so what about the ban
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: All over the show like a madwomans crap
Posts: 494
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PM
The facts are this: The captain WILL NOT have the tag of scab because he accepted an upgrade. The newhire WILL have the tag of scab because he, or she, joined while an industrial dispute was taking place with a hiring ban in force, with the backing of IFALPA.
Nosey
The facts are this: The captain WILL NOT have the tag of scab because he accepted an upgrade. The newhire WILL have the tag of scab because he, or she, joined while an industrial dispute was taking place with a hiring ban in force, with the backing of IFALPA.
Nosey
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Trinidad
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Band
NoseGear
I think that you are wrong, because if a new pilot joins he should be supported by HKAOA because he had nothing to do with the 49's and he is trying to build his career with the company. On the other hand people who is in the company and taking upgrades are the scabs because they are taking the places of the 49's. I hope that 1 day the HKAOA looks at what I said and band the people who take the upgrades. If anyone agrees with me let me know.
[email protected]
I think that you are wrong, because if a new pilot joins he should be supported by HKAOA because he had nothing to do with the 49's and he is trying to build his career with the company. On the other hand people who is in the company and taking upgrades are the scabs because they are taking the places of the 49's. I hope that 1 day the HKAOA looks at what I said and band the people who take the upgrades. If anyone agrees with me let me know.
[email protected]
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: All over the show like a madwomans crap
Posts: 494
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cordy, wether or not you think I am wrong is not the point, the facts remain as I have stated above.
If you joined CX under normal circumstances, then the AOA would support you, but not if you join during a labour dispute, while part of that dispute is a hiring ban. It is NOT in place to try and curtail or damage your career, but simply to try and put pressure on management to re-instate the unfairly sacked pilots.
Nosey
If you joined CX under normal circumstances, then the AOA would support you, but not if you join during a labour dispute, while part of that dispute is a hiring ban. It is NOT in place to try and curtail or damage your career, but simply to try and put pressure on management to re-instate the unfairly sacked pilots.
Nosey
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Dirka-dirka-stan
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A theory
Okay the ban is still on - right.
Well what happens after the upgrades and people take the upgrades? 49 were fired/ousted (not good).
After a while if they don't look at the future there will come a time when they will need more pilots to train. Well what happens then?
Scabs? Won't last too long I think. They would have to sit down and discuss with HKAOA.
Now it would take time but it would have to happen. But he question is... How much time is involved?
Any thoughts?
Okay the ban is still on - right.
Well what happens after the upgrades and people take the upgrades? 49 were fired/ousted (not good).
After a while if they don't look at the future there will come a time when they will need more pilots to train. Well what happens then?
Scabs? Won't last too long I think. They would have to sit down and discuss with HKAOA.
Now it would take time but it would have to happen. But he question is... How much time is involved?
Any thoughts?
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Trinidad
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ban
NoseGear
Can you say what is a scab, and who will be branded as 1.
Well it is not nice to lose a job as it happened with me in LIAT when they did away with the DHC6, but I had to accept it in the end as they are the company. I hope that the 49's or 51 pilots get back they jobs because I would love to join the company and I do not want to be knowned as a scab.
Best wished to all the pilots in the world and happy landings.
Cordy
Can you say what is a scab, and who will be branded as 1.
Well it is not nice to lose a job as it happened with me in LIAT when they did away with the DHC6, but I had to accept it in the end as they are the company. I hope that the 49's or 51 pilots get back they jobs because I would love to join the company and I do not want to be knowned as a scab.
Best wished to all the pilots in the world and happy landings.
Cordy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: The Fragrant Harbour
Age: 49
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
frankg
The problem is that all the guys sitting on current yes letters applied and started the interview process before the 49 were sacked, they were not interviewed as replacement workers meerly for normal expansion.
Now if they say no to a start they will never get another shot at CX again. there will be no second chance...
I for one have wanted to work for CX all my life and was interviewed prior to this happening. There is no other airline I can apply to that even comes close. As a Kiwi wanting to fly long haul CX IS the only option.
Had this happened before my interviews i would have stopped updating and/ or held off applying.
In regards to a previous question about my fellow work collegues, the company i work for has about 95% alpa membership and all but maybe one or 2 have said to me "take the job", they all mentioned the lack of consistancy from the AOA when they let the people take upgrades, infact every CX pilot i have spoken to in the last three weeks has said they would take the job too if in my current position.
Basically i know for a fact if i dont take the job someone else will.
From what i have read recently the 49er dispute has more chance of being resolved in the court room than by this ban.
