Joining Dragonair? This is how it is now
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2/3/4, yes please.......... 20%..... Bring it on!!!!
Trouble is with a pilot turnover of 1 (ONE) percent I recently heard (and let's face it, we're all GONNA leave but no one actually packs the stuff and runs..) there is not a great case to argue.....
Biggest BIGGEST concern I find is that SH1TE rostering.... It is PATHETIC..... Strange thing that the sickness is soooooo highhhhhhhhh....
Enjoy your day, my view today is HZ, just like the other 300 days of the year....
ta ta
PS. I do think that with the way the UK market is going, the freighter has a better position to get what we ALL should get.... Only trouble is that the UK tax man is coming after all now isn't it?? Whether UK resident or not??
Trouble is with a pilot turnover of 1 (ONE) percent I recently heard (and let's face it, we're all GONNA leave but no one actually packs the stuff and runs..) there is not a great case to argue.....
Biggest BIGGEST concern I find is that SH1TE rostering.... It is PATHETIC..... Strange thing that the sickness is soooooo highhhhhhhhh....
Enjoy your day, my view today is HZ, just like the other 300 days of the year....
ta ta
PS. I do think that with the way the UK market is going, the freighter has a better position to get what we ALL should get.... Only trouble is that the UK tax man is coming after all now isn't it?? Whether UK resident or not??
Join Date: May 2000
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Anyone from MAN care to publish an example roster?
I'm hoping for an interview (MAN F/O) but beginning to have a few concerns now......
Currently I'm a (poorly paid) UK regional so I would have thought the change to KA still worthwhile?
I'm hoping for an interview (MAN F/O) but beginning to have a few concerns now......
Currently I'm a (poorly paid) UK regional so I would have thought the change to KA still worthwhile?
Last edited by Norman Goering; 17th Apr 2007 at 21:15.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Stay at home and go to pub, makes you feel better!!
During the interview they will tell you how great KA is blablablabla.
ask about the UK Payee fiasco, or what they are going to do about it!
answer: not our problem, tax is your problem!
They will tell you more then their own employees, we have not heard anything!!
You want a MAN roster on here,
do not bother YOU WILL NOT FLY WHAT IS ON IT ANYWAY!!! due to crew sickness or disturbance <-rosterings favourite for a long time
my personal best 12 days away 1 operating sector and positioned from DXB to HKG and back to DXB for nothing, but hee, it shows I was on duty
this is not an isolated case, normal to be away for 10 days and do 4 sectors and the boss want more productivity
a few points:
-morale at lowest point ever on all fleets, money is not going to solve it anymore. the lifestyles we had are long gone!!!
-KA is basically imploding day by day and nobody in office seems to care or notice.
-you join now say 5-8 years for command, in that time CX takes over, KA below CX, you still in RHS another 8-10 in CX.
- lots of senior cadets ahead of you who are reaching the 5000 hours for command in the coming years
Many moons ago KA was a good place, but not anymore!!
1 positive thing:
The crews on the freighter are a great bunch of guys and now 1 girl to operate airplanes with, the nights out are usually nights to remember!!! if you can,that is
good luck in the interview!!! enjoy the drinks
start 4123
During the interview they will tell you how great KA is blablablabla.
ask about the UK Payee fiasco, or what they are going to do about it!
answer: not our problem, tax is your problem!
They will tell you more then their own employees, we have not heard anything!!
You want a MAN roster on here,
do not bother YOU WILL NOT FLY WHAT IS ON IT ANYWAY!!! due to crew sickness or disturbance <-rosterings favourite for a long time
my personal best 12 days away 1 operating sector and positioned from DXB to HKG and back to DXB for nothing, but hee, it shows I was on duty
this is not an isolated case, normal to be away for 10 days and do 4 sectors and the boss want more productivity
a few points:
-morale at lowest point ever on all fleets, money is not going to solve it anymore. the lifestyles we had are long gone!!!
-KA is basically imploding day by day and nobody in office seems to care or notice.
-you join now say 5-8 years for command, in that time CX takes over, KA below CX, you still in RHS another 8-10 in CX.
- lots of senior cadets ahead of you who are reaching the 5000 hours for command in the coming years
Many moons ago KA was a good place, but not anymore!!
