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The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines

Old 14th Mar 2008, 09:48
  #61 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dad's Bag
Posts: 134
You want to know what the t &c's are? Well they are sh!t. There are you happy now?
Blown Seal is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2008, 11:50
  #62 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Greek Islands
Age: 99
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If you're from anywhere in SE Asia, it's an attractive package- especially since you are cheap labour... the new Nazi regime came in and committed genocide of all the kiwis, aussies, poms, and yanks coz they know their worth. But the regime know that they can propaganda-rise all the asians in the region to come and work under 'local' conditions with no housing and subsequently work for 50% less than all the other ex-pat pilots.

The holocaust by the Fuhrer and his Party is working, so there's plenty of jobs.... you'll literally have no trouble getting a job if you're Singaporean, Malaysian, Indonesian, Chinese, Indian etc... they know you'll be more than happy to rent a dog kennel for 5K a month, so you won't be worried about not getting a decent housing package.

More resignations in the coming week. A warm welcome to all the Adam Air applicants. Introducing new crew meals soon: Nasi Goreng and Beef Rendang....

Heil Hitler!
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Old 14th Mar 2008, 14:19
  #63 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 9
back home I know for sure you are cheap labour with prop. hour..otherwise you wont be here

''More resignations in the coming week..''
good to hear..going to CX(be 2nd FO)/ KA? or maybe AHK(follow n****e)

i suggest go to EK/QR/SV..they need ''eXperience'' guy like you(dont forget gain some Jet hour before you leave)
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Old 14th Mar 2008, 15:02
  #64 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Carribean Coast
Posts: 23
SANDU, obviously you are one of "immigrant" expats by your tone.

Should Any OU/HX pilot go to be a

CX SO he would earn on average 40 % more than if had stayed

KA FO he would earn on average 300% more than had he stayed

And in both postitions have benefits such as staff travel in Business Class, a medical scheme that actually paid out when a claim was submitted, proper home to live in, not a Tung Chung Shoe box.

Don't you worry, guys will be hitting EK and QR too. I FO's with interviews @ both. IIRC, 2 lads recently turned down EK to go KA.... Lot's of choices for the experienced FO's from HKA..
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Old 14th Mar 2008, 15:47
  #65 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Age: 99
Posts: 12
Don't worry boys... I hear a bit of Bob Marley: "Stir it up, little darlin' stir it up...."

Back at ya Sandu! Back home, I know for sure YOU TOO are 'a' cheap labour..... otherwise you wouldn't be coming here!!!!!

You're a bright spark aren't you Sandman??? Earlier posts have pointed out your lack of intelligence, so our colleagues have kindly done the maths for you.

In the words of our Fuhrer: "We've done our maths, have you done your maths??"

Your ego obviously overrides your intelligence, so enjoy your time at HKA as a F/O or Capt... and while your salary will have bottomed out even as a captain, the rest of us will be earning more than that even as a S/O or F/O... Salute! On ya mate!!!!!

Ozzie ozzie ozzie, Oi oi oi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 14th Mar 2008, 16:08
  #66 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 9

good to hear... you will have more money..at last

happy happy happy joy joy joy
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Old 14th Mar 2008, 21:05
  #67 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: london
Age: 35
Posts: 23
Sorry for being a dumbass, but can someone confirm to me that HKA is Oasis and HKE is Hong Kong Express?

Disregard the above! I did search HKA and Hong Kong Airlines and google screwed me, sent me straight to what I now know is OHK!!!! Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Last edited by craigbell; 14th Mar 2008 at 21:33.
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Old 15th Mar 2008, 00:37
  #68 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: asia
Posts: 950
Oh I don't know, the prop time seems to keep us out of the dirt, unlike some other countries with all their jet experience
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Old 15th Mar 2008, 08:05
  #69 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 9
@eric is a loser

dont like it...just go....so many job outside...
but wait...you dont have enough hour....yeah yeah
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Old 15th Mar 2008, 09:15
  #70 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Out of the pollution.
Posts: 676
Sandu, you are such an idiot

Even the 14 white guys and gals that were fired ALL have jobs with other airlines (and respectable).

Any western pilot still @ HKA is there only waiting on a course date with another carrier.

HKA had some seriously experienced people with varied backgrounds capable of filling roles that were created with the expansion.

All HKA has now is an accident waiting to happen.
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Old 15th Mar 2008, 11:29
  #71 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 9
for 14 guys..I feel sorry for what happened.but happy to hear that got a job already..i wish them happy in their new place.

but for those who always saying pilot from SE Asia is a third class pilot..cheap labour. thats an offensive..very insulting.
are you saying all western pilot the ''most'' of all???whos an idiot now??? hopefully not you
Peace man...i dont like to have enemies..but I wont tolerate to some ''group'' keep saying negative words to pilot from SE Asia
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Old 15th Mar 2008, 11:53
  #72 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Out of the pollution.
Posts: 676
You'd have a great case Sandu, Except the Racism started when the 14 pilots were let go
and other MUCH lower time SE Asian pilots were hired.

