Cx vs. US
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Cx vs. US
I was just trying to figure out what Cathay has against soooo many American pilots. I'm not trying to start a big conflict, but just honestly trying to understand the mentality.
My opinion is that it may have something to do with the Open Skies Policy. Or it could go back alot further than that. I'm not trying to call any pilot group better than any other and I could be way off base, but just looking for some other opinions.
Set me straight, please.
My opinion is that it may have something to do with the Open Skies Policy. Or it could go back alot further than that. I'm not trying to call any pilot group better than any other and I could be way off base, but just looking for some other opinions.
Set me straight, please.
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I understood it has something to do with HK CAD not recognizing the US ATPL and requires all pilots to sit every single exam before they will issue a licence. That obviously makes it very difficult for a US guy to get a Job base in Hong Kong.
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I can understand that, but there is so much disdain for the American pilots during the interview process itself. I just don't get it. The interviews that are done in the US fall into two categories.....1. US Pilots and 2. US Pilots with an international background (ie European). The difference between these two interview scenerios is night and day.
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HK CAD recognizes the US ATP. We didn't have to take any more writtens than the other guys. You might get a break on some of them if you had UK license, but that would be because the rules were based on UK rules, not some secret plot against Americans.
I never noticed or have experienced any problems with having a US background, nor have any of the other guys I knew.
As far as differences in the interviews, consider that someone who has already migrated from one continent to another may understand better the realities of moving somewhere a long way from home. Or at least have a better idea of the concept than a fella who has never left Cleveland. So, there may be some different questions asked of the two candidates.
I never noticed or have experienced any problems with having a US background, nor have any of the other guys I knew.
As far as differences in the interviews, consider that someone who has already migrated from one continent to another may understand better the realities of moving somewhere a long way from home. Or at least have a better idea of the concept than a fella who has never left Cleveland. So, there may be some different questions asked of the two candidates.
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Originally Posted by CAPT146
I understood it has something to do with HK CAD not recognizing the US ATPL and requires all pilots to sit every single exam before they will issue a licence. That obviously makes it very difficult for a US guy to get a Job base in Hong Kong.
I am also 100% American, and I have not been treated with any disdain or disrespect (except maybe at the bar, but then again the Canadians get it pretty good as well...all in good fun of course) at all including the interview process. I think the problem is with the individual. Most Americans that I have spoken with would jump at the chance to fly for Cathay Pacific, if for nothing else the time off and starting pay, but almost none of them are willing to do what is required to get through the interview process. And that is what might get you some "disdain" as well....after all you have wasted their, and your own, time.
My opinion, humbly submitted,
Mayday
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I just happened to be in New York recently, and there was a week long interview process taking place. So that's 5 interviews a day for five days..... One of the reasons that CX interviews get the sh!ts is, they travel across the other side of the planet to conduct these interviews, and it is not uncommon for only 10 or 15 of those 30 pilots to turn up!
On the other hand.... 30 out of 30 will turn up (with the odd no show) when interviews are done in Sydney, Joburg or in Europe.
Often when asked "how do you feel about the possibility of moving to Hong Kong in the future on the Pax fleet?" Americans will often reply "No.... i don't ever want to leave the US". Which is fine once you are in the company.... but a little arrogant during the interview. One must remember that CX is an Asian airline, and therefore one must approach the interview process accordingly.
(All this straight from the mouth of someone who does the interviews on a regular basis)
On the other hand.... 30 out of 30 will turn up (with the odd no show) when interviews are done in Sydney, Joburg or in Europe.
Often when asked "how do you feel about the possibility of moving to Hong Kong in the future on the Pax fleet?" Americans will often reply "No.... i don't ever want to leave the US". Which is fine once you are in the company.... but a little arrogant during the interview. One must remember that CX is an Asian airline, and therefore one must approach the interview process accordingly.
(All this straight from the mouth of someone who does the interviews on a regular basis)
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The majority of americans are not willing to relocate worldwide,and show up at the first interview unprepared. They read a few chapters of HTBG and give up because they really do not know how to study for a test to which they do not have the questions in advance.
Study hard and you can get the job. It is that simple. Cathay has nothing against you.
Study hard and you can get the job. It is that simple. Cathay has nothing against you.
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I had not just read HTBJ, but other tech pubs as well. Studied all of it intently to have a shot. One of the first questions was what did you study. What books exactly. From that point on the technical questions went in a completely different direction. Almost every question I answered was contested, even the ones that I nailed. Some questions completely irrelevant to the interview process, many meant to be argumentative.