1 positive thing:
The crews on the freighter are a great bunch of guys and now 1 girl to operate airplanes with, the nights out are usually nights to remember!!! if you can,that is
good luck in the interview!!! enjoy the drinks
start 4123
Last edited by start 4123; 11th Apr 2007 at 19:57.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Basically,
From Oct 2007 KA will make all their MAN based crew known to the UK taxman. even the non residents
which means everybody will have to pay UK tax on top of HK tax.
even if you can claim it back. first you have to pay it, which for some guys will get them into serious liqidity? problems.
like start4123 stated, we do not get a lot of info, we are talking to accountants our selves to see what we can do!!
521
From Oct 2007 KA will make all their MAN based crew known to the UK taxman. even the non residents
which means everybody will have to pay UK tax on top of HK tax.
even if you can claim it back. first you have to pay it, which for some guys will get them into serious liqidity? problems.
like start4123 stated, we do not get a lot of info, we are talking to accountants our selves to see what we can do!!
521
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Tax and more tax
Although the IFALPA ban has been lifted it is still not a good time to join Dragonair given the current tax fiasco. Not only will you have to pay UK and HK tax you will also have to pay HK tax in advance! You will take home about 40% of your pay until it is sorted out!
Many of us are waiting to see how management handle this before we decide to move on or not. Any slight semblence of good times has come to an end at Dragonair.
No pay rise for 6yrs and probably 5yrs plus to command for MAN base and even longer for HKG. Be wary of their interview promises.
Many of us are waiting to see how management handle this before we decide to move on or not. Any slight semblence of good times has come to an end at Dragonair.
No pay rise for 6yrs and probably 5yrs plus to command for MAN base and even longer for HKG. Be wary of their interview promises.
Join Date: May 2000
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Dragon521,
Can you just clarify this for me then please - even if I am a UK resident I will pay UK tax AND HK tax??? Or is it the other way round - i.e. the UK based guys pay UK tax, but the unfortunate HK based chaps pay both?
Can you just clarify this for me then please - even if I am a UK resident I will pay UK tax AND HK tax??? Or is it the other way round - i.e. the UK based guys pay UK tax, but the unfortunate HK based chaps pay both?
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If UK resident you pay:
-2 years HKG tax, 1 year in advance 1 time only
-1 year UK tax, UK tax man will deduct part paid in HKG.
Non resident:
- 2 years HKG tax, 1 year in advance 1 time
- rest in country of residence, could be nothing depending on tax treaties.
WARNING: this is NOW, in October 07 all is/could be changing
-2 years HKG tax, 1 year in advance 1 time only
-1 year UK tax, UK tax man will deduct part paid in HKG.
Non resident:
- 2 years HKG tax, 1 year in advance 1 time
- rest in country of residence, could be nothing depending on tax treaties.
WARNING: this is NOW, in October 07 all is/could be changing
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So, despite having never set foot in Hong Kong, I would still get to pay the HK govt 2 years tax, a year of which is upfront!!!!!
Last edited by Norman Goering; 17th Apr 2007 at 21:16.
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correct,
the reason being, you work for a HKG company. so you will pay tax in HKG.
strange thing is you will not get a HKG id card because you are MAN based, so no access to cheap tax loans in HKG.
521
the reason being, you work for a HKG company. so you will pay tax in HKG.
strange thing is you will not get a HKG id card because you are MAN based, so no access to cheap tax loans in HKG.
521
Join Date: Nov 2001
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To put it simply, it seems that commands are always 1 more year. Have been here for a while, with a command course getting close. BUT.... if you join KA now looking for a quick command, you will be bitterly disappointed, it will take at least 5 years for the Airbus.
The guys on this thread are just telling you how it is. The rosters are CRAP, and not worth the paper there written on. With the current exchange rate, we have all had a 30% pay cut in the last 3 years.
So forget about how good the pay is, especially if you have a morgage in your home country. With the cost of living in HK, the increase in rents, and the constant snipes and niggles at what was a great conditions of service, you will struggle as an F/O if you have a wife and family.
SO:
At Dragonair you will have NO lifestyle, NO prospects, and NO cash....
Sounds obvious to me. Teach this idiotic management (and i use the term management very loosely) a bloody lesson. Wait until we can improve the package and also get a rostering agreement, then join in droves... all welcome.