Its that simple.

We were a very diverse and international group who worked well together and liked each other.

Now the current management has changed that and created the prejudice.

Wasn't it you who said the western pilots HAD to stay as they had "little experience and no hrs.." I think if I scroll up .. yes.. yes it was you.

Edit. Just in from pool and thought I would reread this to see if I was over the top.

This time I wasn't. In fact I want to further add I had the great pleasure on my type course of being paired with a gentleman from China, previously an Air Force pilot.

He is among one of the best pilots I have ever flown with.

All the issues with HKA started 3 months ago. We didnt' start the fire.

Last edited by AAIGUY; 15th Mar 2008 at 12:43.
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Old 15th Mar 2008, 14:56
  #73 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 566

Sorry for any thread drift but your statement " he is among one of the best pilots I have ever flown with " caught my attention.

Could I just ask if you are refering to any specific aspect (manipulation/communication/situational awareness/systems knowledge/CRM etc etc) of his operation or making a general overall observation/assessment??

Just interested.
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Old 15th Mar 2008, 15:59
  #74 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: S.H.
Posts: 9
Let's not get into too much mud slinging here.

The fact remains a localisation policy in an airline with a workforce on expatriate has merit, namely financial and a lower staff turnover.

HOWEVER....HKA/HKE, whilst employing expatriate staff DO NOT employ them on expat terms. Thus, no financial benefit in localising. Additionally, there are no 'local' pilots in HKG. There's no GA sector, no regional airlines, no Sammy CPL's flying meat bombers on weekends to draw from. ALL pilots (save cadets from CX/KA) are expats. So to wantonly fire 14 professional, motivated and QUALIFIED gwailoh pilots amounts to nothing more than ethnic cleansing.

History has shown (Zimbabwe, Malaysia, etc) that when people are employed on the basis of race and not merit...inefficiency and inadequacy result. Whilst that may be tolerable in an accounting firm, a consultancy or your local Park N Shop....it has FATAL CONSEQUENCES in an aeroplane. Darwinian theory should be culling the incompetent so only the strongest survive (to pilot transport category aircraft).

Singapore Mafia: Missing your Satay and Otak Otak BBQ on East Coast Park? Well keep some in the fridge ladies cos you'll soon have the charred remains of a 737 to roast them over.
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Old 15th Mar 2008, 20:23
  #75 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: earth
Posts: 9
The truth

I would love to see all the airlines in Hong Kong trying their best to localize their pilot teams. Although it takes time, "There is a dream, there is a will." Moreover, I would like to see every pilot in this planet will get his/her pay rise in which meet his/her desire. Unfortunately it doesn't happen as what I wish.

I have my sympathy with what you all are earning now. Since you all have to live in a city with such a high living cost.

No matter how you scream in this forum, it won't change the fact that this is how it is. I wonder what happened to your own race, when they were in charge of the flight department. Why didn't they fight a better package for you all? Otherwise, you all don't have to scream at the tip of your lungs for a better conditions & terms now. In addition, why did they have to suggest or accept such an intolerant of package from the company in the first place anyway? The previous flight department should have known how high the living cost is in Hong Kong. Moreover, they should have also known how good the packages are in KA & CX.

When you all first joined the airlines, you had already comprehended how much you would make monthly 'cause it should be specified in the contract, which means you have been mentally prepared to stand for the low salary for a couple of years until you have enough experiences to walk away (if this is what you have planned.)

If I were you all, I wouldn't just scream and yell in this forum. I would escalate it into next level either strike or walk way right now.

Last edited by S.E.Pilot; 15th Mar 2008 at 21:00.
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Old 16th Mar 2008, 01:59
  #76 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
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HKA needs to duplicate the model Jet & Kingfisher have used in India, the expats come in for 12-24 mths based on their expertise and are given clear expectations once there are enough local Indian pilots the expat will leave.

This kind of transparency does not create a rift between pilots and keeps the expats happy as the management has given the expectations in advance so no surprise let alone fire 14 qualified pilots....

We all know the "great" Capt L from CAAS...he created all kinds of hell at Alteon then 2 months later applied for a job

any one has contact of N.H. pls pm me. thks.
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Old 16th Mar 2008, 02:48
  #77 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dad's Bag
Posts: 134
Dear S.E. Pilot,
some thoughts in response to your post:

- You would like to see all of the airlines in HK localize their pilot workforce, do you mean only people from HK or the region? The point is moot really as the countries in the Asian region either have little or no General Aviation from which to draw pilots from. Not all former airforce pilots are suitable to fly in an airline either (the piloting of an aircraft by a former Indonesian Colonel in Phuket springs to mind). So where are all of these pilots going to come from to meet the unprecedented growth in the airlines of HK (and Asia)? Think the the new MPL will solve all problems? Think again, it really won't be much better than the current cadet schemes airlines like CX and KA already have in place in solving crewing problems, and as an afterthought of all of the applicants to these programs, how many people actually successfully pass and end up in the LHS? I suspect that ratio would be very small.

