The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: asia
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alex, you forgot to mention :
When the speed drops below clean speed, with the trend arrow 2 inches long and heading South, you must LOWER the nose.
When approaching the ground, you must RAISE the nose.
There, now that covers it
When the speed drops below clean speed, with the trend arrow 2 inches long and heading South, you must LOWER the nose.
When approaching the ground, you must RAISE the nose.
There, now that covers it
Course Hints
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: No Fixed Abode
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So from where are HKA finding their drivers?
THIS IS INTERESTING: 
For U.S., Europe and Asia, great distances between airline safety regulations
By Nicola Clark and Heather Timmons International Herald Tribune
Thursday, April 24, 2008
Despite the intense criticism that was heaped on the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration in Washington this month, regulators elsewhere say they still view the United States as the global standard bearer when it comes to rules for air safety and regulatory compliance. And while some regions have introduced additional layers of oversight in recent years, regulators note that U.S. air accident rates are the lowest in the world.
Safety records in Latin America and Africa are far and away the world's worst, with accident rates as high as six times the global average. In the Asia-Pacific region, where passenger traffic is growing fastest, regulation remains a patchwork ranging from shoddy to exemplary, depending on the country. Even in the European Union, where national regulators are held to account at the EU level, the number of accidents was still three times higher last year than in the United States.
So as the U.S. regulator's safety crackdown on American carriers led to thousands of flights being canceled, some observers overseas were puzzled by the uproar.
"It looks from here like an over-reaction," said Wolfgang Didszuhn, a retired Airbus vice president for airworthiness who is now a consultant to the air safety authority of the United Arab Emirates. "I don't think the FAA's image has suffered from this, but I do think everybody feels a bit sorry for them."
For European regulators, the recent U.S. crackdown brought to mind the crash, two years ago, of Helios Airways Flight 522. In that case, a Boeing 737-300 flying from Larnaca, Cyprus, to Prague, flew on autopilot for two hours, its pilots slumped unconscious over the controls, before plowing into a Greek hillside when it ran out of fuel. All 121 people aboard were killed.
A Greek government inquiry into that accident ultimately blamed maintenance technicians who had left the plane's pressurization system switched to manual rather than automatic - which led to a rapid loss of oxygen in the cabin. But the Cypriot aviation authority, which had had a reputation for cronyism before joining the European Union in 2004, was also criticized for "inadequate execution of its safety oversight responsibilities."
The airline, renamed Ajet Aviation, collapsed in 2006 amid a threat from the European Commission to ban it from the Continent's skies.
While the Helios tragedy could be viewed as an example of failed oversight, some airline industry regulators pointed to the subsequent crackdown by the EU as demonstrating the additional pressure that the European system can apply to fix any weak links.
"You could argue that national oversight at the time of the Helios crash was not rigorous enough," said Daniel Hoeltgen, a spokesman for the European Aviation Safety Agency, or EASA.
"But the initiative to assume power at the European level, and the political message that the commission was intent on banning the airline, worked. It showed that we had teeth."
There is no pan-Asian oversight board that inspects airlines, and old-fashioned, bureaucratic country regulators have often been slow to keep up with breakneck growth. Meanwhile, start-up budget airlines, often fueled with private equity, hedge fund and local stock market cash, are embarking on ambitious expansion plans that give regulation and inspection little thought.
A boom in passenger numbers - up 7.3 percent over all in Asia in the past year - has not been matched by a rise in skilled maintenance personnel, a rise in qualified inspectors, or an increase in regulatory stringency. As the Indian Aviation Ministry said in the 2007 year-end review of its own operations, "there is a mismatch in growing workload and the existing strength, resources and infrastructure."
Employees of state-owned airlines are paid poorly in many Asian countries, and government employees who serve as regulators are often paid less. "The problem is attracting the right people in the right place," said Torbjorn Karlsson, managing partner with the aerospace, military and aviation practice of Heidrick & Struggles in Singapore. "Governments need to give better incentives to these people," he said. Karlsson estimates that an engineer who jumps from a government regulator in some countries in Asia to an international aviation parts supplier like General Electric or Rolls-Royce can increase his salary tenfold.
