Joining Dragonair? This is how it is now
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: UK
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Glad this was finally sorted, tax is so... taxing : )
Thanks for that summary, it makes sense that that is the way it would work. I can't imagine that you have to pay tax twice. Has anyone taken this to a specialist or is this just rumours about double taxing?
I'm in the uk now, but if I was getting double taxed I'd just get a mail box in a different country, list that as my main residence n keep a "holiday" home in the UK. Seems to work for the FR contractors...
Another thing, if an F/O got a tax claim for $380k that should be a good thing, if it's true he must be making a sh*tload of money! (hope he's been saving some!)
I'm in the uk now, but if I was getting double taxed I'd just get a mail box in a different country, list that as my main residence n keep a "holiday" home in the UK. Seems to work for the FR contractors...
Another thing, if an F/O got a tax claim for $380k that should be a good thing, if it's true he must be making a sh*tload of money! (hope he's been saving some!)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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dragon,
wow, that is draconian!
As I said, not current with these UK changes but I can tell you that in oz it was similar in that you had to pay FULL oz tax and then claim back money paid to hkg IRD. I would be surprised if it doesn't end up exactly the same in this case. The UK would be flying(no pun intended) in the face of international double taxation convention if hkg tax was not reclaimable. I think the US system is also similar to what I am describing.
Time will tell....
wow, that is draconian!
As I said, not current with these UK changes but I can tell you that in oz it was similar in that you had to pay FULL oz tax and then claim back money paid to hkg IRD. I would be surprised if it doesn't end up exactly the same in this case. The UK would be flying(no pun intended) in the face of international double taxation convention if hkg tax was not reclaimable. I think the US system is also similar to what I am describing.
Time will tell....
PAYE is called PAYE in the UK too.
When I was a KA feighter F/O based in the UK and living in the UK, I paid HK tax. My UK tax bill (paid retrospectively then) had the HK tax paid in that year deducted. I didn't have to front up UK tax or pay double tax.
The difference from Oct is that the company will have to deduct PAYE and pay it direct to the UK Inland Revenue. Whether this will have the HK element deducted is the question being asked now.
When I was a KA feighter F/O based in the UK and living in the UK, I paid HK tax. My UK tax bill (paid retrospectively then) had the HK tax paid in that year deducted. I didn't have to front up UK tax or pay double tax.
The difference from Oct is that the company will have to deduct PAYE and pay it direct to the UK Inland Revenue. Whether this will have the HK element deducted is the question being asked now.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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Wake Up !!!!
It is pointless talking about what happened in the past.
It is pointless talking about want happens in Australia.
It is pointless talking in tax language.
THE POINT IS.
From 1st Oct 2007 : Those based in UK will have UK PAYE removed from their salary at source, in other words they will never see, touch or taste that money, it goes straight from Cathay or Dragonair to the pocket of the UK taxman.
Also :
The employee must pay Hong Kong Tax, roughly 17% of salary.
Those are the facts.
Some may be able to claim the Hong Kong tax back later, perhaps if they spend less than 60 days in 1 year and 120 in two years ,they can. In mucho years in Hong Kong I have never got it back. Also if you live in another tax system and pay tax there you may be able to claim some or all the HK tax back. Basically if you want to know go to a tax lawyer/advisor/accountant.
Those who live in the UK, will have to pay the paye. Those who live outside the UK MAY be able to get a no tax code, or at least claim it back if they meet non-resident status. The rules for non-residency are very strict and get stricter all the time.
Following is an example for a married FO living in uk starting on a salary of 45,900 as quoted.Figures from listen to the taxman.com.
Salary ......................45.900.
Tax Free Allowances.... 5,225.
PAYE........................ 9,774.
National Insurance...... 3,371.
Total Deductions........13,145. (all gone in tax)
Net Salary................ 32,755.
Then the HKG tax 17% /45,900 is 7803stg leaves you with a net salary of 24,592, or 2,079 a month. Until you can claim back you HKG tax if you live in the UK. Also there are severe penelties for not paying HK tax on the due dates.
Cash Flow problems or what.
It is pointless talking about want happens in Australia.
It is pointless talking in tax language.
THE POINT IS.
From 1st Oct 2007 : Those based in UK will have UK PAYE removed from their salary at source, in other words they will never see, touch or taste that money, it goes straight from Cathay or Dragonair to the pocket of the UK taxman.
Also :
The employee must pay Hong Kong Tax, roughly 17% of salary.
Those are the facts.
Some may be able to claim the Hong Kong tax back later, perhaps if they spend less than 60 days in 1 year and 120 in two years ,they can. In mucho years in Hong Kong I have never got it back. Also if you live in another tax system and pay tax there you may be able to claim some or all the HK tax back. Basically if you want to know go to a tax lawyer/advisor/accountant.