- Thanks for your sympathy, here is some information as to how expensive HK is and how it has been increasing:
Talking purely about rent and no other living costs, my apartment went up 20% after the first 2 year lease. Wages have certainly not even kept close to this sort of increase.

- The previous Flight Ops management were fighting for better conditions for us, but, in typical Chinese style they were smiled at and lied to at the same time by the senior management and when their backs turned they were covered in knives. The package that the previous flt ops management presented to their bosses would have actaully kept people had it been approved. The current package presented by the new management is successful, in making people look for other jobs. Which is what they want anyway.

-Finally strike or walk away? Well going on strike, what does that achieve? A good outcome for both the management and the pilots? I don't think so So walk away huh? I think the evidence is pretty clear that this is already happening, as a colleague previously posted people are only waiting to get another job.

I am unfotunately of the view as well that a smoking hole in the ground, over run etc is only a matter of time.
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Old 16th Mar 2008, 03:02
  #78 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Posts: 134
Left Wing,
It is no use comparing HK to India, India has hundreds of young aspiring pilots with fresh cpl's, HK doesn't. Don't you think CX and KA would have hired them already if there were???
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Old 16th Mar 2008, 06:00
  #79 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 16
Thumbs up HKA Management: Down For The Count!

Any witnesses to round one of the "HKA Management versus the Rest" World Series at the Stars Bar on the 14th?

Apparently the score is 0-1, with the HKA management rep. down for a technical knockout in the first round. He was apparently feeling a little "Wu-zy".

Eric Cheng-Kok is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2008, 07:39
  #80 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: No Fixed Abode
Posts: 204
Hey Sandu, before you start pulling the "there's nothing wrong with our standards, you are just racists" card, you may wish to check the following FACTS. I know that it is the local custom to pretend that a problem does not exist and that if you deny it for long enough the problem may just go away, but this WILL NOT.

Indonesia takes air safety standards back five years

Steve Creedy, Aviation writer | December 03, 2007

AIR safety has taken a significant backwards step, with crashes in Indonesia helping push this year's global aviation accident rate back to 2002 levels.
The disappointing slip came after a decade-long campaign by international airlines to halve the accident rate produced the safest 12 months on record last year.
A reminder of Indonesia's troubled air system came at the weekend when one of the country's busiest airports, at Medan, was closed indefinitely after a fire razed the domestic passenger terminal.
Preliminary results for this calendar year from the International Air Transport Association show an accident rate of 0.9 aircraft losses for every million flights, up from 0.65 for 2006.
Crashes in Indonesia, including the fatal accident at Yogyakarta that killed five Australians in March, pushed the Asia-Pacific rate up to a sobering 3.27 losses for every million flights.
The increase in the accident rate comes at a time the aviation industry is growing at 5-6 per cent a year and means the absolute number of crashes will rise accordingly.
It also undermines a push by the International Air Transport Association to cut the accident rate by a further 25 per cent by the end of next year.
IATA director-general Giovanni Bisignani described the result as "a big step backwards". He said some areas were doing well and there had been no accidents in the Middle East or North Africa.
IATA's work with Russia and the Commonwealth of Independent States had also helped to turn the worst safety record of last year into a clean slate so far.
Europe and North America also reported improvements, while North Asia suffered one total aircraft loss but still had an accident rate below the global average. The international airline group blamed three areas for the increase: the Asia-Pacific, Brazil and Africa.
Mr Bisignani said tragic accidents pushed up the Latin American total aircraft loss rate to 2.52, while the Indonesian crashes increased the Asia-Pacific rate to 3.27. In Africa, a more dispersed and unrelated set of accidents increased the rate from an already bad rate of 4.31 to 6.04.
"We are a global industry and flying must be safe everywhere," Mr Bisginani said. IATA had established partnerships with Indonesia and Brazil to improve the situation with practical measures and was working in Africa.
The IATA prediction comes after the European Union recently voted to maintain its ban on Indonesian airlines because Australia's northern neighbour had failed to make enough progress in improving its troubled aviation system.
All Indonesian carriers, including flag carrier Garuda, were banned earlier this year from landing at EU airports.
The director of aviation safety and environment for the EU, Roberto Salvarani, said during a recent visit to Australia Indonesia had made some progress but this was marginal compared with the restructuring needed.
Perhaps "OSTRICH" airlines would be a better name for HKA. I guess that would actually be an injustice to the ostrich as he only has his head in the sand, not up his fvck1ng arzeh0le as is the custom with you lot.
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