BA pilots 'prepared to strike'?
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Nooooo!
Do you think so?
That's why I've bought 5K worth recently!
Just a coincidence mind you.......
£3.62 and climbing.
William Hill wouldn't give me odds on you guys not striking so this was the next best thing.
Do you think so?
That's why I've bought 5K worth recently!
Just a coincidence mind you.......
£3.62 and climbing.
William Hill wouldn't give me odds on you guys not striking so this was the next best thing.
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Sugden
Erm when I did economics the market rate was related to supply and demand in a free market economy .
The pilot supply market is not a free market economy therefore the term market rate is inappropriate .
I cannot leave my employer as a senior LH Trng Capt and start with another UK employer without becoming a very junior in fact the most junior F/O .
Now the seniority system has advantages and diadvantages for .... oh I give up .
off to skype the stdss I flew with recently .
Erm when I did economics the market rate was related to supply and demand in a free market economy .
The pilot supply market is not a free market economy therefore the term market rate is inappropriate .
I cannot leave my employer as a senior LH Trng Capt and start with another UK employer without becoming a very junior in fact the most junior F/O .
Now the seniority system has advantages and diadvantages for .... oh I give up .
off to skype the stdss I flew with recently .
Last edited by sudden twang; 24th Mar 2006 at 19:37.
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Clearly Dog! That's why LHR crew are all so desperate to transfer to EFLGW!
lol!
No. Just a small trade this time. Obviously, this COULD be risky.
And I certainly wouldn't rely on BA to fund my retirement.
Put my eggs in other baskets a long time ago.
But hey as Tesco like to say "Every little helps"
Hope life is treating you well buddy.
lol!No. Just a small trade this time. Obviously, this COULD be risky.
And I certainly wouldn't rely on BA to fund my retirement.
Put my eggs in other baskets a long time ago.
But hey as Tesco like to say "Every little helps"
Hope life is treating you well buddy.
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Originally Posted by sudden twang
off to skype the stdss I flew with recently
Sadly I sold my shares at the beginning of the company's pension spin campaign figuring it would all end in tears. It certainly seems as if BALPA's anti-spin campaign may have softened the company's opening salvo a little.
Don't think I'll go buying the shares back just yet though.
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From the Press Association this morning.
BA TO INCREASE RETIREMENT AGE
By Alan Jones, PA Industrial Correspondent
British Airways is to increase the retirement age for its pilots and other
workers in a bid to tackle a #1 billion deficit in its pension fund, the airline
announced today.
Union leaders were told that the airline will pay #500 million into the scheme
once the planned changes were accepted.
The current compulsory retirement age for pilots and cabin crew is 55 but BA
plans to increase this to 60.
Chief Executive Willie Walsh said: "This is a solution that will provide
competitive, affordable pensions for the future."
BA TO INCREASE RETIREMENT AGE
By Alan Jones, PA Industrial Correspondent
British Airways is to increase the retirement age for its pilots and other
workers in a bid to tackle a #1 billion deficit in its pension fund, the airline
announced today.
Union leaders were told that the airline will pay #500 million into the scheme
once the planned changes were accepted.
The current compulsory retirement age for pilots and cabin crew is 55 but BA
plans to increase this to 60.
Chief Executive Willie Walsh said: "This is a solution that will provide
competitive, affordable pensions for the future."
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And more...
Mr Walsh said: "These changes are necessary to clear the past deficit and to
contain the amount of future funding needed.
"It means working longer to get a similar annual pension but one that is more
secure.
"This should address the pension problem at British Airways once and for
all."
Mr Walsh said the planned changes will reduce the anticipated deficit in the
pension scheme by #450 million.
"This package of measures is vital if we are to achieve a competitive cost
base, deliver a 10% operating margin, be fit for growth and invest in our
future."
The Transport & General Workers Union, which has 20,000 members at BA, said
the pension rescue plans would mean "more pain" for the workforce.