Those who live in the UK, will have to pay the paye. Those who live outside the UK MAY be able to get a no tax code, or at least claim it back if they meet non-resident status. The rules for non-residency are very strict and get stricter all the time.
Following is an example for a married FO living in uk starting on a salary of 45,900 as quoted.Figures from listen to the taxman.com.
Salary ......................45.900.
Tax Free Allowances.... 5,225.
PAYE........................ 9,774.
National Insurance...... 3,371.
Total Deductions........13,145. (all gone in tax)
Net Salary................ 32,755.
Then the HKG tax 17% /45,900 is 7803stg leaves you with a net salary of 24,592, or 2,079 a month. Until you can claim back you HKG tax if you live in the UK. Also there are severe penelties for not paying HK tax on the due dates.
Cash Flow problems or what.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Harbour
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even if?
Even if KA payed the best money in the world. Why would you come to KA? you will have no life... no life no wife!
Pollution
Crap Rosters
No compensation for risking your life on the roads in the "amazing" China
Medical cover - Rubbish
Pay - Rubbish
etc... all the stuff you have read before...
Go somewhere else... anywhere....
Pollution
Crap Rosters
No compensation for risking your life on the roads in the "amazing" China
Medical cover - Rubbish
Pay - Rubbish
etc... all the stuff you have read before...
Go somewhere else... anywhere....
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Feet on the rudder pedals
Age: 59
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Originally Posted by Dragon521
If UK resident you pay:
-2 years HKG tax, 1 year in advance 1 time only
-1 year UK tax, UK tax man will deduct part paid in HKG.
Non resident:
- 2 years HKG tax, 1 year in advance 1 time
- rest in country of residence, could be nothing depending on tax treaties.
WARNING: this is NOW, in October 07 all is/could be changing
-2 years HKG tax, 1 year in advance 1 time only
-1 year UK tax, UK tax man will deduct part paid in HKG.
Non resident:
- 2 years HKG tax, 1 year in advance 1 time
- rest in country of residence, could be nothing depending on tax treaties.
WARNING: this is NOW, in October 07 all is/could be changing
I'm scheduled for an interview with KA for the MAN freighter base, and if it works and if I elect to work for them I consider continueing to live in France and commuting to MAN.
And here in France, tax level is ugly also....
Dom
Join Date: Jul 2004
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"the grass is always greener" TIL YOU HAVE TO MOW IT!!!! Big mistake believing the "Bull" sold at my interview! Bottom line as an F/O with a family you Break even at best! Then add the rosters, management, 
life style, expense of HK and the toxic air and this is not a good job and just about anything is better than this!
life style, expense of HK and the toxic air and this is not a good job and just about anything is better than this!
Join Date: Jul 2004
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From todays Fairfax press in Australia originally from Financial Times Asia:
Expats steer clear of Hong Kong air
Marc Moncrief
March 12, 2007
Photo: AP
Something in the air: smog pervades Hong Kong Disneyland.
POLLUTION is chasing professionals out of Hong Kong and could undermine the financial centre's prospects, according to the editor of the Financial Times Asia edition.
FT Asia editor Victor Mallet said many of Hong Kong's financial heavyweights had begun to look elsewhere for better places to work and raise children.
"Some investment bankers, fund managers, hedge fund managers and others who are mobile are already beginning in some cases to move from Hong Kong — say, to Singapore — for the sake of their families," Mr Mallet said.
A study released in September by human resources firm Hudson showed air pollution was making it difficult for 35 per cent of businesses to attract talent to Hong Kong.
Forty-four per cent of executives said expatriate employees were leaving Hong Kong companies because of air pollution. The bulk of those who left — 34 per cent — relocated to Singapore, while 21 per cent came to Australia.
To attract talent, companies were offering higher wages or better housing allowances to expatriates.
Hong Kong is east Asia's premier financial services centre, but its air is among the dirtiest in the world — far dirtier than other well-known smog-afflicted cities such as Los Angeles or Tokyo.
Much of the money stoking China's expansion enters via Hong Kong, making the city's health key to the world's growth engine.
Last week Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao told the country's annual parliamentary gathering that China must become greener — even if that means reining in economic growth.
China's economy grew 10.7 per cent last year, but Mr Wen said the country should try to slow that rate to 8 per cent.
"We must make energy saving, decreased energy consumption, reduced emission of pollutants and intensive use of land the breakthrough point and main fulcrum for accelerating economic restructuring and changing the pattern of economic growth," Mr Wen said.
But despite the rhetoric, China's carbon emissions are expected to increase to nearly three times 2003 levels by 2030. FT Asia's Mr Mallet said Chinese internal politics would have to change for Mr Wen's words to bring action.
