How many are leaving CX ?
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: HK
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Im based and the truth of the matter is once you see life back in your home domicile you realise all the crap that goes with the job in Hk is not really worth it!
You only live one life, perhaps spending it eating the fish curry for the millionth time across the pacific and complaining about it, isnt what you had in mind for a 30 yr+ career.
Only you can change it!
Money aint everything , especially when they start cutting it!
You only live one life, perhaps spending it eating the fish curry for the millionth time across the pacific and complaining about it, isnt what you had in mind for a 30 yr+ career.
Only you can change it!
Money aint everything , especially when they start cutting it!
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Chinese Calculator
Im puzzled on how you guys figure the salary is better at EK. I have checked the site and converted to AUD and it seems CX is far better.(Currently)
Yes command is quicker in EK but i didnt factor in the salary for been an FO for at least 3yrs(at earliest). I can only assume you guys have done the calculation on 15yrs or so. Please enlighten me.
Having said that, I was very keen on the DEFO Oz Base but since thyey have introduced the pay cut in JAN 08, I have decided not to send my CV until conditions improve. Also another consideration is command possibly 13+yrs, although not confirmed but certainly food for thought.
Slightly off the topic, does anyone know if Korean offer upgrade and if so, how long can one expect to be in the right seat?
Yes command is quicker in EK but i didnt factor in the salary for been an FO for at least 3yrs(at earliest). I can only assume you guys have done the calculation on 15yrs or so. Please enlighten me.
Having said that, I was very keen on the DEFO Oz Base but since thyey have introduced the pay cut in JAN 08, I have decided not to send my CV until conditions improve. Also another consideration is command possibly 13+yrs, although not confirmed but certainly food for thought.
Slightly off the topic, does anyone know if Korean offer upgrade and if so, how long can one expect to be in the right seat?
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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Go right ahead,
you need to take 16% off CX due tax (if HKG based). You need to add in EK HDP which is worth much more than CX HDP. You need to take into account ERP which is 7.5% of salary at the moment. Its more the 'area under the curve' rather than comparing position for position. EG, a CN1 in CX earns more but by the time he gets that position the guy in EK is on his 10th increment which puts him ahead pre tax let alone post tax. Look for some posts I have put on this over the last couple of months. I can tell you that after 10 years you are over 30% better off in EK (after tax dollars). Command time in CX is likely to be 13-15 years unless they start seriously ordering a/c. Given current CX orders command will be closer to 15 years.
you need to take 16% off CX due tax (if HKG based). You need to add in EK HDP which is worth much more than CX HDP. You need to take into account ERP which is 7.5% of salary at the moment. Its more the 'area under the curve' rather than comparing position for position. EG, a CN1 in CX earns more but by the time he gets that position the guy in EK is on his 10th increment which puts him ahead pre tax let alone post tax. Look for some posts I have put on this over the last couple of months. I can tell you that after 10 years you are over 30% better off in EK (after tax dollars). Command time in CX is likely to be 13-15 years unless they start seriously ordering a/c. Given current CX orders command will be closer to 15 years.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Why are you laughing?
I can't believe that anyone would think less of a person who would choose to go to AirTran. I'm certain that he was fed up with the anti-american attitude, lack of respect, and poor training. Things may change here over the long haul, but most people want to keep their dignity when they go to work. I'm certain the culture at AirTran is what this person would prefer. Who care what airframe a person flies, there is more to life than the weight of your aircraft.
Good luck to all those that seek to take another direction. For many, the expectation they came with did not materialize. aka...bait and switch.
Good luck to all those that seek to take another direction. For many, the expectation they came with did not materialize. aka...bait and switch.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Not your Mate!
My Cos will stay the same, as I to plan to leave before I'm subject to another.
As to your arrogance about AirTran, or anyone else with whom you feel is beneath you, just another example of why we leave.
As to your arrogance about AirTran, or anyone else with whom you feel is beneath you, just another example of why we leave.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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More Leaving...?
It's unconscionable to suggest that junior officers here at Cathay consider staying when they are faced with;
It's a sad commentary, but it makes sense to leap earlier than later. The snowball that started rolling at Dragonair looks like picking up some more snow from Cathay on it's way down the hill.
- possible significant increased time to command as a result of an increased retirement age,
- a paltry pay increase after six tears of no pay rise, and
- continuing opportunities elsewhere where demand has had an actual effect on remuneration.
It's a sad commentary, but it makes sense to leap earlier than later. The snowball that started rolling at Dragonair looks like picking up some more snow from Cathay on it's way down the hill.
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I wonder how many junior officers arriving here at Cathay after January 2008 on new Conditions of Service, (read: lesser pay than the bloke that joined in December
Join Date: Sep 2006
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MinimaNoContact
MinimaNoContact, and anyone else that is interested...
The Company will be paying New Joiners from January 2008 onwards, a unified pay scale under CoS08 that works like this:
The Company contends that the 'historical' recruiting streams have been as an SO or as a direct-entry Freighter FO. But they want to hire direct-entry Passenger FOs that are currently paid a higher salary. Naturally they don't want to have to pay for something they could possibly get away with not paying for...