Contrast that with friends that I have with a European background that actually got assistance in answering some of the questions. A slap on the back at the end of the interview asking 'where have you been for so long?'
I never said anything negative about Hong Kong or Asia and was completely open to relocating. But none of that seemed to matter. It was almost pre-conceived. I wasn't asking for a hand out, just an honest, fair shot to work at a great company.
RF
Contrast that with friends that I have with a European background that actually got assistance in answering some of the questions. A slap on the back at the end of the interview asking 'where have you been for so long?'
I never said anything negative about Hong Kong or Asia and was completely open to relocating. But none of that seemed to matter. It was almost pre-conceived. I wasn't asking for a hand out, just an honest, fair shot to work at a great company.
RF
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Originally Posted by Redflyin
I can understand that, but there is so much disdain for the American pilots during the interview process itself. I just don't get it. The interviews that are done in the US fall into two categories.....1. US Pilots and 2. US Pilots with an international background (ie European). The difference between these two interview scenerios is night and day.
CX could be such a great job, it's too bad that fellow pilots allow the naughty schoolchild intimidation and rule to be an accepted part of life. This has nothing to do with management, we do it to ourselves. Everyone among us, including many very senior in the C&T staff complain about the system. Then they go out and destroy their young with an ERAS.
This ain't the proverbial mission to Mars, and airlines in the US don't have airplanes falling out of the sky because they don't treat it as such. Let's lighten up on each other and recognise those who like to make life difficult here as nothing more than cowards with delicate egos.
I don't think things will change here, and more often than not an American will find themself on a difficult road. But, then again, so is everyone else!
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Positive Part I for this Yank
I have yet to find the time to sit and write a coherent recap of my Phase I interview which was the last week in June in SF. However, I did want to reply to this thread and state that I saw nothing negative or "anti U.S." in the interview.
Both gentlemen was very professional and cordial. I suspect that the fact that 80% of my flight time has been flown overseas, we lived in Germany when I was a kid, as an adult we have been stationed in HI & twice in Italy and are very open to moving to HK for a few years played in my favor. I did get the technical questions, including lots on the P-3 prop system, which I hadn't even reviewed but managed to drag out of my brain. Also got asked about the differences between the motors on the Metroliner (previous aircraft) and the Kingair (current aircraft), which I thought was interesting. I will say I studied my a$$ off for about 3 solid weeks prior, including HTBJ & Ace the...Interview. Looks like it all paid off, got the email for Part II the end of next month.
But again, my experience was entirely positive in the first interview.
Best of luck all,
265
Both gentlemen was very professional and cordial. I suspect that the fact that 80% of my flight time has been flown overseas, we lived in Germany when I was a kid, as an adult we have been stationed in HI & twice in Italy and are very open to moving to HK for a few years played in my favor. I did get the technical questions, including lots on the P-3 prop system, which I hadn't even reviewed but managed to drag out of my brain. Also got asked about the differences between the motors on the Metroliner (previous aircraft) and the Kingair (current aircraft), which I thought was interesting. I will say I studied my a$$ off for about 3 solid weeks prior, including HTBJ & Ace the...Interview. Looks like it all paid off, got the email for Part II the end of next month.
But again, my experience was entirely positive in the first interview.
Best of luck all,
265
Last edited by VVJM265; 21st Jul 2006 at 14:56.
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What did you Study?
RedFlyin;
My Question is simple, what were you told to study when they contacted you BEFORE your Initial interview?
It's my strong feeling that just as All the other Applicants (worldwide) you were told either by lettre or by Phone that it is important that you study the HTBJ in Depth....
It's not so much a Knowledge test as more a devotion test, if you are devoted enough you WILL have read it front till back.
why did you elect to not study that book?
there are so many americans joining Cathay, they are thinking of opening a McDonalds in CX City. 
(just joking guy's)
Pointer
My Question is simple, what were you told to study when they contacted you BEFORE your Initial interview?
It's my strong feeling that just as All the other Applicants (worldwide) you were told either by lettre or by Phone that it is important that you study the HTBJ in Depth....
It's not so much a Knowledge test as more a devotion test, if you are devoted enough you WILL have read it front till back.
why did you elect to not study that book?
there are so many americans joining Cathay, they are thinking of opening a McDonalds in CX City. (just joking guy's)Pointer
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Originally Posted by Pointer
RedFlyin;
My Question is simple, what were you told to study when they contacted you BEFORE your Initial interview?