"You know the old saying about China; "The mountains are high and the emperor is far away.' " Mr Mallet said. "That applies to environmental policy and investment policy as much as anything else."
http://geobay.com/a3f259
Expats steer clear of Hong Kong air
Marc Moncrief
March 12, 2007
Photo: AP
Something in the air: smog pervades Hong Kong Disneyland.
POLLUTION is chasing professionals out of Hong Kong and could undermine the financial centre's prospects, according to the editor of the Financial Times Asia edition.
FT Asia editor Victor Mallet said many of Hong Kong's financial heavyweights had begun to look elsewhere for better places to work and raise children.
"Some investment bankers, fund managers, hedge fund managers and others who are mobile are already beginning in some cases to move from Hong Kong — say, to Singapore — for the sake of their families," Mr Mallet said.
A study released in September by human resources firm Hudson showed air pollution was making it difficult for 35 per cent of businesses to attract talent to Hong Kong.
Forty-four per cent of executives said expatriate employees were leaving Hong Kong companies because of air pollution. The bulk of those who left — 34 per cent — relocated to Singapore, while 21 per cent came to Australia.
To attract talent, companies were offering higher wages or better housing allowances to expatriates.
Hong Kong is east Asia's premier financial services centre, but its air is among the dirtiest in the world — far dirtier than other well-known smog-afflicted cities such as Los Angeles or Tokyo.
Much of the money stoking China's expansion enters via Hong Kong, making the city's health key to the world's growth engine.
Last week Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao told the country's annual parliamentary gathering that China must become greener — even if that means reining in economic growth.
China's economy grew 10.7 per cent last year, but Mr Wen said the country should try to slow that rate to 8 per cent.
"We must make energy saving, decreased energy consumption, reduced emission of pollutants and intensive use of land the breakthrough point and main fulcrum for accelerating economic restructuring and changing the pattern of economic growth," Mr Wen said.
But despite the rhetoric, China's carbon emissions are expected to increase to nearly three times 2003 levels by 2030. FT Asia's Mr Mallet said Chinese internal politics would have to change for Mr Wen's words to bring action.
"You know the old saying about China; "The mountains are high and the emperor is far away.' " Mr Mallet said. "That applies to environmental policy and investment policy as much as anything else."
http://geobay.com/a3f259
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: europe
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Dirty Lungs
Probationary PPRuNer
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: HK
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From terradaily.com....
Hong Kong Pollution Leaves Tourists Choking
Hong Kong at night.
by Staff Writers
Hong Kong (AFP) Mar 20, 2006
Green activists said Sunday that Hong Kong's multi-billion dollar tourism industry was at risk after a survey found half the visitors to the city had complained of the worsening air pollution.
Friends of the Earth Hong Kong said the poll of tour guides also found that one in ten tourists suffered pollution-linked health problems while visiting the semi-autonomous southern Chinese territory.
The poll of more than 150 tour guides and agents who accompanied overseas and mainland Chinese tourists in Hong Kong also found that 40 percent of visitors were aware of the city's pollution problems before arriving. "Hong Kong's lucrative tourism business, its international image and its citizens' health are at risk from the pollution in this city," said Edwin Lau, Friends of the Earth Hong Kong coordinator.
"Matters have got to a terrible state in a very quick time," Lau added, citing an study that found Hong Kong Airport recorded one day of smog-related poor visibility in every 3.5 days last year, up from one in eight in 2002.
Last week smog levels rose to such dangerously high levels that the government was forced to warn people with breathing or heart problems to stay indoors.
Visibility also plummeted, blocking out the city's famous high-rise views and reducing visibility in the busy harbour to less than a kilometer.
The government has said most of the pollution rolls in from mainland China's heavily industrialised Pearl River delta region, which has seen huge economic growth in the past decade.
However, Friends of the Earth Hong Kong and local campaigners Clear the Air say local power producers are also major culprits.
"The pollution is not 'coming down from China'," said Annelise Connell, chairperson of Clear The Air, in a statement. "The sulphur dioxide levels are really bad ... which shows that our own power plants are involved in regional pollution," she added.
Lau said Hong Kong's two major power plants, which use a high level of polluting coal, and the city's bus companies, which rely on vehicles with poor emissions controls, were the major sources of pollution. Tourism last year brought in a record 22 million visitors.
If you are thinking of moving here (especially with a family), then educate yourself. A good place to start: www.cleartheair.com.hk
Dirty Lungs
Probationary PPRuNer
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 3
From terradaily.com....
Hong Kong Pollution Leaves Tourists Choking
Hong Kong at night.
by Staff Writers
Hong Kong (AFP) Mar 20, 2006
Green activists said Sunday that Hong Kong's multi-billion dollar tourism industry was at risk after a survey found half the visitors to the city had complained of the worsening air pollution.
Friends of the Earth Hong Kong said the poll of tour guides also found that one in ten tourists suffered pollution-linked health problems while visiting the semi-autonomous southern Chinese territory.