In February, Giovanni Bisignani, the secretary general of the International Air Transport Association, called Asian security an "uncoordinated mess" and urged airlines to be more proactive. "Asia should be thinking of a regional security area with harmonized rules and tools using the best modern technology," he said at an aviation show in Singapore.
Bisignani this month also urged governments in Africa and Latin America to do more to improve their air safety records. Africa - where more than 40 people died last week in the crash of a DC-9 on takeoff from Goma, Congo - is the most unsafe region in the world for air travel, with one accident for every 244,000 flights, according to the air transport group. That is six times the global average of one accident for every 1.3 million flights.
In Latin America, where air accidents number one for every 600,000 flights, Bisignani bemoaned the lack of a common regulatory framework and noted that the International Civil Aviation Organization, an arm of the United Nations, had recently discovered 250 instances where Latin American regulators had fallen short of minimum international standards. "This is a dangerous embarrassment for the region," Bisignani said.
All countries sign up to the UN agency's guidelines, "but the truth is that not all countries live up to those standards and that is causing some concern," said Andrew Herdman, the director general of the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines, a 17-member industry trade group that includes some of the largest airlines in Asia.
EASA, created in 2003 and based in Cologne, has a mission focused on setting standards for air safety across the EU, which comprises 27 countries. It performs many of the policy-setting functions of the FAA in the United States, though it relies on national regulators of the EU member states to ensure its guidelines are followed and that the hundreds of maintenance directives and inspections that EASA orders each year are carried out by airlines.
EASA issued roughly 450 separate airworthiness directives to national regulators in 2007, of which 76 were in response to specific incidents, like the series of crash landings last year by Q400 commuter planes operated by Scandinavian Airlines.
"It's a system more or less based on the principle of mutual trust," Hoeltgen said, though since 2006 EASA has been conducting confidential audits of the national air regulators' compliance records at least once a year. The inspections, which last four to five days, normally also involve spot visits to a handful of airlines.
Hoeltgen said there had been a number of cases in recent years where either a national regulator or an airline had been out of compliance with EASA directives, though he declined to cite specific examples.
"In these cases, it has been up to the member state authority to design corrective action," he said. "They also have to convince us that this has been done properly."
National regulators say the second layer of oversight, rather than hindering their work, gives their inspectors added authority with airlines.
"It's EASA that issues the directives, and ultimately they have the final word," said Jonathan Nicholson, a spokesman for the Civil Aviation Authority in Britain. "Our job is to ask the airlines how they intend to meet EASA's requirements and then we verify that safety checks and maintenance have been done by auditing airline logbooks and making gate checks."
The possibility that carriers and regulators could face separate scrutiny from EASA's inspectors, he added, provided further incentive to comply or risk EU sanctions.
The turmoil in the United States was seen as a reaction to a long-term shift in the way the FAA oversaw U.S. airlines, from strict policing to a more collaborative approach that critics said went too far. Whistle-blowers at the FAA disclosed that they had been discouraged from cracking down on Southwest Airlines, and they found a sympathetic audience with Washington lawmakers.
That prodded the FAA to order an audit to check whether U.S. airlines were in compliance, a record penalty of $10.2 million against Southwest - and the grounding of thousands of flights, primarily from American Airlines.
Unlike the FAA, EASA does not have the authority to fine airlines or national regulators for noncompliance. Instead, the agency can notify the European Commission in Brussels, which has the power to take member states to court. A court ruling against a member state would result in all of its carriers losing their right to fly within the EU.
"This acts as pretty effective deterrent to lapses in oversight," Hoeltgen said.
Just one year ago, for example, Bulgaria - which joined the EU in January 2007 - stripped five freight airlines of their operating licenses in a bid to pre-empt a blanket EU ban on its carriers.
