfaction and I can assure that you only have to sit in the cockpit and listen day in and day out, about the dramas, pressures, missed opportunities, co-ersion, and other tactics applied by the company that will manifest itself in some extremely negative fashion, either industrially or operationally. You are bringing this about, and YOU know that one of the criticisms from a recent auditing event mentioned & highlighted this. Read the signals carefully.
CX is one of the most pre-eminent airlines in the world and I would say that in a large part you have the pilots to thank. Get your heads out of your posteriors and recognise this!
Now where was I; oh yes, reviewing cage growth opportunities.
TO THE MANAGERS!
Recognise this. We are also stakeholders in the Company and we are equally important in its day to day operations, even more-so - (try working without us!) and it's our every desire to see the company thrive and grow, but YOU must recognise our contribution and reward us accordingly.
Continual eroding of conditions is going to bring about extreme dissatisfaction and I can assure that you only have to sit in the cockpit and listen day in and day out, about the dramas, pressures, missed opportunities, co-ersion, and other tactics applied by the company that will manifest itself in some extremely negative fashion, either industrially or operationally. You are bringing this about, and YOU know that one of the criticisms from a recent auditing event mentioned & highlighted this. Read the signals carefully.
CX is one of the most pre-eminent airlines in the world and I would say that in a large part you have the pilots to thank. Get your heads out of your posteriors and recognise this!
Now where was I; oh yes, reviewing cage growth opportunities.
Last edited by Bob Hawke; 5th Sep 2010 at 15:15.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: az
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Increase the base rate do the current variable rate, and get rid of any time limit (15 or 25 years). Seems simple enough.
Last edited by airplaneridesrfun; 6th Sep 2010 at 07:49.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: same place
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see another baffling AOA newsletter has been released. Honestly I think the company and this travesty of an organisation are in cahoots. Would the company have latched on to the Racial Descrimination ordinance if the AOA hadn't sighted it as an issue in the trying to win housing for current CEPS's? I hardly think so.
This whole RDO thing is just a smokescreen in order to employ future pilots on reduced terms and they have the audacity to introduce it in connection with our efforts to increase housing assistance to 25 years, which had already been promised with no strings attached. How can they talk of racism, when now all future employs are being discriminated against based upon date of joining. What's next, a new ordinance issued called the Inferior Contract Discrimination Ordinance IDO for short? The whole thing is a joke, it's like watching Monty Phython.
This whole RDO thing is just a smokescreen in order to employ future pilots on reduced terms and they have the audacity to introduce it in connection with our efforts to increase housing assistance to 25 years, which had already been promised with no strings attached. How can they talk of racism, when now all future employs are being discriminated against based upon date of joining. What's next, a new ordinance issued called the Inferior Contract Discrimination Ordinance IDO for short? The whole thing is a joke, it's like watching Monty Phython.