So the cunning plan they have come up with is that they have produced an amalgamation, of sorts, of the SO and Freighter FO salaries, and applied this salary scale to all direct-entry FOs joining after January 2008!!
All direct-entry FOs joining the Company in future will be obligated to fly both the Freighter and Passenger aircraft in Cathay's inventory - something that is not necessarily the case today. (At present, freighter pilots fly freighter aircraft and passenger pilots fly passenger aircraft. Passenger pilots can be asked to fly freighter patterns but not forced to).
The rationale here is that the Company asserts that new joining pilots would naturally like to fly Passenger aircraft, and tossing the Freighter into the mix would allow for a greater variety of flying for the lucky individual.
However, the New Joiner will be flying both Freighter and Passenger aircraft for less than what aircrew with an identical rank flying Passenger aircraft are paid today. A minor and irrelevant point, the Company would say...
New Joiners have joined the Company as direct-entry Passenger pilots in the past - there is a historical precedent for this, but it is one which the Company and the AOA appear to be ignoring.
I contend that if the Company want Passenger fleet aircrew, (under the system that they themselves set up many years ago when they split the Freighter from the Passenger fleet to save them money), then they should pay Passenger fleet pay. If the Company wish to once again amalgamate the Passenger and Freighter fleets, then they should do so at the highest common denominator, not the least.
Simple.
The Company obviously see differently, (they don't want to pay more than they absolutely have to for their labour), and for some unknown reason, the AOA leadership, completely neglecting to represent their future colleagues on this issue, have acquiesced to this arrangement.
As for specific comparisons between pay scales, perhaps Numero Crunchero could do what he does best...
The Company will be paying New Joiners from January 2008 onwards, a unified pay scale under CoS08 that works like this:
The Company contends that the 'historical' recruiting streams have been as an SO or as a direct-entry Freighter FO. But they want to hire direct-entry Passenger FOs that are currently paid a higher salary. Naturally they don't want to have to pay for something they could possibly get away with not paying for...
So the cunning plan they have come up with is that they have produced an amalgamation, of sorts, of the SO and Freighter FO salaries, and applied this salary scale to all direct-entry FOs joining after January 2008!!
All direct-entry FOs joining the Company in future will be obligated to fly both the Freighter and Passenger aircraft in Cathay's inventory - something that is not necessarily the case today. (At present, freighter pilots fly freighter aircraft and passenger pilots fly passenger aircraft. Passenger pilots can be asked to fly freighter patterns but not forced to).
The rationale here is that the Company asserts that new joining pilots would naturally like to fly Passenger aircraft, and tossing the Freighter into the mix would allow for a greater variety of flying for the lucky individual.
However, the New Joiner will be flying both Freighter and Passenger aircraft for less than what aircrew with an identical rank flying Passenger aircraft are paid today. A minor and irrelevant point, the Company would say...
New Joiners have joined the Company as direct-entry Passenger pilots in the past - there is a historical precedent for this, but it is one which the Company and the AOA appear to be ignoring.
I contend that if the Company want Passenger fleet aircrew, (under the system that they themselves set up many years ago when they split the Freighter from the Passenger fleet to save them money), then they should pay Passenger fleet pay. If the Company wish to once again amalgamate the Passenger and Freighter fleets, then they should do so at the highest common denominator, not the least.
Simple.
The Company obviously see differently, (they don't want to pay more than they absolutely have to for their labour), and for some unknown reason, the AOA leadership, completely neglecting to represent their future colleagues on this issue, have acquiesced to this arrangement.
As for specific comparisons between pay scales, perhaps Numero Crunchero could do what he does best...
Last edited by BScaler; 12th Dec 2007 at 06:24. Reason: clarity
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Rate for the Job
COS 08 Offers a London based DEFO less money than I recieved to do that job as a B scale DEFO on joining on the base in the mid 90ies. My starting pay represented a considerable pay rise over my military salary, and I was happy to take the job. COS 08 would today be a significant pay cut. Looking around I dont see life getting cheaper. A point to bear in mind for any new applicants.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Onced off
Congrats to the DPA. May I say we should watch and learn. Excellent, everyone in KA now has a better package than CX. The mouse that roared vs the lion that wimpered. Maybe the GC should talk some more.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Pprune Banners...
I don't know how many of you have noticed the Pprune banners that advertise on this site - it is a little ironic that they state 'Vietnam Airlines Payrise' and 'Korean Air Payrise' in order to attract aircrew, and here we are at Cathay contemplating an imposed payrise that doesn't even compensate for the last year's CPI increase, let alone the previous 6 years!
And to rub salt in the wound, we 'got' it for acquiescing to the hiring of direct-entry Passenger FOs on lesser CoS, and allowing the Company unfettered retirement age increase to 65 years.
I'm sure it sounds like a really fair deal to the Company...
No wonder junior guys are looking a little closer at those banners!
And to rub salt in the wound, we 'got' it for acquiescing to the hiring of direct-entry Passenger FOs on lesser CoS, and allowing the Company unfettered retirement age increase to 65 years.
I'm sure it sounds like a really fair deal to the Company...
No wonder junior guys are looking a little closer at those banners!
Last edited by BScaler; 12th Dec 2007 at 11:52. Reason: expanding on a theme