After a series of accidents and mishaps, the European Commission in July banned all 51 airlines from Indonesia, which has an especially poor safety record. Indonesia's fleet joined a blacklist of more than 90 airlines that included carriers from Liberia, Iran and the Democratic Republic of Congo. The United States has warned citizens against flying on Indonesian airlines, but the country has no direct flights to the United States.
Yet Indonesian carriers still fly freely into Asian and Middle East destinations, including Singapore, Hong Kong and Saudi Arabia. Garuda Indonesia, the country's flag carrier, has code-share agreements with Malaysia Airlines connecting Jakarta with Frankfurt, London and Manchester via Kuala Lumpur.
While the FAA's struggles have been followed closely, many regulators, airline executives and trade groups in Europe and Asia still view the U.S. regulator as a role model.
"You shouldn't need to have a regulator looking at every aircraft as it takes off or checking every turn of a screw by a maintenance person," said Nicholson of the British agency. "The regulator is the fallback. Ultimately, it is the airline's job to do what it has to do. When there are lapses, responsibility can only ever come back to the airline."
In Indonesia, regulators - in consultation with the FAA and other international safety bodies - seem to be aiming now for more stringency. Last month the country banned Adam Air, a low-cost carrier, from flying because of poor training of pilots and ground crews, and said it was passing new legislation related to airline safety.
Adam Air, which is run by a 27-year-old, Adam Suherman, and his brothers, has suffered several accidents, including a crash in January 2007 that killed all 102 passengers on board.
Of course, not all Asian airlines are in the same category. Carriers and regulators in Singapore and Australia have strong safety records and are often considered the region's best.
Singapore Airlines had an unbroken 28-year record of accident-free flying until a Singapore Airlines flight crashed during takeoff in Taiwan in 2000, killing 83.
Singapore's aviation authority audits local air operators twice a year, in addition to spot safety checks, and rotates inspectors so they cannot form cozy relationships with airlines they audit. Singapore Airlines says it follows manufacturers' maintenance instructions to the letter.
Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority has tightened up its auditing process in recent years, according to Peter Gibson, a spokesman. As well as keeping a database that it hopes will spot slippage in maintenance and safety standards, it has created a system of independent auditors.
Nicola Clark reported from Paris and Heather Timmons from New Delhi. Tim Johnston contributed reporting from Sydney.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/23/business/safety.php
For U.S., Europe and Asia, great distances between airline safety regulations
By Nicola Clark and Heather Timmons International Herald Tribune
Thursday, April 24, 2008
Despite the intense criticism that was heaped on the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration in Washington this month, regulators elsewhere say they still view the United States as the global standard bearer when it comes to rules for air safety and regulatory compliance. And while some regions have introduced additional layers of oversight in recent years, regulators note that U.S. air accident rates are the lowest in the world.
Safety records in Latin America and Africa are far and away the world's worst, with accident rates as high as six times the global average. In the Asia-Pacific region, where passenger traffic is growing fastest, regulation remains a patchwork ranging from shoddy to exemplary, depending on the country. Even in the European Union, where national regulators are held to account at the EU level, the number of accidents was still three times higher last year than in the United States.
So as the U.S. regulator's safety crackdown on American carriers led to thousands of flights being canceled, some observers overseas were puzzled by the uproar.
"It looks from here like an over-reaction," said Wolfgang Didszuhn, a retired Airbus vice president for airworthiness who is now a consultant to the air safety authority of the United Arab Emirates. "I don't think the FAA's image has suffered from this, but I do think everybody feels a bit sorry for them."
For European regulators, the recent U.S. crackdown brought to mind the crash, two years ago, of Helios Airways Flight 522. In that case, a Boeing 737-300 flying from Larnaca, Cyprus, to Prague, flew on autopilot for two hours, its pilots slumped unconscious over the controls, before plowing into a Greek hillside when it ran out of fuel. All 121 people aboard were killed.
A Greek government inquiry into that accident ultimately blamed maintenance technicians who had left the plane's pressurization system switched to manual rather than automatic - which led to a rapid loss of oxygen in the cabin. But the Cypriot aviation authority, which had had a reputation for cronyism before joining the European Union in 2004, was also criticized for "inadequate execution of its safety oversight responsibilities."
