Joining Dragonair? This is how it is now
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Age: 44
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Yes, Lowkoon actually seems tp give quite a fair view of the situation. And also the fact is that there are MANY airline jobs in Europe that pay FAR less than Dragon. Usually these kinds of jobs also have all the negative sides described at Dragon, like poor management, unstable rosters, 800 block hours a year and so on.
I'm not planning on joining KA, but from what I hear, I would be left with twice the amount of money after tax if I did, even considering the cost of living.
Someone doubted the "standard" of the applicants considering joining KA. In light of the above mentioned facts I think that's a bit unfair...
Some of you apparantly have great jobs, where things are working as they should, or at least better than at KA, even if the pay isn't sky high. That is great. Would you mind telling me what airlines you are working at? I'll send in an application right away
I'm not planning on joining KA, but from what I hear, I would be left with twice the amount of money after tax if I did, even considering the cost of living.
Someone doubted the "standard" of the applicants considering joining KA. In light of the above mentioned facts I think that's a bit unfair...
Some of you apparantly have great jobs, where things are working as they should, or at least better than at KA, even if the pay isn't sky high. That is great. Would you mind telling me what airlines you are working at? I'll send in an application right away
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hong Kong
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Why all the bitchin'?
For those of you who haven't had the pleasure of living in HK and working for Dragonair, let me explain ...
If, like me, you have a family of young children, it doesn't matter how much you are paid, or how quick the commands are, or how good the blokes you fly with are - you still lie awake at night wondering just how much damage you are doing to the health of the people you care most about in the world. It's like a background noise, and after a few years it really starts to gnaw away at you - am I taking the filthy lucre at the expense of my children's futures??
It's that sort of background pressure that led me to send my family back to Oz, and the reason I am looking for a job elsewhere - and before the cynics try to wind me up, I've had a good run professionally at KA, but it doesn't (and nor should it) compensate for the dramatic cost to my lifestyle.
And it's not just pilots - check out today's SCMP: Edo De Waart, HK Symphony's leading conductor has relocated his family to the US out of concerns for his children's health. It really is an environmental disaster.
So, when you add on the most disgraceful management I've ever had to work with (4 airlines), zero control over my roster (that's a whole new thread!), and CX hanging over our heads, if I was looking for work as a pilot I'd be bypassing KA if I wanted any semblance of a lifestyle, especially if I had a family.
Sorry to spoil the party.
If, like me, you have a family of young children, it doesn't matter how much you are paid, or how quick the commands are, or how good the blokes you fly with are - you still lie awake at night wondering just how much damage you are doing to the health of the people you care most about in the world. It's like a background noise, and after a few years it really starts to gnaw away at you - am I taking the filthy lucre at the expense of my children's futures??
It's that sort of background pressure that led me to send my family back to Oz, and the reason I am looking for a job elsewhere - and before the cynics try to wind me up, I've had a good run professionally at KA, but it doesn't (and nor should it) compensate for the dramatic cost to my lifestyle.
And it's not just pilots - check out today's SCMP: Edo De Waart, HK Symphony's leading conductor has relocated his family to the US out of concerns for his children's health. It really is an environmental disaster.
So, when you add on the most disgraceful management I've ever had to work with (4 airlines), zero control over my roster (that's a whole new thread!), and CX hanging over our heads, if I was looking for work as a pilot I'd be bypassing KA if I wanted any semblance of a lifestyle, especially if I had a family.
Sorry to spoil the party.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
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I considered leaving easyJet last year for Dragonair, but decided not to. I've often wondered if I made a mistake but reading through this I see Dragaonair as the easyJet of the Hong Kong?!
As it turns out easyJet has turned out good (rostering + pay) thanks to a new people friendly CEO. So i'd say you Brits out in HK come home and drink some decent beer!
As it turns out easyJet has turned out good (rostering + pay) thanks to a new people friendly CEO. So i'd say you Brits out in HK come home and drink some decent beer!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: York International
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You made the right choice easy, now that we will be paying full NI and tax you are earning more than us at KA on the MAN base.
At the moment the hassle of changing jobs and losing seniority etc outweighs the benefits of leaving KA but the pendulum is slowly shifting.
We now can't chose our crew meals, they keep adding the straws one after another. Then all of a sudden the trickle of leavers will turn into a flood.
At the moment the hassle of changing jobs and losing seniority etc outweighs the benefits of leaving KA but the pendulum is slowly shifting.
We now can't chose our crew meals, they keep adding the straws one after another. Then all of a sudden the trickle of leavers will turn into a flood.
Any interview's inf. Dragon Air?
How about cost of living in Hong Kong? Allownces??? Like?Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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Before anyone blasts you for not doing a search, have a look at fragrant harbour wannabes. All the interview stuff is there. The boss says they need 90 guys this year, think you could walk in with 2 heads and get the gig at the moment. (Although if you did have 2 heads, these guys would try and roster you both seperately, and pay you one salary ).
).
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: UK
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new tax rules
Going back to the taxing issues...
Are there any news on the issue?
Has the management been approached regarding the new tax rules?
If so what's their attitude? I know that they say tax is your own problem, but they will have to compensate in some way to keep people happy. Or are they just going to ignore it and hope it goes away (FR style)? What are they like to deal with normally?
At the moment I'm just holding off to see what happens, but it'd be nice to have an inclination on where this is going to go...
Are there any news on the issue?
Has the management been approached regarding the new tax rules?