National officer Brendan Gold said he believed the package of measures could
have been brought forward some time ago to give unions more time to study the
details.
He said injecting #500 million into the scheme only on condition that staff
accept the changes was an "unnecessary touch".
He went on: "If the money was there it should be put in up front to show the
company recognised its responsibilities properly.
"It was no secret that BA's pension funds were in deficit but we still don't
really know if today's measures will be the right ones for our members and for
the scheme."
Mr Walsh said: "These changes are necessary to clear the past deficit and to
contain the amount of future funding needed.
"It means working longer to get a similar annual pension but one that is more
secure.
"This should address the pension problem at British Airways once and for
all."
Mr Walsh said the planned changes will reduce the anticipated deficit in the
pension scheme by #450 million.
"This package of measures is vital if we are to achieve a competitive cost
base, deliver a 10% operating margin, be fit for growth and invest in our
future."
The Transport & General Workers Union, which has 20,000 members at BA, said
the pension rescue plans would mean "more pain" for the workforce.
National officer Brendan Gold said he believed the package of measures could
have been brought forward some time ago to give unions more time to study the
details.
He said injecting #500 million into the scheme only on condition that staff
accept the changes was an "unnecessary touch".
He went on: "If the money was there it should be put in up front to show the
company recognised its responsibilities properly.
"It was no secret that BA's pension funds were in deficit but we still don't
really know if today's measures will be the right ones for our members and for
the scheme."
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From the BA Intranet:
British Airways has unveiled a proposal to clear the near £1 billion past deficit in the New Airways Pension Scheme (NAPS).
The airline has retained a final salary scheme and is proposing that staff work longer with slower pension growth and pensionable pay elements of future pay rises capped at inflation.
The airline says that if the proposals are accepted, it will make a payment of half a billion pounds into NAPS, which together with £350 million it will have paid by the end of the year, will clear the past deficit.
Chief executive Willie Walsh said: "This a shared solution that tackles the deficit while keeping many of the things that people have told us they value in their pension.
"We are not proposing any increase in staff contributions and the pension that people have already earned will be protected.
"The changes to members' future benefits will reduce the anticipated deficit by £450 million. We will also be able to make contributions for future service we can afford.
"This package of measures is vital if we are to achieve a competitive cost base, deliver a 10 per cent operating margin, be fit for growth and invest in our future."
The proposed changes for future service are:
· Working longer
· Slower accrual (the speed at which a pension builds up)
· Inflation capped pensionable pay awards
· Reduced pension growth on retirement
· Shared impact of changes in life expectancy
Chief financial officer Keith Williams said: "When we set out to raise awareness of the deficit in the past few months, people told us they were concerned about the security of their pensions and that a shared solution was the right way forward.
"Our staff also said they wanted to keep a final salary scheme, pay the same amount each month into their pension and protect the pension they've already earned.
"Our proposal sets out to do all these things. We are keeping a final salary scheme while some other companies have abandoned theirs. We're also protecting current pensions with the changes only relevant to future service. And the amount people pay each month won't go up, unless they want it to."
There is a future provision that if people were to live longer than the current expectation, the pension costs would be shared.
The airline is putting forward one proposal but there is still choice available. Employees can choose to retire without working longer and take a smaller pension, save more money towards their pension outside NAPS or move to the airline's defined contribution pension.
The trade unions will be consulted on the changes and the airline will seek agreement from the pension trustees. For detailed information on the proposals, see the special in-depth site on the intranet.
British Airways has unveiled a proposal to clear the near £1 billion past deficit in the New Airways Pension Scheme (NAPS).
The airline has retained a final salary scheme and is proposing that staff work longer with slower pension growth and pensionable pay elements of future pay rises capped at inflation.
The airline says that if the proposals are accepted, it will make a payment of half a billion pounds into NAPS, which together with £350 million it will have paid by the end of the year, will clear the past deficit.
Chief executive Willie Walsh said: "This a shared solution that tackles the deficit while keeping many of the things that people have told us they value in their pension.