The airline, renamed Ajet Aviation, collapsed in 2006 amid a threat from the European Commission to ban it from the Continent's skies.
While the Helios tragedy could be viewed as an example of failed oversight, some airline industry regulators pointed to the subsequent crackdown by the EU as demonstrating the additional pressure that the European system can apply to fix any weak links.
"You could argue that national oversight at the time of the Helios crash was not rigorous enough," said Daniel Hoeltgen, a spokesman for the European Aviation Safety Agency, or EASA.
"But the initiative to assume power at the European level, and the political message that the commission was intent on banning the airline, worked. It showed that we had teeth."
There is no pan-Asian oversight board that inspects airlines, and old-fashioned, bureaucratic country regulators have often been slow to keep up with breakneck growth. Meanwhile, start-up budget airlines, often fueled with private equity, hedge fund and local stock market cash, are embarking on ambitious expansion plans that give regulation and inspection little thought.
A boom in passenger numbers - up 7.3 percent over all in Asia in the past year - has not been matched by a rise in skilled maintenance personnel, a rise in qualified inspectors, or an increase in regulatory stringency. As the Indian Aviation Ministry said in the 2007 year-end review of its own operations, "there is a mismatch in growing workload and the existing strength, resources and infrastructure."
Employees of state-owned airlines are paid poorly in many Asian countries, and government employees who serve as regulators are often paid less. "The problem is attracting the right people in the right place," said Torbjorn Karlsson, managing partner with the aerospace, military and aviation practice of Heidrick & Struggles in Singapore. "Governments need to give better incentives to these people," he said. Karlsson estimates that an engineer who jumps from a government regulator in some countries in Asia to an international aviation parts supplier like General Electric or Rolls-Royce can increase his salary tenfold.
In February, Giovanni Bisignani, the secretary general of the International Air Transport Association, called Asian security an "uncoordinated mess" and urged airlines to be more proactive. "Asia should be thinking of a regional security area with harmonized rules and tools using the best modern technology," he said at an aviation show in Singapore.
Bisignani this month also urged governments in Africa and Latin America to do more to improve their air safety records. Africa - where more than 40 people died last week in the crash of a DC-9 on takeoff from Goma, Congo - is the most unsafe region in the world for air travel, with one accident for every 244,000 flights, according to the air transport group. That is six times the global average of one accident for every 1.3 million flights.
In Latin America, where air accidents number one for every 600,000 flights, Bisignani bemoaned the lack of a common regulatory framework and noted that the International Civil Aviation Organization, an arm of the United Nations, had recently discovered 250 instances where Latin American regulators had fallen short of minimum international standards. "This is a dangerous embarrassment for the region," Bisignani said.
All countries sign up to the UN agency's guidelines, "but the truth is that not all countries live up to those standards and that is causing some concern," said Andrew Herdman, the director general of the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines, a 17-member industry trade group that includes some of the largest airlines in Asia.
EASA, created in 2003 and based in Cologne, has a mission focused on setting standards for air safety across the EU, which comprises 27 countries. It performs many of the policy-setting functions of the FAA in the United States, though it relies on national regulators of the EU member states to ensure its guidelines are followed and that the hundreds of maintenance directives and inspections that EASA orders each year are carried out by airlines.
EASA issued roughly 450 separate airworthiness directives to national regulators in 2007, of which 76 were in response to specific incidents, like the series of crash landings last year by Q400 commuter planes operated by Scandinavian Airlines.
"It's a system more or less based on the principle of mutual trust," Hoeltgen said, though since 2006 EASA has been conducting confidential audits of the national air regulators' compliance records at least once a year. The inspections, which last four to five days, normally also involve spot visits to a handful of airlines.
Hoeltgen said there had been a number of cases in recent years where either a national regulator or an airline had been out of compliance with EASA directives, though he declined to cite specific examples.