It's my strong feeling that just as All the other Applicants (worldwide) you were told either by lettre or by Phone that it is important that you study the HTBJ in Depth....
It's not so much a Knowledge test as more a devotion test, if you are devoted enough you WILL have read it front till back.
why did you elect to not study that book?
there are so many americans joining Cathay, they are thinking of opening a McDonalds in CX City. (just joking guy's)
Pointer
My Question is simple, what were you told to study when they contacted you BEFORE your Initial interview?
It's my strong feeling that just as All the other Applicants (worldwide) you were told either by lettre or by Phone that it is important that you study the HTBJ in Depth....
It's not so much a Knowledge test as more a devotion test, if you are devoted enough you WILL have read it front till back.
why did you elect to not study that book?
there are so many americans joining Cathay, they are thinking of opening a McDonalds in CX City. (just joking guy's)Pointer
"The interview comprises a thirty minute technical multi-choice questionnaire and an hour's interview of both personal and technical questions."
"As Cathay Pacific Airways maintains a high technical standard, we recommend you review the technical aspects of your ATPL theory prior to attending the interview."
That's it. All other specific recommendations came from this board, Flight Info, or the AirInc article last Aug. There is a wealth of info out there, from the FAA's web site, to HTBJ, Aero for Naval Aviators, etc. Just order a few books from www.pilotmall.com and start studying."As Cathay Pacific Airways maintains a high technical standard, we recommend you review the technical aspects of your ATPL theory prior to attending the interview."
Best of luck,
265
Last edited by VVJM265; 21st Jul 2006 at 14:57.
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I did study and re-read HTBJ. Along with Ace the Technical Pilot Interview, Fly the Wing, ATP questions banks, various interview prep books and info on Hong Kong itself. Had the complete fleet and company history down. When I told them the type of things that I had used to prep, they elected to hardly ask me any questions about those subjects.
No questions about Cathay history or current fleet. No questions about current powerplants or thrust ratings.
Only one 747 related question, which I nailed.
Most of the questions that I knew I got right were still contested. Another American applicant was challenged on why he got a college degree and if that made him a better pilot. When he said 'I think it might make an individual more well rounded', they immediately asked him "so you think we do it wrong by not requiring a degree". How is that not confrontational and pre-conceived? How is it that even releviant?
VVJ makes my point for me. International experience with some form of international background. In no way am I saying he wasn't prepared, or an excellent candidate, just pointing out what seems to be and obvious trend to me. By the way, congrats on the second interview.
I know that I studied just as hard and got different interview. Maybe no one else is willing to say it, but I am. Good luck to all.
RF
No questions about Cathay history or current fleet. No questions about current powerplants or thrust ratings.
Only one 747 related question, which I nailed.
Most of the questions that I knew I got right were still contested. Another American applicant was challenged on why he got a college degree and if that made him a better pilot. When he said 'I think it might make an individual more well rounded', they immediately asked him "so you think we do it wrong by not requiring a degree". How is that not confrontational and pre-conceived? How is it that even releviant?
VVJ makes my point for me. International experience with some form of international background. In no way am I saying he wasn't prepared, or an excellent candidate, just pointing out what seems to be and obvious trend to me. By the way, congrats on the second interview.
I know that I studied just as hard and got different interview. Maybe no one else is willing to say it, but I am. Good luck to all.
RF
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I went through both interviews, and can honestly say there was no anti-american sentiment. During the second interview, they made it a point to make themselves feel comfortable about my motivations and commitment to CX and HKG. I'm truly sorry to hear about your experiences. Perhaps they were trying to rattle your cage. They certainly did during my final interview.
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Redflyin
I think you are perhaps being a little naive. Did you think that just by being there and having studied you would get a job offer. They obviously wanted to see how you could handle pressure. They would also want to see what your character was like ie would they be able to sit beside you for 10 hours on a longhaul flight - will you fit in!
You are making a mountain out of a molehill concerning the other candidate over his degree. It is again standard interview technique to see how people react. Will they stand up for themselves or just bend with the wind because that is what they think that the interviewer wants to hear.