Before someone says im a heartles scab with no feelings, I have spent many many sleepless nights worrying about this.... do i sacrifice my life dream and career only to have the next bloke take the position (because they will)....
The problem is that all the guys sitting on current yes letters applied and started the interview process before the 49 were sacked, they were not interviewed as replacement workers meerly for normal expansion.
Now if they say no to a start they will never get another shot at CX again. there will be no second chance...
I for one have wanted to work for CX all my life and was interviewed prior to this happening. There is no other airline I can apply to that even comes close. As a Kiwi wanting to fly long haul CX IS the only option.
Had this happened before my interviews i would have stopped updating and/ or held off applying.
In regards to a previous question about my fellow work collegues, the company i work for has about 95% alpa membership and all but maybe one or 2 have said to me "take the job", they all mentioned the lack of consistancy from the AOA when they let the people take upgrades, infact every CX pilot i have spoken to in the last three weeks has said they would take the job too if in my current position.
Basically i know for a fact if i dont take the job someone else will.
From what i have read recently the 49er dispute has more chance of being resolved in the court room than by this ban.
Before someone says im a heartles scab with no feelings, I have spent many many sleepless nights worrying about this.... do i sacrifice my life dream and career only to have the next bloke take the position (because they will)....
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: England
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nosegear
We all know the facts as you state them. I doubt if anyone on this thread would not like to see the sacked pilots reinstated, myself included.
We all know that the ban was put in place to put the management under pressure, and while you say that you do not want to 'curtail and damage' peoples' careers, that is exactly what you are doing. The solidarity you are showing for your sacked colleagues is outstanding and admirable, but you show no solidarity with the pilot fraternity worldwide by potentially denying them the chance to take the dream job. The irony is that IFALPA's aim must surely be to promote worldwide solidarity amongst pilots.
If you were in a country where you could strike yourselves, then you would be on firmer ground in asking pilots not to do join during industrial action. As things stand you are asking folks with alot less than you, to risk alot more than you are, and it appears inappropriate to many of us.
I accept that this will probably ellicit the usual hard line union rhetoric, but some grown-up logical responses would be appreciated too.
We all know the facts as you state them. I doubt if anyone on this thread would not like to see the sacked pilots reinstated, myself included.
We all know that the ban was put in place to put the management under pressure, and while you say that you do not want to 'curtail and damage' peoples' careers, that is exactly what you are doing. The solidarity you are showing for your sacked colleagues is outstanding and admirable, but you show no solidarity with the pilot fraternity worldwide by potentially denying them the chance to take the dream job. The irony is that IFALPA's aim must surely be to promote worldwide solidarity amongst pilots.
If you were in a country where you could strike yourselves, then you would be on firmer ground in asking pilots not to do join during industrial action. As things stand you are asking folks with alot less than you, to risk alot more than you are, and it appears inappropriate to many of us.
I accept that this will probably ellicit the usual hard line union rhetoric, but some grown-up logical responses would be appreciated too.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
goodness frankg...just the mature response expected from someone childish enough to be a big union supporter.....my, my...if you and your brethern were sincere in the support of your terminated brethern...if in fact you really work there (doubt it), then all vacancies including the commands made available by their departure would also be covered under this ban....which is toothless for this very reason....so what about "no" don't you understand....the way most people see it is the ones accepting commands are the real "scabs" if you like...not even endorsing crossing a picket line, or taking the job of somebody apparently unfairly dismissed....but hey...your colleagues did...so why expect others who seek employment act differently.....so keep the name calling right on coming...by any chance are you one of those chip-bearing "eighty-whiners?"....no scabs down there either...everybody RESIGNED....
Last edited by ironbutt57; 20th Apr 2002 at 12:52.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you're missing the point there dude, nobody here is supporting cx's actions, nobody should be happy what happens to those folks anybody can be next.....but if you want a ban, make it a real one...for everybody, not just the new blokes looking for work....apply it to yourselves as well...or shut the hell up....doubt you're even a pilot.....
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, nobody really gives a darn about the "ban", HKAOA or the difficulities that the CX pilots have (or think they have)...
Spoiled brats the lot.
Boot out a few more...to get their attention, so they will stop whining...wonder why they do it here?...thought they had their "own" forum....must have crashed...like their "action".
Spoiled brats the lot.
Boot out a few more...to get their attention, so they will stop whining...wonder why they do it here?...thought they had their "own" forum....must have crashed...like their "action".