"In these cases, it has been up to the member state authority to design corrective action," he said. "They also have to convince us that this has been done properly."
National regulators say the second layer of oversight, rather than hindering their work, gives their inspectors added authority with airlines.
"It's EASA that issues the directives, and ultimately they have the final word," said Jonathan Nicholson, a spokesman for the Civil Aviation Authority in Britain. "Our job is to ask the airlines how they intend to meet EASA's requirements and then we verify that safety checks and maintenance have been done by auditing airline logbooks and making gate checks."
The possibility that carriers and regulators could face separate scrutiny from EASA's inspectors, he added, provided further incentive to comply or risk EU sanctions.
The turmoil in the United States was seen as a reaction to a long-term shift in the way the FAA oversaw U.S. airlines, from strict policing to a more collaborative approach that critics said went too far. Whistle-blowers at the FAA disclosed that they had been discouraged from cracking down on Southwest Airlines, and they found a sympathetic audience with Washington lawmakers.
That prodded the FAA to order an audit to check whether U.S. airlines were in compliance, a record penalty of $10.2 million against Southwest - and the grounding of thousands of flights, primarily from American Airlines.
Unlike the FAA, EASA does not have the authority to fine airlines or national regulators for noncompliance. Instead, the agency can notify the European Commission in Brussels, which has the power to take member states to court. A court ruling against a member state would result in all of its carriers losing their right to fly within the EU.
"This acts as pretty effective deterrent to lapses in oversight," Hoeltgen said.
Just one year ago, for example, Bulgaria - which joined the EU in January 2007 - stripped five freight airlines of their operating licenses in a bid to pre-empt a blanket EU ban on its carriers.
After a series of accidents and mishaps, the European Commission in July banned all 51 airlines from Indonesia, which has an especially poor safety record. Indonesia's fleet joined a blacklist of more than 90 airlines that included carriers from Liberia, Iran and the Democratic Republic of Congo. The United States has warned citizens against flying on Indonesian airlines, but the country has no direct flights to the United States.
Yet Indonesian carriers still fly freely into Asian and Middle East destinations, including Singapore, Hong Kong and Saudi Arabia. Garuda Indonesia, the country's flag carrier, has code-share agreements with Malaysia Airlines connecting Jakarta with Frankfurt, London and Manchester via Kuala Lumpur.
While the FAA's struggles have been followed closely, many regulators, airline executives and trade groups in Europe and Asia still view the U.S. regulator as a role model.
"You shouldn't need to have a regulator looking at every aircraft as it takes off or checking every turn of a screw by a maintenance person," said Nicholson of the British agency. "The regulator is the fallback. Ultimately, it is the airline's job to do what it has to do. When there are lapses, responsibility can only ever come back to the airline."
In Indonesia, regulators - in consultation with the FAA and other international safety bodies - seem to be aiming now for more stringency. Last month the country banned Adam Air, a low-cost carrier, from flying because of poor training of pilots and ground crews, and said it was passing new legislation related to airline safety.
Adam Air, which is run by a 27-year-old, Adam Suherman, and his brothers, has suffered several accidents, including a crash in January 2007 that killed all 102 passengers on board.
Of course, not all Asian airlines are in the same category. Carriers and regulators in Singapore and Australia have strong safety records and are often considered the region's best.
Singapore Airlines had an unbroken 28-year record of accident-free flying until a Singapore Airlines flight crashed during takeoff in Taiwan in 2000, killing 83.
Singapore's aviation authority audits local air operators twice a year, in addition to spot safety checks, and rotates inspectors so they cannot form cozy relationships with airlines they audit. Singapore Airlines says it follows manufacturers' maintenance instructions to the letter.
Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority has tightened up its auditing process in recent years, according to Peter Gibson, a spokesman. As well as keeping a database that it hopes will spot slippage in maintenance and safety standards, it has created a system of independent auditors.