"We are not proposing any increase in staff contributions and the pension that people have already earned will be protected.
"The changes to members' future benefits will reduce the anticipated deficit by £450 million. We will also be able to make contributions for future service we can afford.
"This package of measures is vital if we are to achieve a competitive cost base, deliver a 10 per cent operating margin, be fit for growth and invest in our future."
The proposed changes for future service are:
· Working longer
· Slower accrual (the speed at which a pension builds up)
· Inflation capped pensionable pay awards
· Reduced pension growth on retirement
· Shared impact of changes in life expectancy
Chief financial officer Keith Williams said: "When we set out to raise awareness of the deficit in the past few months, people told us they were concerned about the security of their pensions and that a shared solution was the right way forward.
"Our staff also said they wanted to keep a final salary scheme, pay the same amount each month into their pension and protect the pension they've already earned.
"Our proposal sets out to do all these things. We are keeping a final salary scheme while some other companies have abandoned theirs. We're also protecting current pensions with the changes only relevant to future service. And the amount people pay each month won't go up, unless they want it to."
There is a future provision that if people were to live longer than the current expectation, the pension costs would be shared.
The airline is putting forward one proposal but there is still choice available. Employees can choose to retire without working longer and take a smaller pension, save more money towards their pension outside NAPS or move to the airline's defined contribution pension.
The trade unions will be consulted on the changes and the airline will seek agreement from the pension trustees. For detailed information on the proposals, see the special in-depth site on the intranet.
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Story now on BBC News Online:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4836054.stm
----------------------------------------
BA set to raise staff pension age
British Airways has proposed to raise the retirement age for some of its workers in a bid to close a £1bn black hole in its pension scheme.
Under the proposals, the compulsory retirement age for pilots and cabin crew will rise to 60 from 55.
Willie Walsh, BA chief executive said the change "will provide competitive, affordable pensions for the future".
The airline pledged to pay an extra £500m into the pension scheme once the changes have come into force.
More soon.
----------------------------------------
Jordan
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4836054.stm
----------------------------------------
BA set to raise staff pension age
British Airways has proposed to raise the retirement age for some of its workers in a bid to close a £1bn black hole in its pension scheme.
Under the proposals, the compulsory retirement age for pilots and cabin crew will rise to 60 from 55.
Willie Walsh, BA chief executive said the change "will provide competitive, affordable pensions for the future".
The airline pledged to pay an extra £500m into the pension scheme once the changes have come into force.
More soon.
----------------------------------------
Jordan
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Am I missing something here??
Isn't the issue here that BA have promised to pay their staff X amount when they hit retirement age, I the case of most posting here I guess 55, but now it looks like they're moving the goal posts and arent going to deliver for whatever reason, so could it be argued they are in breech of the original contracts these guys signed?
I think the bitching about whether or not certain groups within BA have been paid the market rate, above the market rate or a some have made it known they feel they have been under paid, is a bit of a red herring.
Most of you probably signed up because BA offered a good pension scheme and promised to deliver a decent package on retirement, in my opinion that is part of the salary, the Ts and Cs for staying long term with the company so in changing the rules to keep the bean counters happy BA have welched on a deal.
Not so sure I hold with the "would rather see BA go under" than accept the new terms, sure it's your pay so worth fighting for bt if BA goes under as a result of action surely you will all lose out?
Isn't the issue here that BA have promised to pay their staff X amount when they hit retirement age, I the case of most posting here I guess 55, but now it looks like they're moving the goal posts and arent going to deliver for whatever reason, so could it be argued they are in breech of the original contracts these guys signed?
I think the bitching about whether or not certain groups within BA have been paid the market rate, above the market rate or a some have made it known they feel they have been under paid, is a bit of a red herring.
Most of you probably signed up because BA offered a good pension scheme and promised to deliver a decent package on retirement, in my opinion that is part of the salary, the Ts and Cs for staying long term with the company so in changing the rules to keep the bean counters happy BA have welched on a deal.