The poll of more than 150 tour guides and agents who accompanied overseas and mainland Chinese tourists in Hong Kong also found that 40 percent of visitors were aware of the city's pollution problems before arriving. "Hong Kong's lucrative tourism business, its international image and its citizens' health are at risk from the pollution in this city," said Edwin Lau, Friends of the Earth Hong Kong coordinator.
"Matters have got to a terrible state in a very quick time," Lau added, citing an study that found Hong Kong Airport recorded one day of smog-related poor visibility in every 3.5 days last year, up from one in eight in 2002.
Last week smog levels rose to such dangerously high levels that the government was forced to warn people with breathing or heart problems to stay indoors.
Visibility also plummeted, blocking out the city's famous high-rise views and reducing visibility in the busy harbour to less than a kilometer.
The government has said most of the pollution rolls in from mainland China's heavily industrialised Pearl River delta region, which has seen huge economic growth in the past decade.
However, Friends of the Earth Hong Kong and local campaigners Clear the Air say local power producers are also major culprits.
"The pollution is not 'coming down from China'," said Annelise Connell, chairperson of Clear The Air, in a statement. "The sulphur dioxide levels are really bad ... which shows that our own power plants are involved in regional pollution," she added.
Lau said Hong Kong's two major power plants, which use a high level of polluting coal, and the city's bus companies, which rely on vehicles with poor emissions controls, were the major sources of pollution. Tourism last year brought in a record 22 million visitors.
If you are thinking of moving here (especially with a family), then educate yourself. A good place to start: www.cleartheair.com.hk
Join Date: Mar 2000
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No pay rise since 2001
None coming
Join now you will have 200 f/o's ahead of you for command in HKG
No A/C on order for HKG + young demograph of current captains = long long wait for command.
15.7 HKD to the pound
It will be interesting to see who joins from the latest batch of interviews in UK
None coming
Join now you will have 200 f/o's ahead of you for command in HKG
No A/C on order for HKG + young demograph of current captains = long long wait for command.
15.7 HKD to the pound
It will be interesting to see who joins from the latest batch of interviews in UK
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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Airamerica, appreciate you are chasing information, these guys are giving it to you. Mate, its a pretty long bow to call these people who are leaving or complaining about the air quality greenies! We are talking about Merryl Lynch pulling out of hong kong and china, and moving all their money and resources offshore, and advising strongly that their clients do the same. We are talking about stock brokers, commodity traders and investment bankers, the Gordon Geckos of the world deciding it is not a place they want to invest or live.
All the tree hugging rainbow warriors have long gone. We are talking about the "who cares, as long as there is a buck to be made" money mercenary crowd pulling out... Big difference.
Maybe watch the movie wall street, then if you think that these people have the environment as their number one priority, then brand them as greenies. And yes, i did note you brand yourself as one... Peace Brother!
All the tree hugging rainbow warriors have long gone. We are talking about the "who cares, as long as there is a buck to be made" money mercenary crowd pulling out... Big difference.
Maybe watch the movie wall street, then if you think that these people have the environment as their number one priority, then brand them as greenies. And yes, i did note you brand yourself as one... Peace Brother!
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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Airamerica, totally agree with you... Very few leaving, often refered to here as the golden handcuffs... The money is good compared to elsewhere, but not that much better, at 16 to 1, FOs earn less than 4000 pounds a month, lifestyle and rostering far worse than any of the low cost carriers with a rostering agreement. With no aircraft on order, and no one really leaving, what do you think that will do to time to command? Housing is better than cx so's and fo's, worse than cx captains. Schooling covers the absolute basic minimum you would want for your children, nothing more, public (government) school equivalent. You get that for free in UK, AUS or US anyway.
Hkg dollar is pegged to the US, and headed south against just about every other currency on earth. Housing scheme lets you live in something that makes council flats from the 60s seem spacious, but that is hkgs property market, not dragons fault. Yes, it seems generous that they would offer it, but your entire salary wouldn't cover a decent rent if they didnt offer it, so who would come here for that?
Many realise that the golden handcuffs are made from 24 carat fools gold. Good bunch of line pilots though. Dont make the mistake management does, just because they arent leaving, doesnt mean they arent looking around. Like anywhere though, some love it, some hate it, most are somewhere between the 2.
Hkg dollar is pegged to the US, and headed south against just about every other currency on earth. Housing scheme lets you live in something that makes council flats from the 60s seem spacious, but that is hkgs property market, not dragons fault. Yes, it seems generous that they would offer it, but your entire salary wouldn't cover a decent rent if they didnt offer it, so who would come here for that?
Many realise that the golden handcuffs are made from 24 carat fools gold. Good bunch of line pilots though. Dont make the mistake management does, just because they arent leaving, doesnt mean they arent looking around. Like anywhere though, some love it, some hate it, most are somewhere between the 2.