The guys on this thread are just telling you how it is. The rosters are CRAP, and not worth the paper there written on. With the current exchange rate, we have all had a 30% pay cut in the last 3 years.
So forget about how good the pay is, especially if you have a morgage in your home country. With the cost of living in HK, the increase in rents, and the constant snipes and niggles at what was a great conditions of service, you will struggle as an F/O if you have a wife and family.
SO:
At Dragonair you will have NO lifestyle, NO prospects, and NO cash....
Sounds obvious to me. Teach this idiotic management (and i use the term management very loosely) a bloody lesson. Wait until we can improve the package and also get a rostering agreement, then join in droves... all welcome.
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Re HK/UK TAX.
Just a clarifiction on the HK tax issue. In HK you pay 70% provisional tax for the upcoming tax year, based on your last years income. So depending on when you join, and when the tax dept get you on their books, you may not pay tax for 2 yrs or so. You will however then pay arrears on yr 1 and 2, plus 70% of yr 3. I know of 1 HK based FO that got a tax demand for $380,000 after 2.5 yrs.
A further point is that in order to fall inside the tax net you need to spend more than 60 days in any tax year in HK. Almost all KA crews meet the 60 day requirement. And with the cahnge in the operation where more regional flights are planned, those that escaped the net in the past will not escape in the future.
On other matters, I understand that an FO has recently resigned looking for greener pastures.
If anyone is doing an interview, or has done one recently, I certainly would like to get your impressions, as I am sure many others will.
Cheers (hic!)
Just a clarifiction on the HK tax issue. In HK you pay 70% provisional tax for the upcoming tax year, based on your last years income. So depending on when you join, and when the tax dept get you on their books, you may not pay tax for 2 yrs or so. You will however then pay arrears on yr 1 and 2, plus 70% of yr 3. I know of 1 HK based FO that got a tax demand for $380,000 after 2.5 yrs.
A further point is that in order to fall inside the tax net you need to spend more than 60 days in any tax year in HK. Almost all KA crews meet the 60 day requirement. And with the cahnge in the operation where more regional flights are planned, those that escaped the net in the past will not escape in the future.
On other matters, I understand that an FO has recently resigned looking for greener pastures.
If anyone is doing an interview, or has done one recently, I certainly would like to get your impressions, as I am sure many others will.
Cheers (hic!)
Join Date: May 2000
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By my estimations then as a newbie on the quoted £45,900, HK tax equates to a fair amount.
Somebody please reassure me my maths is as crap as I hope it is and that it's nowhere near as bad as this?
On another note, no pension was mentioned - is that the case?
*edited to account for poor maths!*
Somebody please reassure me my maths is as crap as I hope it is and that it's nowhere near as bad as this?
On another note, no pension was mentioned - is that the case?
*edited to account for poor maths!*
Last edited by Norman Goering; 17th Apr 2007 at 21:13.
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NG
this is the HKG tax website, fill in the numbers and you know your amount
http://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/ese/ind_stc.htm
btw did they quote you that starting salary figure??
this is the HKG tax website, fill in the numbers and you know your amount
http://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/ese/ind_stc.htm
btw did they quote you that starting salary figure??
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Thanks for that. Thankfully the allowances make a big difference and my liability would be significantly less.
My typo - I believe £45,900 was the quoted start salary (I've edited my post accordingly)
As I said in an earlier post, whilst I appreciate it may be cack compared to what you're used to at Dragonair, to some it may still sound worthwhile - it's all relative I suppose.
My typo - I believe £45,900 was the quoted start salary (I've edited my post accordingly)
As I said in an earlier post, whilst I appreciate it may be cack compared to what you're used to at Dragonair, to some it may still sound worthwhile - it's all relative I suppose.
Last edited by Norman Goering; 17th Apr 2007 at 21:14.
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£45,900 is the starting salary.
As for pension, there is none! We currently receive an annual gratuity (payable after 3 years) of 10% of salary. This is also taxed so will end up being 6%.
As for pension, there is none! We currently receive an annual gratuity (payable after 3 years) of 10% of salary. This is also taxed so will end up being 6%.
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norman et al,
sorry to butt in here as a CX big brother but I think it would be handy to know some tax stuff.