Again with your tech answers I am not sure you have it right as the interviewers will not normally say whether you have the question correct or not. If they think you have scant knowledge or are just regurgitating information without an understanding of the subject matter, then expect probing questions to follow. Best advice there for people is to admit they are not sure and stop digging!! Further questions may come to see if the knowledge is there, but in the dim and distant past.
The interviewers fully understand that this can be a life changing / career progression event for most of the candidates and they will give the candidates every opportunity to shine. However, Cathay is not a free lunch and you have to be motivated, capable and more importantly fit in.
I speak from first hand knowledge of the process and interviewing in LA and NYC. There is NO bias, I just think that some candidates do not expect to the kind of interview process that takes place.
I think you are perhaps being a little naive. Did you think that just by being there and having studied you would get a job offer. They obviously wanted to see how you could handle pressure. They would also want to see what your character was like ie would they be able to sit beside you for 10 hours on a longhaul flight - will you fit in!
You are making a mountain out of a molehill concerning the other candidate over his degree. It is again standard interview technique to see how people react. Will they stand up for themselves or just bend with the wind because that is what they think that the interviewer wants to hear.
Again with your tech answers I am not sure you have it right as the interviewers will not normally say whether you have the question correct or not. If they think you have scant knowledge or are just regurgitating information without an understanding of the subject matter, then expect probing questions to follow. Best advice there for people is to admit they are not sure and stop digging!! Further questions may come to see if the knowledge is there, but in the dim and distant past.
The interviewers fully understand that this can be a life changing / career progression event for most of the candidates and they will give the candidates every opportunity to shine. However, Cathay is not a free lunch and you have to be motivated, capable and more importantly fit in.
I speak from first hand knowledge of the process and interviewing in LA and NYC. There is NO bias, I just think that some candidates do not expect to the kind of interview process that takes place.
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Both of my interviews were more relaxed than a Great Lakes interview. Does that mean that Great Lakes is anti-American?
Maybe they just didn't think that you fit in. There are alot of Americans roaming the halls of Cathay City, and more to come with the planned -400ERFs on the way.
Mayday
Maybe they just didn't think that you fit in. There are alot of Americans roaming the halls of Cathay City, and more to come with the planned -400ERFs on the way.
Mayday
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RF,
Just speaking from my own personal experience, I can say that I have yet to feel ANY anti-american sentiment at Cathay. I interviewed in June of last year and again in November, and was offered a position after additional medical tests were completed. I read and reread....and reread all of the study material to prepare for these career interviews, and was fortunate to be have been successful with the interview process. I am also american, with no international flying experience. I'm sorry to hear that you were not selected; however, this is not an uncommon story. I have many friends, some of which are from the EU and Canada, who have been unsuccessful with both the first and second interviews. Some had paid for interview prep, many paid for sim time. In the end, they were not selected. This has no bearing on being american, canadian, european, or australian. Having been through the training, and met many other successful candidates, I can assure you that everyone has similar stories of mates, and colleagues that were not offered a position. In my second interview group, only myself and another canadian were selected, while two canadians and two european's were not. In the following group, only another american and canadian. This amounts to 4 people out of 14. The only difference between these people and you, is they have not writted stories about anti-canadian, or anti-european sentiment. Cathay is an extremely diverse company with approximately 80 nationalities on the flight deck, and they have hired more american's recently than EVER before. This will continue with the additional 747ERF purchases, and their expansion plans.
Just speaking from my own personal experience, I can say that I have yet to feel ANY anti-american sentiment at Cathay. I interviewed in June of last year and again in November, and was offered a position after additional medical tests were completed. I read and reread....and reread all of the study material to prepare for these career interviews, and was fortunate to be have been successful with the interview process. I am also american, with no international flying experience. I'm sorry to hear that you were not selected; however, this is not an uncommon story. I have many friends, some of which are from the EU and Canada, who have been unsuccessful with both the first and second interviews. Some had paid for interview prep, many paid for sim time. In the end, they were not selected. This has no bearing on being american, canadian, european, or australian. Having been through the training, and met many other successful candidates, I can assure you that everyone has similar stories of mates, and colleagues that were not offered a position. In my second interview group, only myself and another canadian were selected, while two canadians and two european's were not. In the following group, only another american and canadian. This amounts to 4 people out of 14. The only difference between these people and you, is they have not writted stories about anti-canadian, or anti-european sentiment. Cathay is an extremely diverse company with approximately 80 nationalities on the flight deck, and they have hired more american's recently than EVER before. This will continue with the additional 747ERF purchases, and their expansion plans.