Criminal Conviction A Problem?
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Criminal Conviction A Problem?
I am just about to put down a large amount of cash to do my CPL/IR. The problem is that I have a few convictions. The last one was 10 years ago and they are the result of a mis-spent youth. I saw a post earlier concerning someone with a drink drive conviction and the grief he has had in obtaining employment.
What I need to know is will I have trouble getting a job with 6 (spent) convictions.
What I need to know is will I have trouble getting a job with 6 (spent) convictions.
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Getting a job with a criminal record
Hi,
Hope someone here can help with this one.
I have been considering laying down the cash for an integrated ATPL, but was wondering if the fact that I have a criminal record would affect my chances of a job afterwards.
I have 2 convictions, both of which happened over 8 years ago.
Does the Rehabilitation of offenders act apply in this case (Spent conviction)?
Does anyone have any idea whether the job of pilot is currently exempted from the act (Like solicitors, traffic wardens etc.)? or whether spent convictions must be declared when applying for a job as pilot.
If not currently exempt, then what are the chances that this may happen in the future due to recent events.
What would the implications be if flying to visa destinations etc.?
Thanks
Hope someone here can help with this one.
I have been considering laying down the cash for an integrated ATPL, but was wondering if the fact that I have a criminal record would affect my chances of a job afterwards.
I have 2 convictions, both of which happened over 8 years ago.
Does the Rehabilitation of offenders act apply in this case (Spent conviction)?
Does anyone have any idea whether the job of pilot is currently exempted from the act (Like solicitors, traffic wardens etc.)? or whether spent convictions must be declared when applying for a job as pilot.
If not currently exempt, then what are the chances that this may happen in the future due to recent events.
What would the implications be if flying to visa destinations etc.?
Thanks
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http://www.emplaw.co.uk/free/data/026096.htm http://www.york.ac.uk/admin/persnl/jobs/pack/spcon.htm
should answer your questions
[ 17 November 2001: Message edited by: Base leg ]
should answer your questions
[ 17 November 2001: Message edited by: Base leg ]
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Thanks base leg, those were very useful links.
According to the employment law site, pilots do NOT have to declare spent convictions, but do you reckon this is likely to change in the future, in light of Sept 11.
According to the employment law site, pilots do NOT have to declare spent convictions, but do you reckon this is likely to change in the future, in light of Sept 11.
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Doughboy - I know little about the legal side of it, but I used to be involved in recruitment in the industry, and this sort of thing cropped up reasonably regularly. What you don't put on a CV cannot be considered, but if you're asked the question on an application form I respectfully suggest that you answer it candidly. Unless the convictions were for a major crime, or dishonesty and you want to be a beancounter, (although the 2 go together sometimes 
), I would hope that the employer would consider all your plus points before taking the offences into consideration, if at all.
Best of luck.
), I would hope that the employer would consider all your plus points before taking the offences into consideration, if at all.Best of luck.
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I'd advise that you don't volunteer anything unless asked, so long as the covictions are 'spent' for the purposes of the act, but that there is little to be gained by concealing these convictions if the company asks about your legal history. Honesty tends to be the best policy, once asked.
I'll mak siccar
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Doughyboy,I don't know what you should do, because facts are always different. Years ago, though, I heard of an MP here who asked for the Speaker's permission to say a few words to the House.
He told the members that he had just received a letter, and he proposed to read it. The sender had discovered that the MP had a criminal record and he intended to expose him unless he paid blackmail.
I have to tell the House, said the MP, that the allegation is completely true. X years ago, when I was Y years old, I unsuccessfully attempted armed robbery. I was caught, tried, convicted, and imprisoned. In jail I thought a lot about what I had done, and resolved never to do anything like it again.
On release I was able to find a modest job. I became interested in politics. I joined a party and was active in constituency work. I ran for nomination and was selected. I ran for election and was elected. Since my election I have done my work in the Commons as well and as hard as I can. Not since that conviction years ago have I had the slightest brush with the law. There is no need for the letter writer to expose me. I am telling you myself.
That is not a quotation, but the gist. He sat down to an ovation. New business?
I would not run around volunteering information on whatever happened long ago, but this anecdote would guide me if I were asked. There is no guarantee that the reaction would always be so positive, but that is life, and it brings many unsought difficulties of many kinds. If when asked you do not deny it, no one can add a new deception to a long-dead crime.
Good luck.
He told the members that he had just received a letter, and he proposed to read it. The sender had discovered that the MP had a criminal record and he intended to expose him unless he paid blackmail.
I have to tell the House, said the MP, that the allegation is completely true. X years ago, when I was Y years old, I unsuccessfully attempted armed robbery. I was caught, tried, convicted, and imprisoned. In jail I thought a lot about what I had done, and resolved never to do anything like it again.
On release I was able to find a modest job. I became interested in politics. I joined a party and was active in constituency work. I ran for nomination and was selected. I ran for election and was elected. Since my election I have done my work in the Commons as well and as hard as I can. Not since that conviction years ago have I had the slightest brush with the law. There is no need for the letter writer to expose me. I am telling you myself.