Nicola Clark reported from Paris and Heather Timmons from New Delhi. Tim Johnston contributed reporting from Sydney.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/23/business/safety.php
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mos Eisley
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regulatory Oversight
Very interesting to note that the Singapore authority rotates Flight Operations Inspectors to avoid "overly comfy relationships", sorry, how many operators in Singapore?
In HKA's case, their FOI can't work with any other operator on the airfield, due to "past performance issues". The management of HKA are quite proud of the fact that they can do whatever they want, as they openly say "we have the regulator in our back pocket". It makes a mockery of the concept of regulatory oversight. Time will tell.
In HKA's case, their FOI can't work with any other operator on the airfield, due to "past performance issues". The management of HKA are quite proud of the fact that they can do whatever they want, as they openly say "we have the regulator in our back pocket". It makes a mockery of the concept of regulatory oversight. Time will tell.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: hong kong
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How does HKE escape the vitriol?
Has there ever been so much ire on one web site in the history of PPRUNE aimed at both management AND the regulator? Clearly to an outside observer on the evidence portrayed the airline appears a managerial disaster and fit only for one's mother in law to travel on. However I thought the standard of regulatory over-sight was pretty good?
Is there really that much difference between HKE and HKA? Both obviously controlled by HNA and supposedly only the minor shareholding difference standing between the two organisations becoming one happy (AOC) family? Yet HKE seem to escape unscathed - they must be a much better outfit.
Certainly in their independent days HKE seemed better run than the old CR, from the ashes of which HKA arose more like a serpent than a phoenix. However both were commercial basket cases and seem to be still so. At the end of the day only commercial success will see jobs created. Oasis was apparently a very happy place to fail in!
It is interesting that this blog seems fixated on former Singaporean AHK Flt Ops Managers. They are third division when it comes to influence with HNA and dictating what happens to the airline although they obviously have a big impact on the pilots. However total silence on the senior management recently imported who are supposedly managing the two airlines. Are they the saviours they portray themselves as? (Incidentally, I know of no Flt Ops management that could sack 14 pilots without endorsement from the board - even CX DFO and the 49ers!)
A few months down the line and a few more receiverships could make this hiring bonanza disappear might quickly. The "Demise" in the title of this thread seems more illusionary than real!
Is there really that much difference between HKE and HKA? Both obviously controlled by HNA and supposedly only the minor shareholding difference standing between the two organisations becoming one happy (AOC) family? Yet HKE seem to escape unscathed - they must be a much better outfit.
Certainly in their independent days HKE seemed better run than the old CR, from the ashes of which HKA arose more like a serpent than a phoenix. However both were commercial basket cases and seem to be still so. At the end of the day only commercial success will see jobs created. Oasis was apparently a very happy place to fail in!
It is interesting that this blog seems fixated on former Singaporean AHK Flt Ops Managers. They are third division when it comes to influence with HNA and dictating what happens to the airline although they obviously have a big impact on the pilots. However total silence on the senior management recently imported who are supposedly managing the two airlines. Are they the saviours they portray themselves as? (Incidentally, I know of no Flt Ops management that could sack 14 pilots without endorsement from the board - even CX DFO and the 49ers!)
A few months down the line and a few more receiverships could make this hiring bonanza disappear might quickly. The "Demise" in the title of this thread seems more illusionary than real!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: asia
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The "Demise" in the title of this thread seems more illusionary than real
Drivers I have spoken to at HKE not a whole lot more impressed than same at HKA, although at the moment the flight ops management at HKE is better ( they actually know what they are doing ), how long they will last is another matter.
As yet, HKE have not done something blatantly racist like sacking 14 western F/Os and then continuing to hire F/Os from Indo, Singapore, local etc.
Although at a time when they were supposedly short of F/Os, they did stand up and say they would not hire any of the 14, I'm guessing this little directive came from above.
Quote: Although at a time when they were supposedly short of F/Os, they did stand up and say they would not hire any of the 14.
They left that job to KA. KA's and the pilot's gain.
They left that job to KA. KA's and the pilot's gain.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mos Eisley
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HKE and HKA Flight Oprations Management
I have to agree that the Flight Operations Management in HKE is a whole lot better than HKA.