First thing...hkg 'provisional' tax. In oz, we call our tax PAYE...pay as you earn. I am sure the UK has the same thing but with a different name. So lets say you joined a company, in the UK, on April 1st and you were going to earn X pounds per year. If your tax owing for the entire Apr 1st to Mar 31st tax was Y, how much of Y would you have paid by Jan 1st....about 75%. Well despite scaremongering, that is exactly how it works it hkg. You end up paying tax on money you have already earnt. So for people that complain of huge tax bills after a year or two, its because they haven't being paying any tax at all for those 2 years.
In summary, you wont have to pay tax on any money you haven't already physcially got in your pocket already!
Second thing...you almost never get double taxed. I can only speak from antipodean experience but since our law(tax law) is completely based on UK law, I am almost certain it applies.
Lets keep it simple...hkg and UK tax people may think you are a dual resident. As such you have to pay tax in both countries. Almost all countries have an agreement that allows the main country to tax first then the secondary country. So, in australian english, if hkg decides you live there first, you pay your 16% tax. After that, mother england decides you should pay Z% of your gross salary to mr brown(is he still there?). BUT, you get to reduce that payment by what you have already paid to HKG. So you are no worse off than if you were ONLY a resident in UK. If, for argument sake, you were in HKG less than 60 days, you wouldnt have to pay hkg tax, but you would still have to pay Z% of your gross salary to UK IRD. So you pay the HKIRD 0, since less than 60days, then pay UK taxman Z% of gross salary less hkg paid tax!!!!!!
So at the end of the day you pay the tax of the highest country you are resident of.
To summarise.
In HKG, by the time you pay tax you will already have been paid the income...ie it is the same as a time lag PAYE
The total tax you pay over two countries will almost always be less than or equal to tax payable in the highest taxing country.
clear as mud?
sorry to butt in here as a CX big brother but I think it would be handy to know some tax stuff.
First thing...hkg 'provisional' tax. In oz, we call our tax PAYE...pay as you earn. I am sure the UK has the same thing but with a different name. So lets say you joined a company, in the UK, on April 1st and you were going to earn X pounds per year. If your tax owing for the entire Apr 1st to Mar 31st tax was Y, how much of Y would you have paid by Jan 1st....about 75%. Well despite scaremongering, that is exactly how it works it hkg. You end up paying tax on money you have already earnt. So for people that complain of huge tax bills after a year or two, its because they haven't being paying any tax at all for those 2 years.
In summary, you wont have to pay tax on any money you haven't already physcially got in your pocket already!
Second thing...you almost never get double taxed. I can only speak from antipodean experience but since our law(tax law) is completely based on UK law, I am almost certain it applies.
Lets keep it simple...hkg and UK tax people may think you are a dual resident. As such you have to pay tax in both countries. Almost all countries have an agreement that allows the main country to tax first then the secondary country. So, in australian english, if hkg decides you live there first, you pay your 16% tax. After that, mother england decides you should pay Z% of your gross salary to mr brown(is he still there?). BUT, you get to reduce that payment by what you have already paid to HKG. So you are no worse off than if you were ONLY a resident in UK. If, for argument sake, you were in HKG less than 60 days, you wouldnt have to pay hkg tax, but you would still have to pay Z% of your gross salary to UK IRD. So you pay the HKIRD 0, since less than 60days, then pay UK taxman Z% of gross salary less hkg paid tax!!!!!!
So at the end of the day you pay the tax of the highest country you are resident of.
To summarise.
In HKG, by the time you pay tax you will already have been paid the income...ie it is the same as a time lag PAYE
The total tax you pay over two countries will almost always be less than or equal to tax payable in the highest taxing country.
clear as mud?
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NC, seems like you have not followed the latest..... All sounds logic but that's just about to change thanks to the 49ers court case which woke up the UK IRD....
So, HKG tax, yes. UK tax, yes that as well..... Than after the year it's up to you to get it back....... (All if you are NON Uk resident or PART if you are..)
Not the rules, not normal etc but that is the way it is going per October 1st as it stands now....
Cheers
So, HKG tax, yes. UK tax, yes that as well..... Than after the year it's up to you to get it back....... (All if you are NON Uk resident or PART if you are..)
Not the rules, not normal etc but that is the way it is going per October 1st as it stands now....
Cheers