Not so sure I hold with the "would rather see BA go under" than accept the new terms, sure it's your pay so worth fighting for bt if BA goes under as a result of action surely you will all lose out?
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Theyve at least grasped the nettle, BA that is. If people have to work to 60 or 65 welcome to the reality of life in this century.
Pity the government didnt do the same when it had the opportunity recently to do the same.
My first post so be kind, please?!
Pity the government didnt do the same when it had the opportunity recently to do the same.
My first post so be kind, please?!
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"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"
Willie has a plan to recruit experienced type-rated pilots - keep the ones he has.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4836054.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4836054.stm
Its so nice to be right for a change!
All through the 90s some of us campaigned for a negotiated increase in the NRA from 55 to 60. BALPA and certain younger elements in the pilot workforce ignored the facts! Now it looks like it will be imposed by the Company with their terms and conditions.
It seems very strange to me that you should now be considering strike action over a situation thet has been apparent to many for a long time. I wish you well with your negotiations but there are a lot more people a lot worse off than those still working for BA.
Now retire to the bunker with my flack jacket and a copy of pensioners news!!
All through the 90s some of us campaigned for a negotiated increase in the NRA from 55 to 60. BALPA and certain younger elements in the pilot workforce ignored the facts! Now it looks like it will be imposed by the Company with their terms and conditions.
It seems very strange to me that you should now be considering strike action over a situation thet has been apparent to many for a long time. I wish you well with your negotiations but there are a lot more people a lot worse off than those still working for BA.
Now retire to the bunker with my flack jacket and a copy of pensioners news!!
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Sooooooooooooooooo.................
Its gone from a £1.4 Billion deficit to a £850 million one.
Arent our management clever.
What else were they not telling the truth about??
PLM
Its gone from a £1.4 Billion deficit to a £850 million one.
Arent our management clever.
What else were they not telling the truth about??
PLM
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It's not a matter of what age BA pilots should retire at ie. 55, 60 or 65.
Simply fact is: at the moment we retire at 55, changing our retirement age amounts to changing our terms and conditions. I'm sure many of us would accept this change for an increase in basic pay.
Why should we sacrifice our terms and conditions (ie. working for another 5 years) for the baggage handlers and check-in staff who have let us down during the last two summers with illegal strikes.
It would be a real shame if the "Official Airline England Football Team" was grounded during this summer's World Cup because of industrial action.
Simply fact is: at the moment we retire at 55, changing our retirement age amounts to changing our terms and conditions. I'm sure many of us would accept this change for an increase in basic pay.
Why should we sacrifice our terms and conditions (ie. working for another 5 years) for the baggage handlers and check-in staff who have let us down during the last two summers with illegal strikes.
It would be a real shame if the "Official Airline England Football Team" was grounded during this summer's World Cup because of industrial action.
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Willie reckons you're not up for a fight
This has little to do with either the pension defecit or NRA. It has all to do with divide and conquer.
A new joiner would be very grateful to get an extra 5 years paid into his/her non NAPS defined contribution scheme.
Very simple solution, get Willie to pay command compensation to each co-pilot just below the command point on the seniority list for every guy that stays on past 55.
If it's 500 then pay 500 SFO's full Captains Salary & all benefits associated with command.
How's the Mondeo Willie?
A new joiner would be very grateful to get an extra 5 years paid into his/her non NAPS defined contribution scheme.
Very simple solution, get Willie to pay command compensation to each co-pilot just below the command point on the seniority list for every guy that stays on past 55.
If it's 500 then pay 500 SFO's full Captains Salary & all benefits associated with command.
How's the Mondeo Willie?
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Originally Posted by PondLifeMan
Sooooooooooooooooo.................
Its gone from a £1.4 Billion deficit to a £850 million one.
Arent our management clever.
What else were they not telling the truth about??
PLM
Its gone from a £1.4 Billion deficit to a £850 million one.
Arent our management clever.
What else were they not telling the truth about??
PLM