Rumours circulating to the effect that Hainan Airlines are directing that HKE Management reamain untouched, as it appears the cracks are showing in the performance of the boys from Lyin' City. In the Chinese way Hainan wants to ensure that they have a backup if things turn pear-shaped at HKA.
May also be significant that relations with the HKCAD may change somewhat with the demotion of the Bedwetter.
Rumours circulating to the effect that Hainan Airlines are directing that HKE Management reamain untouched, as it appears the cracks are showing in the performance of the boys from Lyin' City. In the Chinese way Hainan wants to ensure that they have a backup if things turn pear-shaped at HKA.
May also be significant that relations with the HKCAD may change somewhat with the demotion of the Bedwetter.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Far Away
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rumours circulating to the effect that Hainan Airlines are directing that HKE Management reamain untouched, as it appears the cracks are showing in the performance of the boys from Lyin' City. In the Chinese way Hainan wants to ensure that they have a backup if things turn pear-shaped at HKA.
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME....................
Happy Landings!!
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: hong kong
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not Here,
I suspect a little matter of the Olympic Torch Relay probably weighs more heavily on the mind of the world-wide Chinese community than any action by HKA mismanagement!
Sadly the hopes for things getting better probably rests in the hands of HNA admitting that they have made a mistake in their selection of the latest senior management and that could be a "face" issue. HNA will in any case be focused on the commercial issues not the personnel iniquities. HNA are very hard nosed
In the end it will be the dismissal of the clowns who hired your tormentors in the first place that will see the current Flt Ops management being removed.
Although the HKCAD part in the long running saga of clear operational weaknesses (ever since CR days) is less than praiseworthy to date they could still be a useful conduit for change. That requires your pilots to work with them, rather than making rather pathetic references to "Bedwetters". It would be futile to pin hopes on them unless there are clear safety issues that can be proven by reference to QAR data or demonstable non compliance issues. If there are such examples HNA and the CAD will run scared if they come out into the open. However, the path of a "whistle blower" is not an easy one, and justice only prevails in Hollywood productions so protect your six o'clock!
I would take a bet that in the end the reason the latest lot will be shown the door is because of (inevitable) commercial failure and incompetence, not any perceived sympathy for mismanging the pilot force.
Who knows, it could lead to the right result for the wrong reasons!
I suspect a little matter of the Olympic Torch Relay probably weighs more heavily on the mind of the world-wide Chinese community than any action by HKA mismanagement!
Sadly the hopes for things getting better probably rests in the hands of HNA admitting that they have made a mistake in their selection of the latest senior management and that could be a "face" issue. HNA will in any case be focused on the commercial issues not the personnel iniquities. HNA are very hard nosed
In the end it will be the dismissal of the clowns who hired your tormentors in the first place that will see the current Flt Ops management being removed.
Although the HKCAD part in the long running saga of clear operational weaknesses (ever since CR days) is less than praiseworthy to date they could still be a useful conduit for change. That requires your pilots to work with them, rather than making rather pathetic references to "Bedwetters". It would be futile to pin hopes on them unless there are clear safety issues that can be proven by reference to QAR data or demonstable non compliance issues. If there are such examples HNA and the CAD will run scared if they come out into the open. However, the path of a "whistle blower" is not an easy one, and justice only prevails in Hollywood productions so protect your six o'clock!
I would take a bet that in the end the reason the latest lot will be shown the door is because of (inevitable) commercial failure and incompetence, not any perceived sympathy for mismanging the pilot force.
Who knows, it could lead to the right result for the wrong reasons!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kursk
Age: 72
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HKA IOSA Audit
HKA went thorugh an IOSA Audit in November last year. I remember hearing that there were only ten findings. Have they ever got around to clearing their findings and getting IOSA accreditation?
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: hong kong
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alex,
HKA are still not on the register - check the IATA web site, tab IOSA.
10 findings sounds like a complete fairy tale - just reading this thread indicates they are not in that league .