That is not a quotation, but the gist. He sat down to an ovation. New business?
I would not run around volunteering information on whatever happened long ago, but this anecdote would guide me if I were asked. There is no guarantee that the reaction would always be so positive, but that is life, and it brings many unsought difficulties of many kinds. If when asked you do not deny it, no one can add a new deception to a long-dead crime.
Good luck.
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Thanks for the advice all.
I think if I was asked on an application form whether or not I had a criminal record, if the Rehabilitation of offenders act applied then I would deny it, as the act allows and encourages this. The problem is that at the moment 14 categories of jobs are excluded from the act whereby convictions must be mentioned. These range from Taxi Driver, to Solicitor. I wonder if after the Sept 11 attacks, the act might be ammended to include pilots in this list. Any opinions?
=Joe Bolt, Nothing serious, minor theft at 16 (Prank involving removing meat from a butchers freezer) and assault at 19 (Drunken student fight)
I think if I was asked on an application form whether or not I had a criminal record, if the Rehabilitation of offenders act applied then I would deny it, as the act allows and encourages this. The problem is that at the moment 14 categories of jobs are excluded from the act whereby convictions must be mentioned. These range from Taxi Driver, to Solicitor. I wonder if after the Sept 11 attacks, the act might be ammended to include pilots in this list. Any opinions?
=Joe Bolt, Nothing serious, minor theft at 16 (Prank involving removing meat from a butchers freezer) and assault at 19 (Drunken student fight)
I say there boy
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I got arrested for being Drunk and Disorderly at 17, an offence now long since spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.
Anyway, I only got an official caution - most application forms are worded 'have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence' - implying a trip to court rather than an official ticking off.
The actual offence was more comical than serious - a product of too much lager coupled with bored local cops looking for someone to book on a mid-week evening in summer.
foggy.
[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]
Anyway, I only got an official caution - most application forms are worded 'have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence' - implying a trip to court rather than an official ticking off.
The actual offence was more comical than serious - a product of too much lager coupled with bored local cops looking for someone to book on a mid-week evening in summer.
foggy.
[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]
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Will a criminal record affect a flying career?
Hi,
I'm in the early stages of progressing through a PPL course in the UK and am considering completing the remaining flying hours in America followed by a JAA ATPL course and then hopefully onward into a commercial piloting career.
Unfortunately, some foolish teenage behaviour 12 years ago involving the theft of a boat and a trailer left me with a criminal record and a requirement to partake in 90 hours of community service.
I am trying to establish what bearing my criminal record will have on my career aspirations, with regard to training in America, gaining employment with UK airlines and working elsewhere in the world as a pilot.
I have spoken to one UK airline who have told me 'a criminal record would not rule me out and that they would consider my circumstances on application', but I need to establish exactly where I stand prior to forking out £30/40k and spending 2 years training, only to find I cannot get a job.
Can anyone offer any advice around my circumstances, or point me in the direction of someone who can?
Regards,
Tom
I'm in the early stages of progressing through a PPL course in the UK and am considering completing the remaining flying hours in America followed by a JAA ATPL course and then hopefully onward into a commercial piloting career.
Unfortunately, some foolish teenage behaviour 12 years ago involving the theft of a boat and a trailer left me with a criminal record and a requirement to partake in 90 hours of community service.
I am trying to establish what bearing my criminal record will have on my career aspirations, with regard to training in America, gaining employment with UK airlines and working elsewhere in the world as a pilot.
I have spoken to one UK airline who have told me 'a criminal record would not rule me out and that they would consider my circumstances on application', but I need to establish exactly where I stand prior to forking out £30/40k and spending 2 years training, only to find I cannot get a job.
Can anyone offer any advice around my circumstances, or point me in the direction of someone who can?
Regards,
Tom
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TomThai,
This is going from memory and my references are all at work, so double check it with the home office website... homeoffice.gov.uk or something like that.
The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act says that for someone who is sentenced to 30 months in da gaol or less (which covers your community service order) has to disclose the conviction for up to 10 years. After the 10 year period the crime is "spent" and the slate is effectively wiped clean and you do not normally have to disclose the offence.
Now there is a currently a review of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act in motion, I seem to recall however that it is mainly being directed at youth crime, so I doubt it will retrospectively alter dates/sentencing times etc.
So basically, your conviction is spent and should not be a factor. Most application forms will include a brief section on the act also mentioning that parking tickets and minor traffic violations (i.e. those that do not end up in court) can be forgotten.
As for access/employment/student visa in the States not my field sorry. Speak to their consulate.
For definitive advice talk to your solicitor and explain the EXACT circumstances of the offence.
FM
edited for speeelllinggg
This is going from memory and my references are all at work, so double check it with the home office website... homeoffice.gov.uk or something like that.
The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act says that for someone who is sentenced to 30 months in da gaol or less (which covers your community service order) has to disclose the conviction for up to 10 years. After the 10 year period the crime is "spent" and the slate is effectively wiped clean and you do not normally have to disclose the offence.