If so what's their attitude? I know that they say tax is your own problem, but they will have to compensate in some way to keep people happy. Or are they just going to ignore it and hope it goes away (FR style)? What are they like to deal with normally?
At the moment I'm just holding off to see what happens, but it'd be nice to have an inclination on where this is going to go...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hong Kong
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It just gets better ...
And just to keep all those clamouring to join KA up to date,
SCMP today, front page: HK$1m to buy a debenture at an international primary school for the questionable privilege of having your child educated in Hong Kong ...
And to quote from the editorial:
"Newly arrived expatriates with children are finding that the education system is struggling to cope with their needs, even when they have financial support from their employers. There is ample anecdotal evidence that people have gone cold on job offers in Hong Kong because they could not find places at suitable schools for their children."
It just gets better and better - no wage rise for 6+ years, and definitely no increase in housing and education allowances despite rampant inflation in these markets, plus the bonus of breathing airborne effluent.
Beam me up Scotty!
PS Spoke to an FO today who calculates that at current training rates it will be 8 years to upgrade for a new joiner.
SCMP today, front page: HK$1m to buy a debenture at an international primary school for the questionable privilege of having your child educated in Hong Kong ...
And to quote from the editorial:
"Newly arrived expatriates with children are finding that the education system is struggling to cope with their needs, even when they have financial support from their employers. There is ample anecdotal evidence that people have gone cold on job offers in Hong Kong because they could not find places at suitable schools for their children."
It just gets better and better - no wage rise for 6+ years, and definitely no increase in housing and education allowances despite rampant inflation in these markets, plus the bonus of breathing airborne effluent.
Beam me up Scotty!
PS Spoke to an FO today who calculates that at current training rates it will be 8 years to upgrade for a new joiner.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: York International
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Pay much less
Here's another one. If you employ expatriate staff then you must expect them to think in their own currency, they will still have mortgages at home and will wish to save in that currency, to use UK£ as an example.
Joining pay for an FO is 56,992HK$, 6 yrs ago at 10.7 this was £5,326. It would have looked very attractive at the time.
No pay rise since then.
Now at 15.5, this same sum is only £3,677.
Can you spot the difference? Not to mention the inflation that has occured in that time.
Joining pay for an FO is 56,992HK$, 6 yrs ago at 10.7 this was £5,326. It would have looked very attractive at the time.
No pay rise since then.
Now at 15.5, this same sum is only £3,677.
Can you spot the difference? Not to mention the inflation that has occured in that time.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: España
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It is really tough. As an expat new joiner F/O I only get approx 6400 GBP (at 15.5 to the pound) pcm after tax - oh sorry, I forgot Dragonair buys my house with some of that. Oh they also pay for some tickets for my family to U.K. with that also. On top of that they give me money to educate my kids in a private school, although it is not the million dollar one. Private medical? nah there was SARS - and maybe MRSA is coming, so of course they are obliged to pay for that.
This Columbian chick says I can walk the streets with her and not get mugged. Naw, I'd be safer in the Old Smoke - maybe my kids would be too? Or perhaps the Algarve?
Please give me a job Easyjet! Or Ryanair - maybe Jetstar, no crime in Sydney I hear.
When is my leave coming up? Stingy, it is nowhere near as much as Easy!
Good luck chaps, I think I will go out for a beer - under the stars.
This Columbian chick says I can walk the streets with her and not get mugged. Naw, I'd be safer in the Old Smoke - maybe my kids would be too? Or perhaps the Algarve?
Please give me a job Easyjet! Or Ryanair - maybe Jetstar, no crime in Sydney I hear.
When is my leave coming up? Stingy, it is nowhere near as much as Easy!
Good luck chaps, I think I will go out for a beer - under the stars.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: europe
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Impressive maths as I just about get that before tax and I'm not a new joiner. Guess your just doing your first tax return now, so can't really quote your after tax figures yet as you've yet to get your first tax bill with provisional tax included.
New joiner $HK 56992 pm, House purchase @ $HK 44000, = $HK 100992 @ today's rates is GBP 6546 BEFORE tax.
Schooling is 90% of ESF fees so not entirely paid for by KA
New joiner $HK 56992 pm, House purchase @ $HK 44000, = $HK 100992 @ today's rates is GBP 6546 BEFORE tax.
Schooling is 90% of ESF fees so not entirely paid for by KA
Last edited by sidesteppa; 12th Jun 2007 at 17:19.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: York International
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The rest aint yours
Sorry Grumble Joe but I was using basic salary only for a reason as that is the only valid comparison, the allowances are there cos no-one would could consider the place at all without them.
You need health care cos they aint got the NHS.
You need the school allowance cos your kids aint cantonese so wouldn't do too well in the local school.
You need the travel fund cos your wife aint hanging around in the heat and smog.
You need accomodation allowance cos its very expensive to rent. Yes you can use it to buy but those are the famous golden handcuffs. Property goes down as well as up in HKG you know.
As sidesteppa intimates you won't be smiling quite so much when you get your tax bill cos you aint gonna like it.
You need health care cos they aint got the NHS.
You need the school allowance cos your kids aint cantonese so wouldn't do too well in the local school.
You need the travel fund cos your wife aint hanging around in the heat and smog.
You need accomodation allowance cos its very expensive to rent. Yes you can use it to buy but those are the famous golden handcuffs. Property goes down as well as up in HKG you know.
As sidesteppa intimates you won't be smiling quite so much when you get your tax bill cos you aint gonna like it.