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1) gave dues to alpo for 10 years
2) lost one job to a strike (was probationary, just left...company went down later)
3) looking at past labor disputes, all of which occurred for reasonable causes, some better that others, the "scab threat" just doesn't work...needs to be a more forward-thinking approach to the solidarity issue (ideas anybody?)
4) the industry in the u.s. anyway cries scab during a dispute, then the scabs wind up in the union...case in point...continental, and also many eastern "scabs" now employed at alpo airlines...need a new approach fellows...there is a huge credibility problem which needs to b addressed, not ignored as it is now
if you want to call names the discussion is pointless...if you want to discuss it, then let's go for it, and give the folks a good reason to support the "ban", if you expect new folks to sacrifice their employment opportunities at cx, then you need to offer some support as well, not just selfish, silly threats
2) lost one job to a strike (was probationary, just left...company went down later)
3) looking at past labor disputes, all of which occurred for reasonable causes, some better that others, the "scab threat" just doesn't work...needs to be a more forward-thinking approach to the solidarity issue (ideas anybody?)
4) the industry in the u.s. anyway cries scab during a dispute, then the scabs wind up in the union...case in point...continental, and also many eastern "scabs" now employed at alpo airlines...need a new approach fellows...there is a huge credibility problem which needs to b addressed, not ignored as it is now
if you want to call names the discussion is pointless...if you want to discuss it, then let's go for it, and give the folks a good reason to support the "ban", if you expect new folks to sacrifice their employment opportunities at cx, then you need to offer some support as well, not just selfish, silly threats
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: arm's length from screen
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From what I've read I believe that the only solution is to GET RID OF THE CX CEO TYLER. From what I've read about the man he seems like quite an @sshole....and where there's an @asshole there's SH!T. Perhaps it's time for the CX pilots to hire a good Private Investigator and dig up some dirt on him. Nothing like a couple of "Kodak Moments" to expedite his departure. I'm sure you would get the results you're looking for but if not....it would raise moral for sure.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well frankie....I told you over a year ago that CX would become just another contract asian airline, much like SQ....no one listened...now tough beans.
The HKAOA is on the wrong side of the power curve...too many pilots for the available positions...for the next five years (at least)...costs NEED to be trimmed, and so they are...with cheaper labor. A tried and true method. The "long stable career" days are...loooooooong gone.
The HKAOA is on the wrong side of the power curve...too many pilots for the available positions...for the next five years (at least)...costs NEED to be trimmed, and so they are...with cheaper labor. A tried and true method. The "long stable career" days are...loooooooong gone.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apologies if I am out of line here, but as a very frequent flyer I have to say that I am much more comfortable knowing that the person in charge of my safety is there on merit, not simply because they have been doing the #2 job for so many years.
There can't be many other businesses left where this "promotion/salary based on years of service" concept still holds - even the big Japanese companies are having to see that this is not a good way to get the most efficient use of the best people.
Having said that, I should say that I don't actually have any worries about the quality of the CX crew who seem to deserve their very high reputation.
There can't be many other businesses left where this "promotion/salary based on years of service" concept still holds - even the big Japanese companies are having to see that this is not a good way to get the most efficient use of the best people.
Having said that, I should say that I don't actually have any worries about the quality of the CX crew who seem to deserve their very high reputation.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ALPO a "nickname" for ALPA coined by a pilot from the original Frontier Airlines after they were not bought by United whose ALPA membership fought the buyout, in fear of having a "bscale" on the property, thus relegating the Frontier pilots to the likes of Peopleexpress...ALPO is a brand of canned dog food in the states..hence "the dog-food union" , sad to see CX goings on, but the ban IMHO is only hurting prospective new-hires, not the company, internal promotion/command vacancies should have been refused as well...if ineffective in the struggle, most certainly effective in presenting a picture of solidarity, and credibility amongst prospective new-hires....good luck down there
chrisstep....fair comment...in the vast majority of cases, the senior first officer IS the most qualified to be promoted to capt, and at most if not all airlines, if he/she doesn't successfully complete the screening and intense training involved, they are reverted to their previous position, or terminated.
, sad to see CX goings on, but the ban IMHO is only hurting prospective new-hires, not the company, internal promotion/command vacancies should have been refused as well...if ineffective in the struggle, most certainly effective in presenting a picture of solidarity, and credibility amongst prospective new-hires....good luck down therechrisstep....fair comment...in the vast majority of cases, the senior first officer IS the most qualified to be promoted to capt, and at most if not all airlines, if he/she doesn't successfully complete the screening and intense training involved, they are reverted to their previous position, or terminated.
Last edited by ironbutt57; 23rd Apr 2002 at 04:32.