Now there is a currently a review of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act in motion, I seem to recall however that it is mainly being directed at youth crime, so I doubt it will retrospectively alter dates/sentencing times etc.
So basically, your conviction is spent and should not be a factor. Most application forms will include a brief section on the act also mentioning that parking tickets and minor traffic violations (i.e. those that do not end up in court) can be forgotten.
As for access/employment/student visa in the States not my field sorry. Speak to their consulate.
For definitive advice talk to your solicitor and explain the EXACT circumstances of the offence.
FM
edited for speeelllinggg
Last edited by Father Mulcahy; 11th Sep 2002 at 18:15.
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Since you mention the U.S for flight training, I suggest you first check with your local U.S embassy regarding your visa.
Since 9/11, the issue of visas for flight training are under great scrutiny. INS does an extensive background check.
Your criminal record may be a problem for them.
So check first to see if you can obtain the visa !!
Also look into Canada, they may be a bit more understanding.
Good Luck.
Since 9/11, the issue of visas for flight training are under great scrutiny. INS does an extensive background check.
Your criminal record may be a problem for them.
So check first to see if you can obtain the visa !!
Also look into Canada, they may be a bit more understanding.
Good Luck.
Supercalifragilistic
expialidocious
expialidocious
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Criminal records checks - errors!
For those of you applying for jobs, or going through vetting this from the BBC at : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3630971.stm
may be in interest - or concern!
"Nearly 200 people have been wrongly accused by the Criminal Records Bureau of having criminal records.
The names of 193 people were mistakenly linked with convictions held on the police national computer (PNC), BBC Radio Five Live has learned.
In some cases the names of those being vetted by the bureau were similar or identical to those of actual criminals.
In others, the criminals had given someone else's personal details to the authorities to avoid a police record. "
may be in interest - or concern!
"Nearly 200 people have been wrongly accused by the Criminal Records Bureau of having criminal records.
The names of 193 people were mistakenly linked with convictions held on the police national computer (PNC), BBC Radio Five Live has learned.
In some cases the names of those being vetted by the bureau were similar or identical to those of actual criminals.
In others, the criminals had given someone else's personal details to the authorities to avoid a police record. "
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Also from the BBC report;
so not sure if this applies to us as as far as I am aware we all apply to Disclosure Scotland, a separate organisation? Still worrying, but I guess inevitable with any such system. I trust the clear up rate after 'appeal' sorts these sort of problems out................
PP
...The mistakes of the Liverpool-based agency, ....
PP
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If you are worried about this, you can apply to your local police for a Data Protection Act certificate that will show the information that is currently held about you. It costs £10 or so, but if you check now, you might prevent future problems.
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The crimes were petty, one for off roading in a prohibited area and the other for taking a street sign which was hit by a truck on the side of the road to put in my dorm room.
I am wondering if I should go the measure through hiring a lawyer to get these charges expunged.
I am wondering if I should go the measure through hiring a lawyer to get these charges expunged.
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Depends if you gota caution. The full list of offences that will bar you from gaining an airside licence are available on the DfoT's website.
Roadside might come under theft, I dont know....
Worth having a look though. No doubt some kind soul will post the actual link here.
TRon
Roadside might come under theft, I dont know....
Worth having a look though. No doubt some kind soul will post the actual link here.
TRon
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Criminal Record
Hello all,
I'm a PPL pilot with 80 hrs TT and I'm looking to start my ATPL distance learning course some time in February.
Five years ago I was convicted for Drink Driving and also admonished on an Assult / Breach of the peace charge. I was wondering if this would stop an airline employing me?
I'm intending to fund the ATPL myself (flying hours included), so I'm not looking to go through the airline sponsorship route, although I very much doubt that they would choose someone with a past record over someone with no Criminal past! The main worry I have is that an airline would steer clear of a candidate like me, what do you all think?
Looking at it from the point that I was dedicated enough to self sponsor and pass (hopefully), I'm thinking that the airlines may see it as I'm seeing it, or do you think I'm wasting my time?
I'm, like most, completley willing to pay for MCC, type rating etc.
All responses welcome!
Thanks
I'm a PPL pilot with 80 hrs TT and I'm looking to start my ATPL distance learning course some time in February.
Five years ago I was convicted for Drink Driving and also admonished on an Assult / Breach of the peace charge. I was wondering if this would stop an airline employing me?
I'm intending to fund the ATPL myself (flying hours included), so I'm not looking to go through the airline sponsorship route, although I very much doubt that they would choose someone with a past record over someone with no Criminal past! The main worry I have is that an airline would steer clear of a candidate like me, what do you all think?
Looking at it from the point that I was dedicated enough to self sponsor and pass (hopefully), I'm thinking that the airlines may see it as I'm seeing it, or do you think I'm wasting my time?
I'm, like most, completley willing to pay for MCC, type rating etc.
All responses welcome!
Thanks
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