HKA are still not on the register - check the IATA web site, tab IOSA.
10 findings sounds like a complete fairy tale - just reading this thread indicates they are not in that league .
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mos Eisley
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IOSA Audit
Actually, I believe that Alex is correct. Only a handful of findings.
Heard from a very good source!
I checked on the IOSA site, and HKA don't appear as stated by Hailer. Obviously they don't have the ability to clear those last findings.
Heard from a very good source!
I checked on the IOSA site, and HKA don't appear as stated by Hailer. Obviously they don't have the ability to clear those last findings.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: uranus
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Idiot Singa Snakes
I would have thought the incident at Stars would have knocked some sense into Wuzy......... obviously not. I think there has been so much of his airforce buddies sperm pumped up is arse it'll take a bullet to fix him.
When he says he was a wing man in the airforce, I think he's meaning "ring man". Maybe it's Snake pronunciation of the engrish language??
Give it 6months, and HKA will cease to exist, and these snakes can go back to the swamp pit they emerged from. Never before has HKA lost so much money per month since these idiots took charge. My guess is a large chunk of the loss is due to the training cost of these idiots failing checks.
I've flown with 2 of these self appointed trainers for HKA and I think that "land on the center line" is not part of their syllabus. In fact it almost seems that, "just get the thing on the ground" is more like it.
As for all you doubters out there that think its previous management fault that HKA is in the state its in now....... I tell you that the reason why there was no pay rise from them, is that this sh*t pay package was proposed long before Wuzy got out of bed with Eric the Bedwetter and it was thrown back at management because it IS insulting. Previous Flight Ops managers stood for what they beleived in, not like these spineless idiots that are there now.
Soon all that will be left in HKA is that brown noser puppy dog F/O and his
Singa Snakes. No one else likes these guys at all, and want to leave, including local staff working at citygate and LNAC house. Well done Singa idiots!!! You've shown the world how to F&*k an airline in less than 6 months. You shouldn't be as arrogant as you are, you are all a shame to your country!!!
As for that arse licking F/O, you all should be very aware of his links to websites!!!! That guy has absolutely no friends/girlfriends or social life except for his laptop. If you want to keep your files secure, stay away!!!
This guy will do anything to be the first upgraded F/O, as he keeps telling people he will be???? What an idiot.
For all F/O's left at HKA, keep an eye on these new Captains!!! Save yourselves.
When he says he was a wing man in the airforce, I think he's meaning "ring man". Maybe it's Snake pronunciation of the engrish language??
Give it 6months, and HKA will cease to exist, and these snakes can go back to the swamp pit they emerged from. Never before has HKA lost so much money per month since these idiots took charge. My guess is a large chunk of the loss is due to the training cost of these idiots failing checks.
I've flown with 2 of these self appointed trainers for HKA and I think that "land on the center line" is not part of their syllabus. In fact it almost seems that, "just get the thing on the ground" is more like it.
As for all you doubters out there that think its previous management fault that HKA is in the state its in now....... I tell you that the reason why there was no pay rise from them, is that this sh*t pay package was proposed long before Wuzy got out of bed with Eric the Bedwetter and it was thrown back at management because it IS insulting. Previous Flight Ops managers stood for what they beleived in, not like these spineless idiots that are there now.
Soon all that will be left in HKA is that brown noser puppy dog F/O and his
Singa Snakes. No one else likes these guys at all, and want to leave, including local staff working at citygate and LNAC house. Well done Singa idiots!!! You've shown the world how to F&*k an airline in less than 6 months. You shouldn't be as arrogant as you are, you are all a shame to your country!!!
As for that arse licking F/O, you all should be very aware of his links to websites!!!! That guy has absolutely no friends/girlfriends or social life except for his laptop. If you want to keep your files secure, stay away!!!
This guy will do anything to be the first upgraded F/O, as he keeps telling people he will be???? What an idiot.
For all F/O's left at HKA, keep an eye on these new Captains!!! Save yourselves.